Honda CRF Chassis harshness

villageIdiot has it right. Its at around 3 to 1 approx. I made a mistake saying 5mm lower rear of seat. It was actually 10mm lower, NOT 28mm or whatever the hot head thinks. This made the new gen KTM have the same level seat stance as the 2016-2022 chassis, The new ktms have a more stink bug seat angle, Some are ok with it, some like a flat seat. BTW the new honda and the new yamaha both have a flatter seat angle just like the old KTM chassis. 

28hall

your response wording is consistent with someone angry over something, not some one genuinely asking questions. If your offended by my thred you are free to move on. There are hundreds of setup test I have done to deal with all you mention and more that you simply do not know about. AND again you claim to have read BUT your responses dont follow that clame well.

The 60 mm oil in the new honda fork (btw a VERY different fork than the past, Ive had many hondas and none have the fluidity that ths one has) )  the rebound is only 2-3 out from full hard. The comp clicker is at standard setting. The comp clicker doesnt work well on this overly soft fork BUT you get useful compression resistance (yes of course crude, its a quick temporary fix just to ride the darn thing) from the rebounds crossover effect. That mid valve stock is waayyy too soft for anyone but a novice.

As for the 60mm? Yes sweetpea thats unheard of in most forks. Not this one AND some tunners are now placing volume spacers in this fork to mimic the 60mm volume rather than run that much oil. This to use the stock spring and get a more progressive action to spring ramp up without raising the oil height so as to keep the spring seat diving into the bath at same point.

Many keep harping on springs. Your lack of reading comprehension is telling. I have repeatedly stated this harshness is obvious not just on track at speed but even ridding slow across ripply ground.

Going forward.......

I see a lot of but hurt and jumping the gun without asking questions here

I have received a few private messages already from more upright guys telling me to start ignoring those who simply want to cause trouble. And even saying its a way of getting the mods to shut this down if I take the bait and start getting too hot with ya.

So the approach from here on out will be to simply ignor those who I feel are not here to find a solution but rather to simply call my ability into question. If you approch with solid questions ok but if your not going to read carfully or if I feel your disposition is less that upright then you simply will be ignored.

I hope this isnt a snowflake forum? I suspect there are some in positions of power keeping a close eye and nothing is more hated than the truth. I am here to find out who is onto this and if anyone has found a way to at least calm this down. If it anoys you too much move on

Dont get too caught up in the spring debate

Of course the bike will be better overall at speed on track once its sprung and damped properly. Revalving and springs are almost academic (no disrespect to those in the field that are putting a "fine edge" on this with their knowladge). Im talking about finding out if what we are feeling is a chassis thing and if it can be overcome reasonably by eather suspension or chassis mod. I will dump dollars once I get enough data......

The issue here is a strange harshness in the rear that so far defys suspension settings in a way that indicates there is an poorly controlled whip action in the rear of the chassis itself. This is made clear when ya ride slow or fast over small sharp bumps that are no where near ridding in the harsh part of the link etc. No matter the setting and no matter the sag its there and its obvious

btw for those interested...

With loudspeakers the angle between the motor and the cone is one of the biggest tunning tools to getting a well behave flexure in the cone. You can seriously change the wiggles in the cone (and thus how harsh it sounds) by changing this angle. I sometimes wonder if the radical sag settings are  setting up a different angle in the way the shock pings the chassis and if this may be having some effect. Sure a low sag number starts in a softer part of link BUT at low speeds its not that much different by my calculations. . Remember we are talking about a harshness thats there even at loads that are no where near the steep part of links curve.

I will be giving GB a call next week. So far they come up most often in this case. 

 interesting. I wonder if there is a tight breakin issue? on the new hondas?

I have about 10hrs on mine BUT today I was pushing on seats and the honda was waaayyyy gooy stiff slow return feeling in the rear and the yamaha and KTM were supple and fluid. Its only 10 degrees out in the shop so I thought maybe a seal sticky thing but ,,,,,,,,,hmmmm it didnt do that when it was 60 degrees out

A lot of tuners have made early money on AER simply because people didnt give that system enough break in time. I have two air chambers, one with maybe 15 hrs and another with about 80. There night and day difference in initial movements.

yes I noticed that there was a solid difference in the harshness between 100 and 105 sag. It did not eliminate the issue and it was still ugly BUT it was an easily noticeable difference

This was noticed even ridding in pits, not just under heavy track loads

I do a far amount of bike setup locally. I have found many Hondas with sag well into the 110 range or more. Ya bring it up to around 105 and the riders jaw drops. They cant believe they were riding the last year or so like that. Some say its like a whole new bike

On my 2025 the sag kept changing the first 4 rides. As if the spring or somthing was setting in?? Very strange. Never seen that before. Then I see MXA say somthing about it. They say keep an eye on sag on this bike as it changes the first few rides. 

Unfortunately that didnt turn out to be the issue BUT for sure you get down around 107-110 and your ridding a 2x4

I find many bikes to be very sensitive to sag, the SXFs and the older Hondas. The yamaha seems almost immune to small changes there. I could easily feel 1mm change on the SXF on hard pack tracks. 

a word on rider sensitivity to bike feel....

Often you hear something like this "only very sensitive riders feel this or that" or "only the best riders can tell..."

this is an oversimplification that causes a great deal of frustration in all walks of life

while its true that most of us dont know what it is we are feeling that doesnt mean we are not feeling it. It doesn't mean that the issue isnt affecting us

most simply dont have enough actual development and test experience to identify what exactly they are feeling, but rest assured whatever issue a bike has , you are feeling it and it is effecting your performance

This is true in ALL areas , not just bikes. and often once you are keen to a specific issue, you then start to notice it easily. 

btw on the saying "only the best riders can tell"  well so far the data clearly shows that many of the best riders in the world have no clue exactly what they are feeling, and they struggle to define it in technical terms, BUT they damn well know when something is or isnt working well. 

thanks prida28

Ive had conversations with Ride JBI. They told me at my weight and speed that NO spring change needed, just valving mods

I agree ya may need a bit more coil in the front at your weight and for sure you needed more in rear. The kick was certainly you blowing through the stroke and bouncing off the bumper, So often mistaken as a too stiff rear but as U experienced its the opposite

I like Ride JBI' "volume spacers" in the forks idea. There size equates to around 50 cc  I think?  I did a similar similar thing by just adding that amount of oil for crude test BUT their way ya dont raise the oil height and change the place where the spring seats hit the bath. Good stuff.  Even with my crude test of 60cc oil and running the rebound clickers waaayy in gave a much better hold up, progression, and bottom resist. I look forward to having them done with a bit more finesse ha

Good the hear their valving worked for ya. They make a nice kit that you just install yourself with everything you mention so good value for the DIY crowed

And as you can see I agree with ya that there is something in the chassis that many perceive as a "firmness". I suspect it actually may be not so much a firm chassis but a softer one that's winding up and releasing the energy right back into your ass . People would be surprised how perception can fool ya into thinking somethings this ,when its actually that.

Anyway thanks so much for the input as you seem to be admitting that there's something to this BUT the good news is that you feel the issue is now at least masked enough to be tolerable by reasonable suspension settings 

Reasonable and honest answers.  Thanks!!

And besides, is she not the best looking bike yall have seen in ages?! Im sure thats part of my motivation to get to the bottom of this one

Hi Ron

Yes 2025 CRF450

Not sure who Im talkin to here so forgive me if im off but how's Earl ?  Had a  nice conversation with him a few years back. I think yall did my 2018 SXF450.  He might remember, I sent him a present from an Israel trip back in 2019 I think.

I too was quite surprised at how stable the new Honda is. That was a surprise. I have yet to get a wiggle out of it. My 2025 YZF450 however wants to play rough at the end of long fast straights BUT it certainly is a nice feel in the seat compared to the stock honda and yes I did put a reasonable seat on the Honda ha. Those frame rails were pokin through the stock seat within one ride.

Thats a bold claim your makin there. I never would have guessed that the Honda could be righted enough to put it between the yamaha and the Kow. The Kowsaki was really quite good in the comfort dept. but the vibrations and my age didnt mix. So I bought the yamaha and the honda with idea of picking one and selling off the other. I was on a 2025 SXF350 for about a month so I have some reference there as well. 

However so far its love for the yamaha motor and comfort feel but not the way it turns it feels heavy compared to the honda,, and love for the way the honda handles but hate the beat down. I want the Honda to win this but If I cannot get this issue fixed she will have to go

Do you guys have the magic wand for this one / 58 in the rear is quite a jump. what do you weigh/speed?

Im around 182lbs vet expert. usually run in the front and can still mix it up with the young guys but only for a couple laps just to remind them

Thanks for the heads up Ron

BTW...

Graeme Brough is out of the country at the moment

I sent an Email  to him today 

 we will see what he has to say. Im sure he is very busy 

I know its early but with all the warming spells weve had Im wondering if you've  had a chance to test the FC setup yet?

checkin in ....

have you tested the BG setup yet and if so what do you think?