Are 4-strokes here to stay or is there a lighter, more efficient and faster combustion engine tech in the future of dirtbikes

BigRedMachine
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Before all you Electric bike people jump all over this thread, I'm curious if anyone thinks there will be a completely different combustion engine platform that will take the Motocross and Sportbike world by storm in the future.  I think electric bikes would be the death of Supercross and Motocross, because engine noise is a huge factor in the excitement of the sport, but I understand there's a market for electric bikes, just not SX or MX. I came across this video of Guy Martin on a Rotary engine sportbike and he sounded like he was damn impressed by it's speed.  I also saw an article that a Hydrogen fueled Rotary engine is in the works.  So! let's say in 10 years, is it still going to be 4-strokes dominating the Motocross world or are we going to eventually see dirtbikes powered by a rotary or something else.  I certainly like the sound of this thing. 

 

 

Poll

Dominant motocross engine platform in 10 years

Choices
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5
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2/13/2024 6:26pm

Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric coming, the return on investment isn't there.

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1
2/13/2024 6:30pm

Bio fuel two strokes 

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zehn
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2/13/2024 6:34pm

As soon as good solid state batteries become available it’s all over

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JerryVan
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2/13/2024 6:34pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2024 7:24pm

I can't see any of the manufacturers pivoting to a new form ICE, they all generally seem to be going down the electric route. For what it's worth, rotary engines, like the one in the video on the original post, are even less fuel efficient than piston engines. So it would be a backwards step from the direction they are going.

 

Although, it was only a few years ago that every tech company was working on some kind of Metaverse, so you never know...

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The Shop

zehn
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2/13/2024 6:35pm

But that could be years to be fair

BigRedMachine
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2/13/2024 6:36pm
Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric...

Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric coming, the return on investment isn't there.

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would take is for one manufacturer to think outside the box and come up with a combustion engine that's a game changer. I might be wrong and God! I hope I'm not, but I can't for the life of me imagine a gate full of Electric Motocross bikes at a Supercross event being popular, simply because of the sound of those whining engines and hearing the rear tires slap against the whoops would drive everyone except the most hardened Soybean latte drinking eco freak completely crazy. 

9
5
2/13/2024 6:58pm
Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric...

Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric coming, the return on investment isn't there.

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would...

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would take is for one manufacturer to think outside the box and come up with a combustion engine that's a game changer. I might be wrong and God! I hope I'm not, but I can't for the life of me imagine a gate full of Electric Motocross bikes at a Supercross event being popular, simply because of the sound of those whining engines and hearing the rear tires slap against the whoops would drive everyone except the most hardened Soybean latte drinking eco freak completely crazy. 

30 years ago, nobody could imagine the terrible sound of a gate full of four strokes, not when you had the sweet sound of two strokes.

The world changes.

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BigRedMachine
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2/13/2024 7:38pm
Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric...

Unlikely, it takes a lot of time and money to develop a new concept engine, it's unlikely the existing OEMs will make that investment with electric coming, the return on investment isn't there.

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would...

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would take is for one manufacturer to think outside the box and come up with a combustion engine that's a game changer. I might be wrong and God! I hope I'm not, but I can't for the life of me imagine a gate full of Electric Motocross bikes at a Supercross event being popular, simply because of the sound of those whining engines and hearing the rear tires slap against the whoops would drive everyone except the most hardened Soybean latte drinking eco freak completely crazy. 

30 years ago, nobody could imagine the terrible sound of a gate full of four strokes, not when you had the sweet sound of two strokes...

30 years ago, nobody could imagine the terrible sound of a gate full of four strokes, not when you had the sweet sound of two strokes.

The world changes.

UHG! crap from the looks of this poll, the future isn't looking too bright for the sport of Supercross and Motocross. I try to go to Supercross and Motocross as much as I can, but fast motorcycles without the smell of race fuel whaffing through the air and the sound of a bunch of 4 strokes coming into the first turn sounds depressing to me.  I guess it's hard for an old Dinosaur like me to understand, but the cult of Electric everything seems to be strong here, hopefully I'll be pushing up Daisies when those god awful sounding Electric bikes are all the rage. 

1
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deanwhite51
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2/13/2024 7:42pm

Solid State batteries are the next big thing. From cars to general purpose.. Solid State batteries will take over. 

If your unaware what solid state batteries are. and you have an interest on the future. its worth a quick read.

deny or thumbs down.. but its where its all going.

(I'm a die hard 2 stroke guy and love my motors) 

8
5
2/13/2024 7:52pm
Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would...

Well! I think 30 years ago, none of the manufacturers thought 4 strokes would be the Dominant engine of motocross, but it happened.  All it would take is for one manufacturer to think outside the box and come up with a combustion engine that's a game changer. I might be wrong and God! I hope I'm not, but I can't for the life of me imagine a gate full of Electric Motocross bikes at a Supercross event being popular, simply because of the sound of those whining engines and hearing the rear tires slap against the whoops would drive everyone except the most hardened Soybean latte drinking eco freak completely crazy. 

30 years ago, nobody could imagine the terrible sound of a gate full of four strokes, not when you had the sweet sound of two strokes...

30 years ago, nobody could imagine the terrible sound of a gate full of four strokes, not when you had the sweet sound of two strokes.

The world changes.

UHG! crap from the looks of this poll, the future isn't looking too bright for the sport of Supercross and Motocross. I try to go to...

UHG! crap from the looks of this poll, the future isn't looking too bright for the sport of Supercross and Motocross. I try to go to Supercross and Motocross as much as I can, but fast motorcycles without the smell of race fuel whaffing through the air and the sound of a bunch of 4 strokes coming into the first turn sounds depressing to me.  I guess it's hard for an old Dinosaur like me to understand, but the cult of Electric everything seems to be strong here, hopefully I'll be pushing up Daisies when those god awful sounding Electric bikes are all the rage. 

AMA Supercross is run by an entertainment company, it will still be entertaining, music, announcers and other riders yelling abuse at Friese will drown out the sound of electric bikes.

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theraptur712
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2/13/2024 7:59pm

Personally I think listening to 20+ electric whiney dirtbikes would sound like a55hole. Not to mention the voices of riders cussing each other out. Now add 20+ bikes and chain slap, plastic resonating, tire noise....yuck.

5
2/13/2024 8:02pm

Scramjet with a small solid rocket booster for the starts. 

2
cwtoyota
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2/14/2024 12:11am

Scramjet with a small solid rocket booster for the starts. 

That's 1930's tech...   look up JATO  (Jet Assisted Take Off).


How about a hybrid?
Take an electric bike and replace two thirds of that heavy battery with a screaming 50cc two stroke and a generator...

Gentlemen, welcome to motocross dystopia.

 


 

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Beagle
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2/14/2024 1:51am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2024 1:51am

Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future.

The future of ICE might be with hydrogen, with direct injection they are 15% more efficient than gasoline, simple adaptation of existing ICE, no carbon emissions. Problems do not lie with the engine development but with hydrogen storage and distribution network, and to make sense it needs to be green H2, which is currently 1% of the market. Chicken and egg situation.

1
ns503
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2/14/2024 2:02am
Beagle wrote:
Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future. The future...

Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future.

The future of ICE might be with hydrogen, with direct injection they are 15% more efficient than gasoline, simple adaptation of existing ICE, no carbon emissions. Problems do not lie with the engine development but with hydrogen storage and distribution network, and to make sense it needs to be green H2, which is currently 1% of the market. Chicken and egg situation.

Rotax?

You mean rotary?

4
djr
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2/14/2024 2:03am
Beagle wrote:
Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future. The future...

Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future.

The future of ICE might be with hydrogen, with direct injection they are 15% more efficient than gasoline, simple adaptation of existing ICE, no carbon emissions. Problems do not lie with the engine development but with hydrogen storage and distribution network, and to make sense it needs to be green H2, which is currently 1% of the market. Chicken and egg situation.

"Rotax" ? , I guess you mean "Rotary"

The modern bike I had with a Rotax engine was okay, on the same level as a Japanese engine 

Beagle
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2/14/2024 2:33am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2024 2:34am

Yeah sorry, Rotax are the Austrian aircraft engines manufacturer who made rotary engines for some bikes like Aprilia, BMW, KTM, Bimota. I'm sure they were great fun but it stayed very "niche".

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2/14/2024 3:50am Edited Date/Time 2/14/2024 5:35am
Beagle wrote:
Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future. The future...

Rotax engines may be cool but they never really made it in the present motorcycle world, can't see how they would be the future.

The future of ICE might be with hydrogen, with direct injection they are 15% more efficient than gasoline, simple adaptation of existing ICE, no carbon emissions. Problems do not lie with the engine development but with hydrogen storage and distribution network, and to make sense it needs to be green H2, which is currently 1% of the market. Chicken and egg situation.

Hydrogen needs to be compressed to have any range, creating weight, space and safety issues.

3
2/14/2024 4:04am
Solid State batteries are the next big thing. From cars to general purpose.. Solid State batteries will take over.  If your unaware what solid state batteries...

Solid State batteries are the next big thing. From cars to general purpose.. Solid State batteries will take over. 

If your unaware what solid state batteries are. and you have an interest on the future. its worth a quick read.

deny or thumbs down.. but its where its all going.

(I'm a die hard 2 stroke guy and love my motors) 

100% This.  4 stokes will continue then solid state battery  electric will take over.  After that Maybe some nuclear powered speedster star wars thing.

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2
2/14/2024 4:33am

The next generation of riders will have grown up on eMX only. 
Loud sounds and strange petroleum smells from a motorcycle and when racing will be annoying to them. 
So Manufacturers will sell bikes that don’t annoy them because they want to sell bikes. 

Everyone can still bitch about them and talk how great the old tech was etc. That’s part of the sport / hobby. 

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NotCore
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2/14/2024 5:01am

Small rotary engines may be used as range extenders on hybrid electric vehicles (low weight, high horsepower, reasonable fuel efficiency), but do not generate the torque expected in a motocross bike application.

1
2/14/2024 6:49am

Scramjet with a small solid rocket booster for the starts. 

cwtoyota wrote:
That's 1930's tech...   look up JATO  (Jet Assisted Take Off). How about a hybrid? Take an electric bike and replace two thirds of that heavy battery...

That's 1930's tech...   look up JATO  (Jet Assisted Take Off).


How about a hybrid?
Take an electric bike and replace two thirds of that heavy battery with a screaming 50cc two stroke and a generator...

Gentlemen, welcome to motocross dystopia.

 


 

That’s pretty wild haha.
JATO is sort of the same thing it’s just an implementation utilizing solid rocket motors. You really just need something to get the guys up around Mach 1.5 before they can switch to the scram jet though. 

2
BobDog
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2/14/2024 7:16am

When your non ICE power source can do that, you might have something 

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wwdiii
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2/14/2024 7:30am

Just my guess.  4 strokes will pretty much stay the same for the next few years.  Electric will become dominant over time. Noise, environment etc will be the driver.  10 years in the poll is probably a good guess on time.

Being an older guy I doubt I will see any whiz bag new technology come along.  

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Tumic
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2/14/2024 8:25am
 

 

1
2/14/2024 8:48am
Beagle wrote:
Yeah sorry, Rotax are the Austrian aircraft engines manufacturer who made rotary engines for some bikes like Aprilia, BMW, KTM, Bimota. I'm sure they were great...

Yeah sorry, Rotax are the Austrian aircraft engines manufacturer who made rotary engines for some bikes like Aprilia, BMW, KTM, Bimota. I'm sure they were great fun but it stayed very "niche".

All I know is Rotax is the name of the Ski-Doo engines.

1
2/14/2024 8:51am
JerryVan wrote:
I can't see any of the manufacturers pivoting to a new form ICE, they all generally seem to be going down the electric route. For what...

I can't see any of the manufacturers pivoting to a new form ICE, they all generally seem to be going down the electric route. For what it's worth, rotary engines, like the one in the video on the original post, are even less fuel efficient than piston engines. So it would be a backwards step from the direction they are going.

 

Although, it was only a few years ago that every tech company was working on some kind of Metaverse, so you never know...

Rotarys are also less reliable.

1
Beagle
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2/14/2024 8:53am
Beagle wrote:
Yeah sorry, Rotax are the Austrian aircraft engines manufacturer who made rotary engines for some bikes like Aprilia, BMW, KTM, Bimota. I'm sure they were great...

Yeah sorry, Rotax are the Austrian aircraft engines manufacturer who made rotary engines for some bikes like Aprilia, BMW, KTM, Bimota. I'm sure they were great fun but it stayed very "niche".

HonDawg17 wrote:

All I know is Rotax is the name of the Ski-Doo engines.

Yeah, same guys 👍

2/14/2024 8:54am

Bio fuel two strokes 

Haha yeah.  I did an asap ld of veg oil from port Newark Jersey to Canada. No time to stop for fuel, I just figured I,ll get fuel after unld. There was no fuel stop close by. So I found a 5 gal pale , cracked the hose & dumped 30 gal + of veg oil in the fuel tanks. 06 460p - high performance 487 hp at the wheel.  The Mack ran soo smooth better than diesel. Trk had heated fuel tanks which helped. The hp high pressure injectors. I thought they might b a problem with the veg oil but nope. This trk could break the tires loose hitting 9th gear 10th rare , 13th too much of a gap. Pic Morton, Pa. Rt after a detail in Youngstown . Ld of chocolate see the scraper by the ladder . We hv to pull  & push the heal off.  IMG 2633

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