Anstie just got done dirty by the AMA

kage173 wrote:

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?The whole thing comes down to the timing...

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?

The whole thing comes down to the timing of throwing the flag, not what happens once the flag is thrown. That's what everyone is upset about. 

MxAddic wrote:

Every time there is a red flag the leader gets robbed. Especially a restart...Nothing new under the sun as they say. Normally the rider is unable...

Every time there is a red flag the leader gets robbed. Especially a restart...

Nothing new under the sun as they say. Normally the rider is unable to pass..This time he did. It's on Max, not the AMA. Get over it.

First they bitch if they don't throw the red flag now they bitch when they do.

Kyzer138 wrote:

Tell me how he got screwed? Rules are rules, he was the first one in line on the staggered start and couldn’t hold off Kitchen.It is...

Tell me how he got screwed? Rules are rules, he was the first one in line on the staggered start and couldn’t hold off Kitchen.

It is what it is, does suck for Max though at the end of the day 

kage173 wrote:

OK, what are the rules on WHEN they call the red flag? Is it the second that the medical crew ask for it? I'm sure they...

OK, what are the rules on WHEN they call the red flag? Is it the second that the medical crew ask for it? I'm sure they had a talk about it before they threw it. That's what matters here, not what the rules are once the red flag is thrown. 

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

In what world is 7 seconds left of a 16 minute race not > 90%? The math is not mathing. AMA is a joke. Unbelievable. 

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

In what world is 7 seconds left of a 16 minute race not > 90%? The math is not mathing. AMA is a joke. Unbelievable. 

Kyzer138 wrote:

90% rule is gone bud 

kage173 wrote:

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?The whole thing comes down to the timing...

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?

The whole thing comes down to the timing of throwing the flag, not what happens once the flag is thrown. That's what everyone is upset about. 

MxAddic wrote:

There would have been two full laps of racing had they not thrown it. The guy is half out on the track and it looks like...

There would have been two full laps of racing had they not thrown it. The guy is half out on the track and it looks like somebody took a can opener to his face.You have no idea if he has a skull fracture or brain bleed. I don't have a problem throwing the flag to conduct proper extraction. Can you imagine the outrage if they would not have or dragged him off the track with something seriously wrong. I can.

kage173 wrote:

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?The whole thing comes down to the timing...

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?

The whole thing comes down to the timing of throwing the flag, not what happens once the flag is thrown. That's what everyone is upset about. 

Tyler D wrote:

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved...

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved the integrity of the race. Arguably, doing so would be SAFER because of the risk of a shootout at 28 min of hard racing. Rules arent the whole story. There IS no rule stating WHEN a red flag must be thrown;it's purely discretionary. Therefore, dependent rules become somewhat sus and open to exploitation abuse or just misuse. 

ThatOneMXGuy wrote:

In what world is 7 seconds left of a 16 minute race not > 90%? The math is not mathing. AMA is a joke. Unbelievable. 

kage173 wrote:

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?The whole thing comes down to the timing...

Wait a minute.  Youve been all over this forum screaming that rules are rules. But now it's situation dependent?

The whole thing comes down to the timing of throwing the flag, not what happens once the flag is thrown. That's what everyone is upset about. 

Tyler D wrote:

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved...

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved the integrity of the race. Arguably, doing so would be SAFER because of the risk of a shootout at 28 min of hard racing. Rules arent the whole story. There IS no rule stating WHEN a red flag must be thrown;it's purely discretionary. Therefore, dependent rules become somewhat sus and open to exploitation abuse or just misuse. 

Radical wrote:

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs...

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs to stop, they call it.

The AMA officials are in a tough spot here because they know how much time is left, but they aren't medical professionals.  So, if they don't accept the medical crew's call to stop the race, then they're opening themselves up for liability should the rider get injured worse, or die because of the delay.

Besides, if they did wait 7 seconds last night  for the clock to expire, then how would that be fair to everyone except Max, who would miss out on passing opportunities on that last lap?

I don't always agree with AMA actions, but in this case, with these rules in place, I believe they called it correctly.

As someone else recommended, rather than reimplement the 90% rule, I'm in favor of spacing out the top 5 or 10 by X feet for every second they were ahead of the previous rider. And, if the placement would be on the upside of a jump, if it's a tabletop place them with the back of the rear tire 1 foot past the start of the flat. For non table tops, place them at the bottom of the downside of the jump.

The locations would be easy as long as you position riders beginning with the last rider, then work toward the first rider.

flackracing wrote:

90% is the old rule. What the TV had on the screen last week was incorrect.

Tyler D wrote:

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved...

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved the integrity of the race. Arguably, doing so would be SAFER because of the risk of a shootout at 28 min of hard racing. Rules arent the whole story. There IS no rule stating WHEN a red flag must be thrown;it's purely discretionary. Therefore, dependent rules become somewhat sus and open to exploitation abuse or just misuse. 

Radical wrote:

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs...

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs to stop, they call it.

The AMA officials are in a tough spot here because they know how much time is left, but they aren't medical professionals.  So, if they don't accept the medical crew's call to stop the race, then they're opening themselves up for liability should the rider get injured worse, or die because of the delay.

Besides, if they did wait 7 seconds last night  for the clock to expire, then how would that be fair to everyone except Max, who would miss out on passing opportunities on that last lap?

I don't always agree with AMA actions, but in this case, with these rules in place, I believe they called it correctly.

As someone else recommended, rather than reimplement the 90% rule, I'm in favor of spacing out the top 5 or 10 by X feet for every second they were ahead of the previous rider. And, if the placement would be on the upside of a jump, if it's a tabletop place them with the back of the rear tire 1 foot past the start of the flat. For non table tops, place them at the bottom of the downside of the jump.

The locations would be easy as long as you position riders beginning with the last rider, then work toward the first rider.

scott_nz wrote:

with how soon the riders cross the start  in some tracks, i dont think spacing riders is always possible, so writing a rule to sort that...

with how soon the riders cross the start  in some tracks, i dont think spacing riders is always possible, so writing a rule to sort that is not practiable, 

i presume the 90% rule was written for clarity, its pretty easy to interpret when the clock is up, and when its not,

its part of all motorsports,  red and full course yellows compress the feild, 

MxAddic wrote:

Every time there is a red flag the leader gets robbed. Especially a restart...Nothing new under the sun as they say. Normally the rider is unable...

Every time there is a red flag the leader gets robbed. Especially a restart...

Nothing new under the sun as they say. Normally the rider is unable to pass..This time he did. It's on Max, not the AMA. Get over it.

First they bitch if they don't throw the red flag now they bitch when they do.

Magoofan wrote:

Nothing wrong with being safe and throwing a red flag....I've got no issue with that.They need to at least put them back on the track with...

Nothing wrong with being safe and throwing a red flag....I've got no issue with that.

They need to at least put them back on the track with the same spacing (in this case, 7 seconds)...let's say the first 10 positions.    How hard could that be. 

 

Tyler D wrote:

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved...

The issue is, an official had the discretion to wait 7 seconds which, on balance, would have not been a safety detriment and would have preserved the integrity of the race. Arguably, doing so would be SAFER because of the risk of a shootout at 28 min of hard racing. Rules arent the whole story. There IS no rule stating WHEN a red flag must be thrown;it's purely discretionary. Therefore, dependent rules become somewhat sus and open to exploitation abuse or just misuse. 

Radical wrote:

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs...

I'm thinking that the medical crew doesn't watch the race clock at all.  They're focused on the rider.  If and when they determine the race needs to stop, they call it.

The AMA officials are in a tough spot here because they know how much time is left, but they aren't medical professionals.  So, if they don't accept the medical crew's call to stop the race, then they're opening themselves up for liability should the rider get injured worse, or die because of the delay.

Besides, if they did wait 7 seconds last night  for the clock to expire, then how would that be fair to everyone except Max, who would miss out on passing opportunities on that last lap?

I don't always agree with AMA actions, but in this case, with these rules in place, I believe they called it correctly.

As someone else recommended, rather than reimplement the 90% rule, I'm in favor of spacing out the top 5 or 10 by X feet for every second they were ahead of the previous rider. And, if the placement would be on the upside of a jump, if it's a tabletop place them with the back of the rear tire 1 foot past the start of the flat. For non table tops, place them at the bottom of the downside of the jump.

The locations would be easy as long as you position riders beginning with the last rider, then work toward the first rider.

scott_nz wrote:

with how soon the riders cross the start  in some tracks, i dont think spacing riders is always possible, so writing a rule to sort that...

with how soon the riders cross the start  in some tracks, i dont think spacing riders is always possible, so writing a rule to sort that is not practiable, 

i presume the 90% rule was written for clarity, its pretty easy to interpret when the clock is up, and when its not,

its part of all motorsports,  red and full course yellows compress the feild, 

APLMAN99 wrote:

The 90% rule made sense when the races were a set number of laps. 20 laps x 90% = 18 laps. With races now being based on...

The 90% rule made sense when the races were a set number of laps. 20 laps x 90% = 18 laps. 

With races now being based on time, there really isn’t a sure way to determine when 90% of the race is done. For example, the leader could have a 30 second lead over 2nd place, who could have a 20 second lead over 3rd. Both the first and second place riders could make big mistakes and crash out after the ‘time’ runs out, and that could lengthen the race by close to a minute. 

The AMA actually followed their rule book on this one. 

APLMAN99 wrote:

The 90% rule made sense when the races were a set number of laps. 20 laps x 90% = 18 laps. With races now being based on...

The 90% rule made sense when the races were a set number of laps. 20 laps x 90% = 18 laps. 

With races now being based on time, there really isn’t a sure way to determine when 90% of the race is done. For example, the leader could have a 30 second lead over 2nd place, who could have a 20 second lead over 3rd. Both the first and second place riders could make big mistakes and crash out after the ‘time’ runs out, and that could lengthen the race by close to a minute. 

The AMA actually followed their rule book on this one. 

MxAddic wrote:

Yeah cuz it's so hard to figure 90% of X minutes.

Now maybe somebody got in the AMA's ear and had the rule changed. 

newmexico wrote:

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never...

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never be a fan of Max Anstie. Max is an older man, he acts worse than any rookie I’ve seen. 

TK40_FC wrote:

So youre an employee, a top performer in your group, and your boss comes up to you and says, " i hear you dont want to...

So youre an employee, a top performer in your group, and your boss comes up to you and says, " i hear you dont want to succeed." This despite your obvious performance and current success. 

But he doesnt say this to your face,  but instead on a phone call,  while you are the one actually at work. 

Bobby took a comment from max out of context, ignored the actual results from his performance, then tried to question his motivation.

Max wanted to send a message and he damn sure did it. On the track and off. 

newmexico wrote:

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never...

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never be a fan of Max Anstie. Max is an older man, he acts worse than any rookie I’ve seen. 

BristolBlue wrote:

Levi should have done the honourable thing and let Max win (especially this late in the race) it would have been good sportsmanship.

Max deserved the win.

newmexico wrote:

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never...

If my employee told me what to do and not to call him anymore…….. I wouldn’t call him and let the secretary release him! Will never be a fan of Max Anstie. Max is an older man, he acts worse than any rookie I’ve seen. 

TK40_FC wrote:

So youre an employee, a top performer in your group, and your boss comes up to you and says, " i hear you dont want to...

So youre an employee, a top performer in your group, and your boss comes up to you and says, " i hear you dont want to succeed." This despite your obvious performance and current success. 

But he doesnt say this to your face,  but instead on a phone call,  while you are the one actually at work. 

Bobby took a comment from max out of context, ignored the actual results from his performance, then tried to question his motivation.

Max wanted to send a message and he damn sure did it. On the track and off. 

RG437 wrote:

The success of the team is baffling given the apparent intelligence of the owner 

StillSmokin wrote:

Staggered restart: 1ft spacing per second of differential at time of red flag - Max in front, Kitchen 7ft back and so on and so on...

Staggered restart: 1ft spacing per second of differential at time of red flag - Max in front, Kitchen 7ft back and so on and so on. No white line and they all go at the same time on green flag, passing ok. 

CrGuy2T wrote:

I've came to the conclusion that some of y'all hide your own easter eggs....