Is the USA on the verge of becoming the only relevant series?

64smoker
Posts
525
Joined
2/7/2023
Location
Ramsgate GB
10/3/2024 5:04am
zehn wrote:

Define depth, because the American series are swimming in it right now with more coming soon on the horizon

64smoker wrote:
Depth ( depth of talent ) mx2 has 8-9 riders who can win all under the age of 23 .  Mx1 similar Herlings prado Febvre Gajser seewer...

Depth ( depth of talent ) mx2 has 8-9 riders who can win all under the age of 23 . 
 Mx1 similar Herlings prado Febvre Gajser seewer vlanderen Renaux can all win a race , tell me that’s not depth 

vdrsnk04 wrote:
While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned...

While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned are headed stateside. Just in the last years here are guys they have lost to AMA that quickly come to mind.

Marvin Musquin
Dylan Ferrandis

Jett Lawrence

Hunter Lawrence

Tom Vialle

Jorge Prado

Soon Coenen brothers, DeWolf. 

While at the same time how many top guys have left AMA in favor of MXGP? 

I love the truly European tracks and the announcers, just so many things about MXGP, but I do agree things need to get better or they will keep losing top guys and not gaining them.

 

There not going to go to gps because the American lifestyle is easier and more money I don’t blame them either id do exactly the same , my point is there will be more coming through Mxgp is going nowhere ( I do agree the series is run shit ) but even if you take the brothers there still plenty or talent in mx2 and more coming through from the emx 250 it will be fine there’s a good feeder class in place 👍

5
idworx
Posts
96
Joined
4/21/2019
Location
DE
10/3/2024 5:06am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned...

While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned are headed stateside. Just in the last years here are guys they have lost to AMA that quickly come to mind.

Marvin Musquin
Dylan Ferrandis

Jett Lawrence

Hunter Lawrence

Tom Vialle

Jorge Prado

Soon Coenen brothers, DeWolf. 

While at the same time how many top guys have left AMA in favor of MXGP? 

I love the truly European tracks and the announcers, just so many things about MXGP, but I do agree things need to get better or they will keep losing top guys and not gaining them.

 

Foreigners that come to the USA do usually very well; US racers that go to MXGP have a much harder time!

8
matze
Posts
1835
Joined
3/1/2014
Location
Stuttgart DE
10/3/2024 5:18am

you wish

2
1
Spoonguy
Posts
3386
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA US
10/3/2024 5:56am

A woman rider has a much better chance of scoring points in the GPs. So they are great from a equality of the sexes standpoint.

2
8

The Shop

Spoonguy
Posts
3386
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA US
10/3/2024 5:57am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned...

While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned are headed stateside. Just in the last years here are guys they have lost to AMA that quickly come to mind.

Marvin Musquin
Dylan Ferrandis

Jett Lawrence

Hunter Lawrence

Tom Vialle

Jorge Prado

Soon Coenen brothers, DeWolf. 

While at the same time how many top guys have left AMA in favor of MXGP? 

I love the truly European tracks and the announcers, just so many things about MXGP, but I do agree things need to get better or they will keep losing top guys and not gaining them.

 

idworx wrote:

Foreigners that come to the USA do usually very well; US racers that go to MXGP have a much harder time!

Villo won at his third GP didn't he? American powerhouses like Trampas Parker, and Bobby Moore won championships?

1
9
agn5008
Posts
1889
Joined
3/8/2021
Location
PA, PA US
Fantasy
10/3/2024 6:07am

Not to mention Vialle and both the Lawrence's left.

De Wolf also will be in the USA soon

‘The American dream’What IS exactly the ‘American dream’?Because, all of those riders can earn a bomb riding in Europe. So earnings may have once been the...

‘The American dream’

What IS exactly the ‘American dream’?

Because, all of those riders can earn a bomb riding in Europe. So earnings may have once been the big draw, but now the top guys are earning the same. And plenty.

So what is it? 
Weather? 
No language barrier? (They all speak English) Travel?

Girls? 
Property prices?  

Or is it simply- Supercross?? 

It’s a lot of things. These kids can come here, make really good money, live in a beautiful home, live in an area with beautiful weather and plenty of beautiful women all while being very safe. Instead of traveling to China they get to travel to Florida, Michigan, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. they don’t have to worry about learning every other countries laws, language barriers, eating shady food, crime rates, customs, etc. You can fly out of Los Angeles into Pittsburgh and feel exactly the same. 

1
10/3/2024 6:10am
The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent...

The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent base.

Go to a GP anywhere in Europe on a "regular" track (i.e. not Cozar, Switzerland, etc) and your question will answer itself

10/3/2024 8:20am

Not to mention Vialle and both the Lawrence's left.

De Wolf also will be in the USA soon

‘The American dream’What IS exactly the ‘American dream’?Because, all of those riders can earn a bomb riding in Europe. So earnings may have once been the...

‘The American dream’

What IS exactly the ‘American dream’?

Because, all of those riders can earn a bomb riding in Europe. So earnings may have once been the big draw, but now the top guys are earning the same. And plenty.

So what is it? 
Weather? 
No language barrier? (They all speak English) Travel?

Girls? 
Property prices?  

Or is it simply- Supercross?? 

The Girls!

motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
10/3/2024 8:26am
RG437 wrote:
JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left...

JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left. MXGP still here as strong as ever. 

The question I would ask is if American moto is in such a good position, why are teams turning to Europe to hire their riders?

We aren't talking about what country the talent is coming from. We are talking about where that talent wants to race Wink

4
4
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
10/3/2024 8:29am
The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent...

The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent base.

crusty_xx wrote:

Go to a GP anywhere in Europe on a "regular" track (i.e. not Cozar, Switzerland, etc) and your question will answer itself

I've been into tis sport since the seventies and I respect the races run on the real traditional tracks. This topic is more complex than whether or not the GP's still have some awesome tracks or not.

1
4
RG437
Posts
368
Joined
2/5/2023
Location
Leicester GB
10/3/2024 8:31am Edited Date/Time 10/3/2024 8:31am
RG437 wrote:
JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left...

JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left. MXGP still here as strong as ever. 

The question I would ask is if American moto is in such a good position, why are teams turning to Europe to hire their riders?

We aren't talking about what country the talent is coming from. We are talking about where that talent wants to race Wink

It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA. As long as Europe produces talent on the level it has done, MXGP will always be relevant 

9
1
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
10/3/2024 8:35am Edited Date/Time 10/3/2024 8:41am
RG437 wrote:
JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left...

JMB left, Albertyn left, Pichon left, Tortelli left, Vuillemin left, Townley left, Pourcel left, Searle left, Musquin left, Roczen left, Ferrandis left, Lawrence’s left, Vialle left. MXGP still here as strong as ever. 

The question I would ask is if American moto is in such a good position, why are teams turning to Europe to hire their riders?

We aren't talking about what country the talent is coming from. We are talking about where that talent wants to race Wink

RG437 wrote:
It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA...

It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA. As long as Europe produces talent on the level it has done, MXGP will always be relevant 

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming) you can't tell me you are happy with how the series is structured these days. Between the half filled gates and the bastard tracks they run half the series on I can't see how that would give you a warm fuzzy. When American MX and SX joined forces and then created this SMX playoff it was a stroke of genius. Our series is nothing short of amazing now. The GP's not so much imho.

9
vdrsnk04
Posts
2023
Joined
9/5/2018
Location
IL US
10/3/2024 8:50am
64smoker wrote:
Depth ( depth of talent ) mx2 has 8-9 riders who can win all under the age of 23 .  Mx1 similar Herlings prado Febvre Gajser seewer...

Depth ( depth of talent ) mx2 has 8-9 riders who can win all under the age of 23 . 
 Mx1 similar Herlings prado Febvre Gajser seewer vlanderen Renaux can all win a race , tell me that’s not depth 

vdrsnk04 wrote:
While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned...

While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned are headed stateside. Just in the last years here are guys they have lost to AMA that quickly come to mind.

Marvin Musquin
Dylan Ferrandis

Jett Lawrence

Hunter Lawrence

Tom Vialle

Jorge Prado

Soon Coenen brothers, DeWolf. 

While at the same time how many top guys have left AMA in favor of MXGP? 

I love the truly European tracks and the announcers, just so many things about MXGP, but I do agree things need to get better or they will keep losing top guys and not gaining them.

 

64smoker wrote:
There not going to go to gps because the American lifestyle is easier and more money I don’t blame them either id do exactly the same...

There not going to go to gps because the American lifestyle is easier and more money I don’t blame them either id do exactly the same , my point is there will be more coming through Mxgp is going nowhere ( I do agree the series is run shit ) but even if you take the brothers there still plenty or talent in mx2 and more coming through from the emx 250 it will be fine there’s a good feeder class in place 👍

I agree.

vdrsnk04
Posts
2023
Joined
9/5/2018
Location
IL US
10/3/2024 8:52am
vdrsnk04 wrote:
While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned...

While I don’t think MXGP is going anywhere the depth of talent comment isn’t a good one. About 3 of the 5 guys you just mentioned are headed stateside. Just in the last years here are guys they have lost to AMA that quickly come to mind.

Marvin Musquin
Dylan Ferrandis

Jett Lawrence

Hunter Lawrence

Tom Vialle

Jorge Prado

Soon Coenen brothers, DeWolf. 

While at the same time how many top guys have left AMA in favor of MXGP? 

I love the truly European tracks and the announcers, just so many things about MXGP, but I do agree things need to get better or they will keep losing top guys and not gaining them.

 

idworx wrote:

Foreigners that come to the USA do usually very well; US racers that go to MXGP have a much harder time!

I wasn’t stating whether MXGP guys or AMA guys are better. I was just stating the fact that way more MXGP guys go to AMA versus the other way for many reasons that end up making the AMA a more premiere series for more people to be a part of. 

LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID US
10/3/2024 8:53am

Isn't it already?

However, MXGP is relevant just like Minor League Baseball is relevant, there has to be a lesser series to develop talent to jump up to the big leagues.

1
10
10/3/2024 8:55am
The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent...

The rats are jumping off the MXGP ship at a prodigious rate. I don't see how they can maintain the series with a quickly diminishing talent base.

crusty_xx wrote:

Go to a GP anywhere in Europe on a "regular" track (i.e. not Cozar, Switzerland, etc) and your question will answer itself

I've been into tis sport since the seventies and I respect the races run on the real traditional tracks. This topic is more complex than whether...

I've been into tis sport since the seventies and I respect the races run on the real traditional tracks. This topic is more complex than whether or not the GP's still have some awesome tracks or not.

I don't really mean the tracks. There's multiple classes packed full of talent. The atmosphere, the tens of thousands of fans lining the tracks, etc.

It would take more than one guy in about half a decade leaving the series to make it irrelevant. Before Vialle who was the last one to leave? Dylan in 2017? Can't really count the Lawrences because Europe was always just a gateway to the US for them.

2
RG437
Posts
368
Joined
2/5/2023
Location
Leicester GB
10/3/2024 9:40am

We aren't talking about what country the talent is coming from. We are talking about where that talent wants to race Wink

RG437 wrote:
It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA...

It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA. As long as Europe produces talent on the level it has done, MXGP will always be relevant 

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming)...

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming) you can't tell me you are happy with how the series is structured these days. Between the half filled gates and the bastard tracks they run half the series on I can't see how that would give you a warm fuzzy. When American MX and SX joined forces and then created this SMX playoff it was a stroke of genius. Our series is nothing short of amazing now. The GP's not so much imho.

But I feel like that is a different conversation than your original point about ‘talent base’. Talent wise I think MXGP will be fine, because it always has been when top talents have left.

Some of the tracks they race on in MXGP are really not of the level you would expect at that level, that much is clear, but can you honestly say that the SMX playoff tracks were any better or any more inspiring than the MXGP of Turkey for example? Because I certainly didn’t think so. Rider numbers on the gate has always been a topic of conversation over the years, but in the last couple of years rider numbers in the European rounds have largely been pretty good. Let’s not forget that we’ve seen LCQ’s in SX late in the season in recent years with only 10 or so on the gate. The last SMX round took 8 from 9 in the 250 LCQ, so it’s not a purely MXGP issue. 

Infront get a lot wrong, but it’s not all bad, and the series is far from irrelevant. The level of racing and fan support tells you that. MXGP maybe losing some top talent, but they have created a system where there is a pipeline of young talent to take their places, and when they are gone, the next man up will get their shot 

5
2
motomike137
Posts
8180
Joined
4/22/2010
Location
Fenton, MI US
10/3/2024 10:46am Edited Date/Time 10/3/2024 10:49am
RG437 wrote:
It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA...

It’s convenient that you don’t want to talk about where the talent is coming from, because it seems increasingly apparent that it largely isn’t the USA. As long as Europe produces talent on the level it has done, MXGP will always be relevant 

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming)...

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming) you can't tell me you are happy with how the series is structured these days. Between the half filled gates and the bastard tracks they run half the series on I can't see how that would give you a warm fuzzy. When American MX and SX joined forces and then created this SMX playoff it was a stroke of genius. Our series is nothing short of amazing now. The GP's not so much imho.

RG437 wrote:
But I feel like that is a different conversation than your original point about ‘talent base’. Talent wise I think MXGP will be fine, because it...

But I feel like that is a different conversation than your original point about ‘talent base’. Talent wise I think MXGP will be fine, because it always has been when top talents have left.

Some of the tracks they race on in MXGP are really not of the level you would expect at that level, that much is clear, but can you honestly say that the SMX playoff tracks were any better or any more inspiring than the MXGP of Turkey for example? Because I certainly didn’t think so. Rider numbers on the gate has always been a topic of conversation over the years, but in the last couple of years rider numbers in the European rounds have largely been pretty good. Let’s not forget that we’ve seen LCQ’s in SX late in the season in recent years with only 10 or so on the gate. The last SMX round took 8 from 9 in the 250 LCQ, so it’s not a purely MXGP issue. 

Infront get a lot wrong, but it’s not all bad, and the series is far from irrelevant. The level of racing and fan support tells you that. MXGP maybe losing some top talent, but they have created a system where there is a pipeline of young talent to take their places, and when they are gone, the next man up will get their shot 

I think my comment about talent base was relative to many of best guys ultimately wanting to come here. Secondly SMX isn't pretending to be MX . Look at the venues they were held at anf the attendance they had not to mention riders fighting for a piece of the pie. I'm not saying it's perfect here either. I think the riders and teams all deserve a bigger slice of the pie than they're currently getting here as well.

4
Flatliner
Posts
4078
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
10/3/2024 12:28pm

Its a great series that could use a few changes, like ours over here.  The fly away events are cool, but the current governing body should be helping the smaller teams get to these races.  TM should be racing every round,  same as fantic.  One American round, and one Canadian round back to back for ease of travel.

2
10/3/2024 2:07pm

GPs need a USGP round each year and rotate it to one of the Nationals track each year (does NOT need to coincide with USMX schedule)
Pretty sure that will get full gates and increase fan base. 

Poor marketing not having a USGP. 

1
1
Spoonguy
Posts
3386
Joined
2/28/2022
Location
Mc Kean, PA US
10/3/2024 2:39pm

Of course the most talented rider isn't from the "everyone get's a participation trophy" USA. But there is many reasons the talent comes here or at least wants to. The shame about both series, especially GPs, it seems pretty obvious diamond in the rough talent from meager means will find it harder and harder to make it as a pro or be "discovered".

BAD10
Posts
1133
Joined
1/3/2009
Location
San Diego, CA US
10/3/2024 2:52pm
Magoofan wrote:

With Super-duper-cross becoming the most awesomeest extreme sport (just a level above Monster Trucks).... everything else is finished.

 

gerg wrote:
While you whine constantly about how shit it all is, I'd give anything to be able to see the racers and racing that the lucky people...

While you whine constantly about how shit it all is, I'd give anything to be able to see the racers and racing that the lucky people in the USA get to see in person if they choose to.

My bucket list is to get over my fear of flying and get over there.

To get over the fear check the stats on how many plane crashes there was yesterday VS car crashes  

Brent
Posts
5798
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Party in Temecula, CA US
10/3/2024 3:00pm
GPs need a USGP round each year and rotate it to one of the Nationals track each year (does NOT need to coincide with USMX schedule)Pretty...

GPs need a USGP round each year and rotate it to one of the Nationals track each year (does NOT need to coincide with USMX schedule)
Pretty sure that will get full gates and increase fan base. 

Poor marketing not having a USGP. 

...If they had an MXGP in the United States during the season again,  it would have to be an AMA SMX points and purse money paying event.

If not, few if any top American riders would show up, as they are professionals and like to make money. Gotta pay the bills...

5
Press516
Posts
5558
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Gilbert, AZ US
Fantasy
10/3/2024 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2024 3:03pm

The GP series isn't going anywhere.....  Unless a much larger portion of their talent leaves.  At the top, the 2 series are pretty close, with a slight advantage to AMA.  Don't believe me?  Watch Jett and the other AMA riders this weekend.  Move Kay, Jorge, the Coenen Bros, and more and it's a shock to the GP system...  Get more superstars like Herlings giving the series a little beatdown and it hurts a little more.  When it adds up to enough to impact the $$ coming in (eventually it will if it continues) then you will see massive change in the organization (it's needed).

1
2
CASH476
Posts
602
Joined
2/27/2009
Location
Perth AU
10/3/2024 5:57pm
Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming)...

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming) you can't tell me you are happy with how the series is structured these days. Between the half filled gates and the bastard tracks they run half the series on I can't see how that would give you a warm fuzzy. When American MX and SX joined forces and then created this SMX playoff it was a stroke of genius. Our series is nothing short of amazing now. The GP's not so much imho.

Just curious, who on your opinion is the most talented guy on the planet?

1
10/3/2024 6:05pm
GPs need a USGP round each year and rotate it to one of the Nationals track each year (does NOT need to coincide with USMX schedule)Pretty...

GPs need a USGP round each year and rotate it to one of the Nationals track each year (does NOT need to coincide with USMX schedule)
Pretty sure that will get full gates and increase fan base. 

Poor marketing not having a USGP. 

MXGPs are sanctioned by the governing body in the country hosting the race, a USGP would need to be AMA sanctioned.

1
Mavetism
Posts
5762
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
Hannover DE
10/3/2024 6:15pm
Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming)...

Ok sure. It's a big world out there and the most talented guy on the planet isn't from Europe is he now? Being a Brit (assuming) you can't tell me you are happy with how the series is structured these days. Between the half filled gates and the bastard tracks they run half the series on I can't see how that would give you a warm fuzzy. When American MX and SX joined forces and then created this SMX playoff it was a stroke of genius. Our series is nothing short of amazing now. The GP's not so much imho.

CASH476 wrote:

Just curious, who on your opinion is the most talented guy on the planet?

Jet.jpg?VersionId= 68hCmZcWADjVmU4DwU0aVoS5uobXJs
7
deanwhite51
Posts
2670
Joined
10/5/2017
Location
Sydney AU
10/3/2024 6:22pm

Some may argue MXGP has more younger talent coming through than the current american Amateur system...

Take Deegan out of it.. and its been pretty sub par last few years for the 250's compared to what USA has been producing in the past.

4
1
vdrsnk04
Posts
2023
Joined
9/5/2018
Location
IL US
10/3/2024 7:01pm
Some may argue MXGP has more younger talent coming through than the current american Amateur system...Take Deegan out of it.. and its been pretty sub par...

Some may argue MXGP has more younger talent coming through than the current american Amateur system...

Take Deegan out of it.. and its been pretty sub par last few years for the 250's compared to what USA has been producing in the past.

I’d agree more young talent coming up in MXGP world, who once going premier class moves to the AMA series, or at least seems to be the past few years. I think that’s the point of the thread.

2
Trickamoto
Posts
636
Joined
2/6/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
10/3/2024 7:08pm

Bottom line, there's only five or six good guys in each class in the. That's not enough to make them a great series. And the tracks are so fucking terrible it's a joke. You've got to fight for 15th in the 250 class over here. The very top couple of guys in each class over there would be relevant here but after that, it's a bunch of garbage. 

5

Post a reply to: Is the USA on the verge of becoming the only relevant series?

The Latest