MIC on tariffs

Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
4/24/2025 3:16pm
The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that...

The biggest issue people have with the Tariffs is that they are being on and off  and back on.  No clear reasoning behind them. Saying that they will be permanent, then saying they are a tool to negotiate favors from other countries, implying that there is a way around them and or that they will be temporary. Saying there will not be any pause, then days later a pause.  It is more the manor of how they are being applied and some of the insanely high amounts that is the issue. Not just tariffs in general.

In this case, they seem to be used as a tool to manipulate the stock market. Allowing the few people who know what is going on to make $$$$ off some well-timed buying and selling.  As well as a tool to destroy the worlds trust and many alliances with the US. And raise the prices of goods by large amounts.   

 

I hope I'm wrong and this works out in the end. I hope that there is some real plan to reduce costs for consumers like he claimed he could do on day one. The big problem is there are a lot of people who will be unable to wait it out and pay higher prices. And companies will close, people will have hard times, may have to wait a few years to retire, assuming the market bounces back and 401K's get some of the lost money back. 

 

Zycki11 wrote:
Couple things wrong with what you are saying. First, the stock market is not tied to the economy but forward thinking. People were absolutely killing it long...

Couple things wrong with what you are saying. 

First, the stock market is not tied to the economy but forward thinking. People were absolutely killing it long before Trump came in with insider trading.

Second when it comes to your assumptions they are just that and you are implying quite a lot in your thoughts without proof of anything. 

Tariffs are a tool for better negotiating nothing more.


As a day trader and investor I see it from the market side and what your saying simply is inaccurate and doesn’t hold water. 

So yah, of course there has been insider trading forever. So who cares right?  Otherwise, there wouldn't be a term for it. I saw that there are...

So yah, of course there has been insider trading forever. So who cares right?  Otherwise, there wouldn't be a term for it.

 I saw that there are allegations that there has been some insider trading done by a politician close to trump on the news the other day.   

My Dad lost a ton of money from his 401K when the market crashed in 2008. He wasn't able to work long enough to see it recover and retired with almost half of what he had before the crash. I realize that the market ups and downs are not direct reflections of the general economy. But a lot of people use them as indicators. And it sure impacted my Dad's ability to buy stuff. 

 

Trump has been making decisions about the pause of tariffs, or he has said that is why. Based on the market and bond trading.  

Why has the reasoning changed so many times if tariffs are a tool for negotiation?  Couldn't the threat of tariffs have done the same thing without the big downs and ups in the market?  

 

 When they have a different reason for the tariffs to be in place or paused, or raised, etc. every other day, it makes it hard for me to trust that there is a plan. To me it all looks like its reactions to whatever happens and not a well thought out plan. The explanations that are given always changing is sending out a confusing message.   

Everyone lost money in 2008 save the people who betted on the decline and the bankers who paid themselves ridiculous bonuses and salary increases from money the fed printed to bail out the banks. 

Sorry you have negative feelings but you are blending your emotions and what is actually happening. 

The stock market is designed to transfer money from the poor to the wealthy. Unless you understand the game. Timing is the game  

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6
bents
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Fantasy
4/24/2025 3:37pm

American AND Canadian corporations, through free trade agreements crafted over decades moved manufacturing to Asia (and anywhere else if it made economic sense) so that their goods could be made more cheaply, avoiding the fair wages and benefits that would be required to have those goods made in North America. Corporate wealth goes up, middle class jobs disappear-this has been going on for decades and decades. Wealth distribution has been turned upside down. 25% of the wealth in Canada goes to 1% of the population-look at the number of billionaires in your country and the rate that they are increasing. Try to buy MX apparel that was MADE in Canada or the US...as one tiny example. As for inflation, the day after Russia invaded Ukraine, gas prices went up-almost doubled, in a short period of time and boom the race was on-prices skyrocketed because goods need to be moved, so the cost of moving said goods went up. I remember the day when I had to pay 2.00 per litre for gas when inside a month ago I was paying 1.09 per litre. Prior to that invasion, borrowing rates were 1.5% and the economy was humming and all was good.

So now people are under the absolute delusion that tariffs will solve all. Tariffs are a tax, on many of the goods that corporations moved to be made more cheaply elsewhere and now some of you think they are going to shut them down and move back? Okaaaayyyyyy.....the prevailing financial community in the US and world economists are all of the same mind-this chaotic, non-sensical approach to "re-establish" world trade order through tariffs assessed, then removed, then assessed ad nauseum will do nothing of the sort and this is being proven on the daily. Facts still matter.

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2
4/24/2025 3:46pm
RichieW13 wrote:
The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're...

The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're hoping it's good for the world? 

 

I can't imagine a scenario where confusion and inconsistency about tariffs is going to be good for the average American, or the small business owner.  


Businesses can't operate to maximum efficiency if they have no clue what the tariff rate might be (if any) 6 months from now.

 

And apparently, Trump is giving Wall Street executives inside info about upcoming negotiations with India.  Is that good for us?  

https://www.newsbreak.com/mediaite-520570/3977289002772-fox-reporter-sa…

image 1542.png?VersionId=7ldymW.w ld.FS2aUyHwoMGn
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4
4/24/2025 3:50pm

Really excited to see vital solve tarriffs so it can get back to solving blue flags.  

10

The Shop

RichieW13
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4/24/2025 3:52pm
image 1542.png?VersionId=7ldymW.w ld.FS2aUyHwoMGn

Yep, congress should not be able to buy/sell individual stocks while in office.

15
Not hillbilly
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4/24/2025 4:05pm

All over the map. This administration’s decisions, and this discussion’s arguments. Very moto, tho.

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2
4/24/2025 4:10pm
Tim507 wrote:
I appreciate the discussion, truly.Some of you are focused on the on/off nature of tariffs. Fair point. It’s been messy—maybe by design. Confusion can be part...

I appreciate the discussion, truly.

Some of you are focused on the on/off nature of tariffs. Fair point. It’s been messy—maybe by design. Confusion can be part of the reveal.

You’re right to question the inconsistency. But maybe that’s the whole point. If the old system was clean and rational, we wouldn't be having this thread. The enemy—whatever name resonates with you—doesn’t operate with consistency or transparency. So if we don’t like what’s being forced on us... should we, or Trump, not play their game back at them? Trumps style is unorthodox, no argument here!!

Trump didn’t follow the expected script—and that rattled the system. Same with tariffs. They’re not supposed to make sense within the old framework. They’re meant to crack it open.

What if the chaos is the plan?
What if it’s not about controlling markets… but freeing them?
Not about patching the sinking ship… but building a new one beside it?

I’m not here to convince anyone. But I do believe we’re witnessing a shift that’s way bigger than bread, bikes, and the price of boots.

What we choose to see… determines what we help create.
That’s the real economy.

Take a moment to look into what Trump has said about “The Great Awakening.” That phrase isn’t just politics—it’s about us showing up.
Same with “What is coming can’t be stopped.”
That’s not a threat. That’s a promise. And it’s about us, the people.

It takes a worldwide collective effort to create a shift this big.
This isn’t just a U.S. thing. It’s a planetary reset.
A wake-up call for all.

Well said. You sir are a very open minded, optimistic, and unafraid person. You think outside the box. If you are an American, I am proud to have you as my countryman, and I’d be proud to fight beside you if we were ever under threat.

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4/24/2025 4:13pm
jaybasher wrote:
After years of BS unfair tariffs, we offered to negotiate a more fair deal. China flipped us off and walked away. The country whos people are...

After years of BS unfair tariffs, we offered to negotiate a more fair deal. China flipped us off and walked away. The country whos people are willing to suffer discomfort due to tariffs the longest has an advantage. If people in China speak out, they will be run over by a tank on a city street. Here in the US the soft citizens may not have the guts my Grandpa did in WWII. Fuck China.

Amen.

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arebnac
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4/24/2025 4:23pm

Isnt curious how theres two ways of seeing this whole situation and nothing one says about his vision/perspective can change the other's perspective/vision?  Its like... Theres no ""truth"", only interpretations! You can find right and wrong arguments in both 'sides' of the opinions, which is crazy. Maybe 'reasoning' is not real, since you can reach to different conclusions in every discussion. 

HASHTAG PHILOSOPHY HASHTAG HASHTAG

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AussieParaMX
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4/24/2025 4:25pm

Tariffs are simply this — punish Americans with high prices to force them into hard times and ultimately hopefully bring back manufacturing and force labor into sweatshops… 
 

The only reason manufacturing went away was because unions demanded good pay and good working conditions and the capital class went — fuck you we are gonna keep doing sweatshop labour but off shore… notice that all the right wing is anti union… that’s the plan… sweatshops… 12 year olds slaughtering cows… 


How are the cucks for this? 

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11
4/24/2025 4:36pm
Tyler D wrote:
the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to...

the quality of many chinese goods are getting scary good. we're 50 years behind in some categories. post-war boomer corporation party is over gents. time to make up for lost time or we'll be a vassal state with no buying power. 

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and...

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and we are addicted to buying shopping cart loads of cheap shit we don't need every other day at Sprawl Mart. I'm 100% behind President Trump on this.

RichieW13 wrote:
Not true.  As I posted above, The United States is the #2 manufacturing country in the world.Mostly what we manufacture is large and high technology goods...

Not true.  As I posted above, The United States is the #2 manufacturing country in the world.

Mostly what we manufacture is large and high technology goods.  Airplanes, tractors, chemicals, military equipment, etc.

And guess what just became more expensive. E.g parts of the 777 and 787 he’ll even the F-35’s have components made off shore by companies who now have to pay for extra tariffs. 2 nations have expressed their concerns over the cost and the unstableness of American business at the moment and look like cancelling their F-35 purchases. That’s billions out the door since “tariffs” were introduced. This has a knock on effect for the price per airframe of an aircraft now for the American taxpayer. Bottom line is consumer pays no matter what angle you put on it. This can easily be fixed though as Big Donnie once stated “let’s just print more money” I’d love to see manufacturing pulled from Chyna and moved to the USA or even Australia.
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4/24/2025 4:49pm
image 1542.png?VersionId=7ldymW.w ld.FS2aUyHwoMGn
RichieW13 wrote:

Yep, congress should not be able to buy/sell individual stocks while in office.

As long as we both can admit that both sides are equally corrupt. Have to pick the lesser of the two evils. For me personally, I vote to keep more money in my pocket. I can admit Trump could have done better implementing the Tariffs. That is more than I can say for my Biden voting counterparts that refuse to admit any wrong doing.

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6
4/24/2025 6:16pm

“We don’t want the government involved with healthcare!”

“We don’t want the government involved in education!”

“We don’t want government regulations!”

“We don’t want the government mandating we wear a mask or get vaccinated!”

“We want the government involved in trade and making decisions about what we can and cannot buy!”

🤔

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mx617
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4/24/2025 7:00pm
We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and...

We're not behind. We don't make anything here. We either gave away or they stole all the manufacturing knowledge. We've been sold out for decades and we are addicted to buying shopping cart loads of cheap shit we don't need every other day at Sprawl Mart. I'm 100% behind President Trump on this.

In what way is the president responsible for your (or your neighbors) shitty purchasing decisions? 

1
2
4/24/2025 7:08pm
jaybasher wrote:
After years of BS unfair tariffs, we offered to negotiate a more fair deal. China flipped us off and walked away. The country whos people are...

After years of BS unfair tariffs, we offered to negotiate a more fair deal. China flipped us off and walked away. The country whos people are willing to suffer discomfort due to tariffs the longest has an advantage. If people in China speak out, they will be run over by a tank on a city street. Here in the US the soft citizens may not have the guts my Grandpa did in WWII. Fuck China.

China's exports to the US are 2.8% of their GDP, their GDP is growing at 5.4% per year.

China can afford to flip the US off and walk away, in 6 months their GDP will have recovered, Chinese workers will find other jobs.

How many US companies will go under, how many US workers will lose their jobs?

Which country can afford prolonged tariffs?

10
5
dcg141
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4/24/2025 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 7:35pm

No matter how you feel about tariffs a major red flag went up in the bond market. In the week leading up to April 21, U.S. Treasury bonds experienced a significant sell-off, causing yields to rise and bond prices to fall. This was going on while equities were also falling. I've never seen that in decades of investing. Usually during a stock downturn everyone flocks to US treasuries but they were being sold off as fast as stocks were. It showed a really unprecedented lack of confidence in the US as a safe haven for investors. Had it continued....well that's uncharted territory. Absolutely it was triggered by the tariffs. 

14
2
Brad460
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4/24/2025 7:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 7:46pm

A lot of folks love themselves some China communists..those m-fers steal our IP, ignore patents, flood the market with crap and engage in unfair trade..

Many US companies (like mine) are quickly ending sourcing from China..Time to crush them..

Finally an administration with some balls..

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15
TAUTOG
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4/24/2025 8:08pm
arebnac wrote:
Isnt curious how theres two ways of seeing this whole situation and nothing one says about his vision/perspective can change the other's perspective/vision?  Its like... Theres...

Isnt curious how theres two ways of seeing this whole situation and nothing one says about his vision/perspective can change the other's perspective/vision?  Its like... Theres no ""truth"", only interpretations! You can find right and wrong arguments in both 'sides' of the opinions, which is crazy. Maybe 'reasoning' is not real, since you can reach to different conclusions in every discussion. 

HASHTAG PHILOSOPHY HASHTAG HASHTAG

1745550243924271307053520355969

Bro I gotta say this is the "hits blunt" moment I've ever seen on here. And that comes from a place of love hahaha

17455504015661596334877599323390

Kind of like when the band Chicago asked "does anybody really know what time it is?"

1
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WhiskeyRiver
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4/24/2025 8:52pm
dcg141 wrote:
No matter how you feel about tariffs a major red flag went up in the bond market. In the week leading up to April 21, U.S...

No matter how you feel about tariffs a major red flag went up in the bond market. In the week leading up to April 21, U.S. Treasury bonds experienced a significant sell-off, causing yields to rise and bond prices to fall. This was going on while equities were also falling. I've never seen that in decades of investing. Usually during a stock downturn everyone flocks to US treasuries but they were being sold off as fast as stocks were. It showed a really unprecedented lack of confidence in the US as a safe haven for investors. Had it continued....well that's uncharted territory. Absolutely it was triggered by the tariffs. 

It didn’t go that way at first. Once it became obvious that trumps real objective was lower yields, China and other countries started dumping our treasuries as a way to retaliate. It has been very obvious that he did this in a way to cause the most destruction to equities as possible. The government needs lower yields. 

Being in manufacturing, I agree we need to bring back some to the US. The way Trump has went about it is not in our best interest though. Our system has been a ticking time bomb for a long time. People have it in their head that you can’t manufacture here and make profit, but that is simply not true. The best example of this are the Japanese. Japanese autos sold in America are more American than any of the big 3 and they are priced better. Their employees are normally well paid with good benefits as well. You just can’t operate the way a lot of American companies have grown accustomed to. 

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SKlein
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4/24/2025 9:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 9:21pm
RichieW13 wrote:
The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're...

The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're hoping it's good for the world? 

 

I can't imagine a scenario where confusion and inconsistency about tariffs is going to be good for the average American, or the small business owner.  


Businesses can't operate to maximum efficiency if they have no clue what the tariff rate might be (if any) 6 months from now.

 

And apparently, Trump is giving Wall Street executives inside info about upcoming negotiations with India.  Is that good for us?  

https://www.newsbreak.com/mediaite-520570/3977289002772-fox-reporter-sa…

image 1542.png?VersionId=7ldymW.w ld.FS2aUyHwoMGn

[When the 90-day pause kicked in]

image 1545.png?VersionId=tgie4UkfLf2DBsDH1if

It's unfortunate how blatant things have gotten. It's hard to see a world where anyone in power from either side cares to pull the plug on it.

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1
4/24/2025 9:31pm
RichieW13 wrote:
The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're...

The effort some of you make to defend Trump is mesmerizing.  And the goalpost moving.  Originally, tariffs were about what's best for America.  But now you're hoping it's good for the world? 

 

I can't imagine a scenario where confusion and inconsistency about tariffs is going to be good for the average American, or the small business owner.  


Businesses can't operate to maximum efficiency if they have no clue what the tariff rate might be (if any) 6 months from now.

 

And apparently, Trump is giving Wall Street executives inside info about upcoming negotiations with India.  Is that good for us?  

https://www.newsbreak.com/mediaite-520570/3977289002772-fox-reporter-sa…

image 1542.png?VersionId=7ldymW.w ld.FS2aUyHwoMGn
SKlein wrote:
[When the 90-day pause kicked in]It's unfortunate how blatant things have gotten. It's hard to see a world where anyone in power from either side cares...

[When the 90-day pause kicked in]

image 1545.png?VersionId=tgie4UkfLf2DBsDH1if

It's unfortunate how blatant things have gotten. It's hard to see a world where anyone in power from either side cares to pull the plug on it.

A-people-that-elect-corrupt-politicians-imposters-thieves-3963808718
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2
Radical
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4/24/2025 9:32pm

This was explained previously, when the Chinese trolled US consumers...

TbonesPop wrote:
What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This...

What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This is 100% about brining manufacturing back to the US.  A country can't survive and ever thrive by solely being a consumer society.  A country has to make products and manufacture goods.  This is about boosting manufacturing in the USA, which brings higher paying and better jobs for the middle class and lower class Americans.  This is the foundation of what made America a great country.  And by driving manufacturing away from the US over the last 40 years mainly to China, this is what has increased the standard of living in China and boosted their economy.  This is all about driving businesses to manufacture in the USA, brining higher paying jobs, and sustaining the American economy long term.  It's short term pain, for long term gain.

And, it's working.  Our company is getting many new RFQs for equipment solely made in the USA.  My only complaint is that we are having problems sourcing some components here in the US - that's how bad things have gotten with respect to buying american made components.  We simply can't find what we need in some cases and have to go outside the US.  I couldn't give two squirts of piss about the tariff price on the components we have to source outside the US.  The overall impact on the price of our products are negligible.  We just can't get the parts we need.

2-3 Years down the road, the USA will b thriving with growth this country hasn't seen in over 50 years.

 

And then there are the people out there that think Trump and Elon Musk are actually stupid.  Ya, 2 men who have built their businesses into empires worth billions, one of whom is landing rockets returning from space - what other entity (including NASA) has accomplished that?  Musk went up and rescued astronauts from space NASA was trying to bring back for 9 fucking months and couldn't get it done.  Elon got it done in 3 days.  If you all are so damn smart and its so easy, why isn't your business worth billions?

mtbkris2 wrote:
The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like...

The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like china already have the means, infrastructure, labor, economies of scale and and know-how that we could not compete. 

China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.

The real goal is to get rid of most of the tariffs on our goods, paving the way for American products to have a market internationally.

The other goal is to force China to play by the same rules as every other nation on earth.  Right now there are 2 sets of rules.  1 for China (no rules), 1 for the rest of us.

We can't compete with China with everything.  That's OK.  We can compete on many products.  As Robots and robotics do more and more of the production, lower wages in China won't be as much of an advantage.

The other thing I've read is that China's economy can't thrive without the U.S. market.  It's in both country's best interest to do a fair trade deal.  That's what I believe we'll get.

Also, it's great to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. for multiple reasons.

1. We should not every allow ourselves to be dependent on any other nation for critical products like medicine, and what's needed for our military to keep us safe.

2.  Not everyone desires, or is wired to do engineering or "White Collar" work.  We need more good blue collar jobs.

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Radical
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San Diego, CA, USA
4/24/2025 9:55pm
Tariffs are simply this — punish Americans with high prices to force them into hard times and ultimately hopefully bring back manufacturing and force labor into...

Tariffs are simply this — punish Americans with high prices to force them into hard times and ultimately hopefully bring back manufacturing and force labor into sweatshops… 
 

The only reason manufacturing went away was because unions demanded good pay and good working conditions and the capital class went — fuck you we are gonna keep doing sweatshop labour but off shore… notice that all the right wing is anti union… that’s the plan… sweatshops… 12 year olds slaughtering cows… 


How are the cucks for this? 

No one I know wants anything other than fair wages.  No one wants sweatshops, or kids working on things.

We should've required all nations, including China that want to sell product into the U.S. to meet quality of life, and environmental requirements.

The unions want more than good wages and working conditions.  They want $80 an hour for a $40 skill.  Then $80 isn't enough.

Profit sharing is a different issue. That needs to be balanced too.  More on that another time.

In 5 years, delivery drivers for UPS will be paid $170,000 per year, because of their union being too greedy.

$170k as a delivery driver?  That's freaking ridiculous.  That's more than most engineers make.  They work hard, but that is not an $85/hour skill.

It will either force UPS to replace most all of them with robots, or cause them to go out of business.  That's the power, and greed of unions.

If any of us want to make more money, we need to learn higher paying skills.

I'm a firm believer that a $50 skill should pay $50, not $30, and not $70.  And that applies to people overseas as well.  There are going to be wage differences based on the cost of living in that area, but we shouldn't be buying products only on price, if those countries are using slave labor.

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Darrin Willis
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4/24/2025 10:01pm

Mike Rowe on a podcast today said there are 482000 jobs unfilled in the manufacturing sector.  Let that sink in for a minute. 

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mx617
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4/24/2025 10:31pm
Radical wrote:
China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.The real goal...

China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.

The real goal is to get rid of most of the tariffs on our goods, paving the way for American products to have a market internationally.

The other goal is to force China to play by the same rules as every other nation on earth.  Right now there are 2 sets of rules.  1 for China (no rules), 1 for the rest of us.

We can't compete with China with everything.  That's OK.  We can compete on many products.  As Robots and robotics do more and more of the production, lower wages in China won't be as much of an advantage.

The other thing I've read is that China's economy can't thrive without the U.S. market.  It's in both country's best interest to do a fair trade deal.  That's what I believe we'll get.

Also, it's great to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. for multiple reasons.

1. We should not every allow ourselves to be dependent on any other nation for critical products like medicine, and what's needed for our military to keep us safe.

2.  Not everyone desires, or is wired to do engineering or "White Collar" work.  We need more good blue collar jobs.

The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.

This is just flat out wrong.  The numbers from his chart show what tariff would be required to achieve trade parity. Not what other countries are actually charging.  And that completely ignores the reality that trade parity is impossible outside of the occasional coincidence because country A may or may not have the thing that country B wants to buy, and vice versa. 

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1
dcg141
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4/24/2025 10:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 10:51pm
dcg141 wrote:
No matter how you feel about tariffs a major red flag went up in the bond market. In the week leading up to April 21, U.S...

No matter how you feel about tariffs a major red flag went up in the bond market. In the week leading up to April 21, U.S. Treasury bonds experienced a significant sell-off, causing yields to rise and bond prices to fall. This was going on while equities were also falling. I've never seen that in decades of investing. Usually during a stock downturn everyone flocks to US treasuries but they were being sold off as fast as stocks were. It showed a really unprecedented lack of confidence in the US as a safe haven for investors. Had it continued....well that's uncharted territory. Absolutely it was triggered by the tariffs. 

It didn’t go that way at first. Once it became obvious that trumps real objective was lower yields, China and other countries started dumping our treasuries...

It didn’t go that way at first. Once it became obvious that trumps real objective was lower yields, China and other countries started dumping our treasuries as a way to retaliate. It has been very obvious that he did this in a way to cause the most destruction to equities as possible. The government needs lower yields. 

Being in manufacturing, I agree we need to bring back some to the US. The way Trump has went about it is not in our best interest though. Our system has been a ticking time bomb for a long time. People have it in their head that you can’t manufacture here and make profit, but that is simply not true. The best example of this are the Japanese. Japanese autos sold in America are more American than any of the big 3 and they are priced better. Their employees are normally well paid with good benefits as well. You just can’t operate the way a lot of American companies have grown accustomed to. 

But at the end of the day the yield shot up 3.9% on 10 year bond when movements of 0.2% in either direction are considered a big deal. You think our debt is crazy now it was getting ready to spiral out of control. Not to mention what would happen to already high interest rates on consumers and businesses alike. What everyone needs to realize is there are far reaching unintended real consequences when you use tariffs like blunt instrument and not a surgical knife. Tariffs used with some strategy can and have been used with great success. No one is really talking much about what happened with treasury bonds because its not very interesting content but things got very close to spinning out of control and still could. 

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4/24/2025 11:05pm
TbonesPop wrote:
What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This...

What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This is 100% about brining manufacturing back to the US.  A country can't survive and ever thrive by solely being a consumer society.  A country has to make products and manufacture goods.  This is about boosting manufacturing in the USA, which brings higher paying and better jobs for the middle class and lower class Americans.  This is the foundation of what made America a great country.  And by driving manufacturing away from the US over the last 40 years mainly to China, this is what has increased the standard of living in China and boosted their economy.  This is all about driving businesses to manufacture in the USA, brining higher paying jobs, and sustaining the American economy long term.  It's short term pain, for long term gain.

And, it's working.  Our company is getting many new RFQs for equipment solely made in the USA.  My only complaint is that we are having problems sourcing some components here in the US - that's how bad things have gotten with respect to buying american made components.  We simply can't find what we need in some cases and have to go outside the US.  I couldn't give two squirts of piss about the tariff price on the components we have to source outside the US.  The overall impact on the price of our products are negligible.  We just can't get the parts we need.

2-3 Years down the road, the USA will b thriving with growth this country hasn't seen in over 50 years.

 

And then there are the people out there that think Trump and Elon Musk are actually stupid.  Ya, 2 men who have built their businesses into empires worth billions, one of whom is landing rockets returning from space - what other entity (including NASA) has accomplished that?  Musk went up and rescued astronauts from space NASA was trying to bring back for 9 fucking months and couldn't get it done.  Elon got it done in 3 days.  If you all are so damn smart and its so easy, why isn't your business worth billions?

mtbkris2 wrote:
The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like...

The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like china already have the means, infrastructure, labor, economies of scale and and know-how that we could not compete. 

Radical wrote:
China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.The real goal...

China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.

The real goal is to get rid of most of the tariffs on our goods, paving the way for American products to have a market internationally.

The other goal is to force China to play by the same rules as every other nation on earth.  Right now there are 2 sets of rules.  1 for China (no rules), 1 for the rest of us.

We can't compete with China with everything.  That's OK.  We can compete on many products.  As Robots and robotics do more and more of the production, lower wages in China won't be as much of an advantage.

The other thing I've read is that China's economy can't thrive without the U.S. market.  It's in both country's best interest to do a fair trade deal.  That's what I believe we'll get.

Also, it's great to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. for multiple reasons.

1. We should not every allow ourselves to be dependent on any other nation for critical products like medicine, and what's needed for our military to keep us safe.

2.  Not everyone desires, or is wired to do engineering or "White Collar" work.  We need more good blue collar jobs.

"The other thing I've read is that China's economy can't thrive without the U.S. market."

You need to find better sources of facts, China's exports to the US are 2.8% of their GDP, their GDP is growing at 5.4% per year, in 6 months their GDP will have recovered, they will be fine without the US market.

The US economy can't thrive without Chinese Imports.

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4/24/2025 11:13pm
TbonesPop wrote:
What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This...

What the clown in the video doesn't understand is, this isn't a game about who pays the tariffs or the fact that prices go up.  This is 100% about brining manufacturing back to the US.  A country can't survive and ever thrive by solely being a consumer society.  A country has to make products and manufacture goods.  This is about boosting manufacturing in the USA, which brings higher paying and better jobs for the middle class and lower class Americans.  This is the foundation of what made America a great country.  And by driving manufacturing away from the US over the last 40 years mainly to China, this is what has increased the standard of living in China and boosted their economy.  This is all about driving businesses to manufacture in the USA, brining higher paying jobs, and sustaining the American economy long term.  It's short term pain, for long term gain.

And, it's working.  Our company is getting many new RFQs for equipment solely made in the USA.  My only complaint is that we are having problems sourcing some components here in the US - that's how bad things have gotten with respect to buying american made components.  We simply can't find what we need in some cases and have to go outside the US.  I couldn't give two squirts of piss about the tariff price on the components we have to source outside the US.  The overall impact on the price of our products are negligible.  We just can't get the parts we need.

2-3 Years down the road, the USA will b thriving with growth this country hasn't seen in over 50 years.

 

And then there are the people out there that think Trump and Elon Musk are actually stupid.  Ya, 2 men who have built their businesses into empires worth billions, one of whom is landing rockets returning from space - what other entity (including NASA) has accomplished that?  Musk went up and rescued astronauts from space NASA was trying to bring back for 9 fucking months and couldn't get it done.  Elon got it done in 3 days.  If you all are so damn smart and its so easy, why isn't your business worth billions?

mtbkris2 wrote:
The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like...

The US greatest asset in the modern world is our intellectual capital. Moving back to a manufacturing economy is a literal step backwards, and countries like china already have the means, infrastructure, labor, economies of scale and and know-how that we could not compete. 

Radical wrote:
China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.The real goal...

China steals Intellectual Property.  The 10% tariffs are probably here to stay.  The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods.

The real goal is to get rid of most of the tariffs on our goods, paving the way for American products to have a market internationally.

The other goal is to force China to play by the same rules as every other nation on earth.  Right now there are 2 sets of rules.  1 for China (no rules), 1 for the rest of us.

We can't compete with China with everything.  That's OK.  We can compete on many products.  As Robots and robotics do more and more of the production, lower wages in China won't be as much of an advantage.

The other thing I've read is that China's economy can't thrive without the U.S. market.  It's in both country's best interest to do a fair trade deal.  That's what I believe we'll get.

Also, it's great to bring back manufacturing to the U.S. for multiple reasons.

1. We should not every allow ourselves to be dependent on any other nation for critical products like medicine, and what's needed for our military to keep us safe.

2.  Not everyone desires, or is wired to do engineering or "White Collar" work.  We need more good blue collar jobs.

"The rest are half what other countries are charging on our goods."

Really?

There were free trade agreements between the US and Australia, Bahrain, Central America-Dominican Republic, Chile, Israel, Jordan, Korea, Morocco and Oman. Zero tariffs, but the US has placed tariffs on all of these countries, even the ones the US has trade surpluses with.

But Russia doesn't get tariffed!

 

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4
DaveNoones
Posts
199
Joined
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Location
Edwardsville, IL, USA
4/25/2025 1:28am
lumpy790 wrote:
Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

Motorcycle Industry Council on tariffs. 

If you work in the USA’s MC Industry you know who the MIC is.

https://www.micsymposium.com/_files/ugd/5e5627_cb8a95c3588c4c7d9031812fca110e91.pdf

IMG 1236 1.jpeg?VersionId=H7IQKYto7TaBFvFQaB8Buiz

Trump’s Tariffs Are Not Your Great-Grandfather’s Protectionism

The usual chorus of critics has returned to form. As President Trump pushes ahead with a sweeping new round of tariffs, pundits, professors, and corporate lobbyists are once again declaring that America is veering into the ditch of economic ignorance. Their refrain is familiar: tariffs will stifle innovation, protect inefficient monopolies, and reward corporate rent-seekers.

But something is off. If Trump’s tariffs are such a favor to entrenched business interests, why are those very businesses sounding the alarm? Why are they slashing forecasts, pulling guidance, and getting punished in the stock market? And if the tariffs were truly shielding corporate America from competition, why are valuations collapsing instead of soaring?


According to a recent survey by Bank of America, the sentiment among corporate executives hasn’t been this gloomy since the financial crisis. The ratio of positive to negative comments on macroeconomic conditions during this earnings season is on track to be the worst since 2009. Companies that cut guidance are being punished severely, and many are opting to say nothing at all—a developing “information vacuum” reminiscent of the early pandemic. Nearly 27 percent of S&P 500 firms have cut their guidance for 2025; only nine percent have raised it. Automakers, in particular, have led the retreat.

This is not what rent-seeking looks like. What this suggests is a profound recalibration underway in the U.S. economy—not to insulate firms from competition, but to compel 
them to restructure their cost bases, reorient their supply chains, and shift value creation back inside American borders

Trump’s Tariffs Will Not Stifle Innovation

Critics also love to argue that tariffs will dampen innovation. But is that how innovation works in the United States today? Does anyone expect Google, Netflix, or Moderna to stop building world-changing products just because there are tariffs on imported goods? Hardly. These companies innovate because of domestic dynamism, competition, intellectual property protection, and access to capital—not because of open borders for imported washing machines or steel.

Even Apple—which does rely heavily on imports like the iPhone to enhance its bottom line—seems unlikely to cease innovating simply because tariffs may make other imported phones more expensive. It does not seem remotely plausible to argue that Apple would not have produced its paradigm-shifting smartphones or its tablets and laptops if there had been tariffs in place.

Or take carmakers. Traditionally, auto tariffs were seen as protecting domestic monopolies or oligopolies and therefore encouraging automakers to be “fat and lazy.” While this might have been true in the U.S. before the 1970s or in many European countries in the aftermath of the Second World War—where consumer choice was limited and national governments actively promoted national champions like Renault or Peugeot—it’s not true of America today. We have 20 different companies that operate 55 light assembly plants across the United States. You could ban imported cars altogether and there would still be vigorous domestic competition.

If anything, tariffs may enhance innovation by increasing the incentive to produce at home, improve productivity, and reduce over-reliance on foreign suppliers. In critical sectors like semiconductors, energy technology, and biomanufacturing, tariffs are acting less like crutches for old industries and more like catalysts for new strategic investment.

The model economists use to argue for tariffs as depressing innovation and competition typically begins with the assumption of a small, open economy that has little domestic competition. If you enlarge the economy and include vigorous competition by domestic producers, the classic case against tariffs falls apart. In other words, the map is not the territory; and when you apply tariffs to the actual territory of the U.S. economy, the results are quite different than the models predict.

Even the stock market’s reaction bolsters this view. The S&P 500 has fallen nearly 15 percent since February. If tariffs were a giveaway to big business, equity values would be rising in anticipation of protected profits. Instead, markets are adjusting to the fact that margins may shrink as companies invest more at home and pass fewer costs onto consumers. That’s not corporate rent-seeking. That’s a shift of power from capital to labor, from global supply chains to domestic production.

For decades, the dominant economic consensus treated tariffs as the first step on a road to decline. But the real story in 2025 is this: tariffs are not insulating America from the world. They are forcing America’s largest corporations to stop relying on the world and start reinvesting in America. And they are forcing other countries to open their markets to U.S. goods And for once, that looks like a policy whose benefits might flow not to Wall Street, but to the people who actually make things.


 

 

4
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Tim507
Posts
3484
Joined
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Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
4/25/2025 4:39am

I’ve read through many of your replies, and honestly—thank you. Whether in agreement or not, the discussion shows how awake people are becoming to the deeper mechanics behind this global shift.

Yes, GLOBAL SHIFT—that’s the big one.

The reference to The Great Awakening and What is Coming Can’t Be Stopped is more than a slogan. It’s a rallying point. And in my opinion, something we should each take time to understand. A united Collective Effort can change the paradigm.

Take a moment and check out this idea:
🔗 The 100th Monkey Effect – A Collective Consciousness Tipping Point   https://www.100monkey.co.uk/the-100th-monkey-effect-explained/


Let that concept simmer—you might be surprised where it leads.

Here’s what’s clear to me:

This isn’t just about tariffs. It’s not about one leader or one policy. It’s about pressure—being applied across systems, nations, and industries—to expose what’s been hidden and unsustainable for too long.

These systems have been used to manipulate populations for the gain of others and the exploitation of us.

Some of that pressure looks chaotic. Some of it looks unfair.
But what if the system wasn’t broken...
What if it was working exactly as designed—just not for us?

And what if what we’re seeing now… isn’t a breakdown…
But a breakout?

Everyone sees the pieces differently. That’s good. That’s how you deprogram a population—through friction, not silence.

Yes—deprogram. Let that sink in. (Keep an open mind.)

So if you’re feeling the discomfort, the inconsistency, or even the absurdity—maybe that means it’s working.

The old world relied on our confusion.
The new one will be built by our clarity, and the acceptance that we can change this.

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