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In amateur racing, doesn't it make more sense to do classes based on rider speed, not the bike?
I own a 250 4T and 250 2T as well as the wife's 350 4T. I never really timed it out, but I swear I am faster on the 4T. Less wheelspin, better throttle to rear wheel connection, more "planted". So in the 250 class, I really don't think equalizing the displacement rule would change anything, 450 class might be a different matter though. I remember KTM 380s, Husky 390s, RM 370s, always thought that was a killer engine package. That being said the 2T is gobs more fun and if Kawi makes a 300 2T I will buy one.
Well, essentially no direct factory support and some type of budget cap. The "typical" situation would be single rider efforts, riders who are directly sponsored by companies, but not directly by manufacturers (except for perhaps discounts or on their contingency program). It is pretty easy to define. The only wiggle room are teams who still get called privateers.... Rock River Yamaha is not a privateer effort.
Jeff Ward won the 85 title on a Kawasaki SR250 factory bike.
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My mistake, Johnson won the 1984 Motocross Championship on a production based bike.
“Husqvarna’s 250cc two-stroke motocross bike cranks out a few more horsepower than its 250F sibling and slightly less torque than its 450cc thumper counterpart.”
https://www.facebook.com/share/15Cg1V1GgY/?mibextid=wwXIfr
What, Santa,s not real?
Nice wish. How do you plan to get this rule change to happen?
I wouldn't be surprised if it looks exactly like this with green plastic.
I feel like the guys pushing for this rule have not ridden a 250f since 2004. It would be pointless. I would take the four stroke 100 out of 100 times for strictly MX, and I grew up on two strokes. Peak power means diddly squat when it only produces said power for a few hundred RPM's. The amateur side did this years ago and four strokes still rule the roost.
The 250 2t won in Canada when they were evenly matched up. 250 2t 53hp vs 250F 47hp roughly.
Funny DC will say Honda will take their ball and go home if this is allowed, while tomorrow there will be no factory supported Honda on the 450 line…come to think of it there isn’t a 250 in the East either???Hmm, what’s the threat again???
I, for one, would be very surprised if Kawasaki produced a Yamaha DT230 copy motor with KTM copy plastics
Worked for pit bikes. Lower point of entry financially. Super fun. Accessible. More people got involved. This has happened across Motorsports. Puch scooters. Old Harley’s. Grom’s
Not all an excellent example, but allowing the middle class affordance definitely helps the sport. We’re like, 70-80% of the American population.
I remember that..It was also 10 years ago. Have the more recent champs been on two-strokes?
No, because they changed the rule after Kaven Benoit’s second title to disallow 2 strokes for guys who are actually competitive.
Benoit won his first MX2 title choosing 2T or 4T based on track. In response, CMRC changed rules to force riders to choose one bike through whole series and also 2T must run stock engine while 4T mods were still allowed. Kaven chose the stock 2T to defend and won again. CMRC then further tightened up the rules to disallow riders (like Kaven) who had ever finished top 5 or non-Canadian citizens from running even a stock 2T, effectively eliminating the option for nearly all serious championship competitors.
I find it a bit amusing here. The 4 stroke guys are like, it wouldn't matter, the 4 stroke is the best and can't be beat. Then, when people point out facts and history, chirp chirp chirp. Then on the 2 stroke side, they always hold out hope they'll get cc for cc. Never gonna happen with those in charge. Never. It's like this never ending circle of going no where. If 4 strokes were so good, they'd allow 150cc, and 300cc in classes. They can't even do that.
Pretty sure Kaven Benoit was on a 2t as late as ‘23. There are still 2t allowed in Canadian MX 250 class. There’s Fantics, YZ, and the Austrians still racing 2t.
Pit Row
Benoit was set to race the 2 stroke, but they were having too many problems with it, so he rode the 4 stroke.
He hasn't raced a 2 stroke at the Nationals since his back to back championships in 2014-2015.
Similar thing happened in Australia, where equal displacement was working well, but every time someone on a 2t won, or even holeshot, the factory 4t teams would complain to the point that the rules were changed.
I asked about the premix class 125-150 about running VP c12 . They said yes & they don’t check fuel. Same rule applies to a 125 racing the 250 pro class in Canada. I believe. Where is the torque & hp of a 250f now ? I heard 50+ hp out of a 250f . They carry there power much further than a 05 - 2012 250f now. In 05 Indy all the teams said 23 ft lbs but nothing on hp. A 2mm ovr bore 2mm stroker crank 1mm up 1mm down . Could hit 23 + torque. Leaded fuel is allowed in 125c, 125 bc correct ? At LL
This engine beat the 250f mod bikes in 04 . For the championship. A couple of the pipes created for the DBP where never returned to Japan . From teams tested them.
Chad Johnson won the 06 title on a yz250 in AX when it was highly contested by riders & 4-sts. They changed the tracks after that to make them 4-st tracks.
It would be interesting a 2T was allowed to be developed as a modern engine. Up to but maybe not 450cc
The whole issue with those aluminum framed 125s was the airbox choking the motor. Without modding the airbox (widely opening it up) those bikes were seriously anemic.
Yep, like having your nose pinched while you're trying to run sprints - I can't breathe.
Yep Lol
Damn I thought the 96 with the flat top piston ran better
Chance Hymas is in Detroit and got 6th for Honda.
The steel framed Hondas ran significantly better. Talon Vohland ran a 95 cylinder on his Honda 125 in ‘99. Racing teams started modifying the airboxes (to a certain extent) to squeeze as much out of the CRs as they could. But Honda had given up any real 2t development by that time.
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