How far should Factory Editions go with mods?

I think we've learned that this point -  *While also thinking about the end price to the buyers* isn't relevant. I would not be surprised at all if a manufacturer comes out with a bike in the near feature that's over 20K
 

Whatever is cost effective and can profitably sell 400 units. They are just a contrivance for AMAs goofy homologation dates anyways.

I know it would complicate things a little bit , but if they had a way to "order" a factory edition that You could  pick what parts to upgrade to. And perhaps different levels of those. 

 Like getting suspension that is valved/sprung/setup for you and how you ride, then next level up could be coatings added on,  and the upper level would be the same stuff run on factory bikes. And at the top level upgrade You get a test day with a tech.

The engines might need to be more conservative and not offer a full on factory built mod engine to team specs. But maybe they could offer a bottom end power, mid or top. Move the style power around as much as possible with  the limits of an engine and reliability.

WIth pipes , offer a slip on, full stainless, then full TI, Maybe have a full ti factory spec . 

Clamp options  . any of the different configurations the team may run. 

And so on. Let customers decide if they want a $12k or $50K bike. 

But maybe they have data showing that they are at the sweet spot of pricing and doing built to order is something they want to leave to the local dealers. 

As a small shop I know it could eat into my margins if they did that. But I think it would be cool in some ways too. And maybe it could help keep the prices lower on the standard versions. The MTB industry has multiple levels of each model that vary components and some ebikes are 15K with a large amount of that being upgraded stuff over their standard model that shares the same geometry  . Materials in the frames also change as prices go up. It seems to be working , and its been how they have done it since I was a kid and fan of John Tomac. So it could work for MX too. 

Boot and bike mods for full leg grip no matter what movement and full start attack and traction really killed it for dominance the last 2 seasons

They should have multiple options. For example, in the bicycle industry you can spend anywhere from $3500 to $12,000 on the same model depending on build spec. 

I think that with Ducati and Triumph entering the sport, we should see in the future Factory Editions with higher prices and some new gadgets/tech/materials/etc.

They will try to do something more advanced, different and expensive than the current brands, to stablish themselves as high end brands in dirt bike market and attract the high income customers.

Side question: maybe KTM Group is more prepared for this situation? KTM (high), Husqvarna (mid), GG (entry)

It will be difficult to have the type of customisation of MTB due to final product testing and industrialization.

Just my 2 cents

If they sell the ones they are manufacturing keep pushing !!!!! 

Husq is positioned as their more premium brand across the line:

FC450 $11199 450SX-F $11099

FC250 $10299 250SX-F $10199

Yes Dirty Points, you're right.

I was thinking more about the future positioning and not always doing "the math" with prices in mind. For example: some innovations should be unveiled first in KTM FE (trying to compete with Triumph), latter in Husky and maybe/maybe not in GG next model year.

Possibly Ducati will be on their own league due to prices/market position/brand experience.

I appreciate your response with hard data, I didn't look for prices in USA, my mistake.

Full cheater bikes til March

I would think that like MTB's they could use other components that were higher level. From the brands that sponsor the teams as far as alot of that stuff goes.So the parts are already available for a lot of areas.

Engine mods might be more difficult to integrate. But Suspension, Pipes,Wheels, etc. Most of those parts, that they have aftermarket sponsors for already will have an entry level , and then higher level items.  

Honda and Kawi go the furthest as of now it seems. I wish they would all atleast put hinson components inside the clutch too like Honda. I think it should be the full package tho. 

Silly ktm hasnt done the akro on there's.

Jap manufacturers could do steel brake lines and bigger front brake too. Add in fancy titanium pegs for the package. 

Much more than those extra items it would become custom, not edition. 

There is definitely a market for $20k+ bikes that come with premium and/or weight saving components. The mountain bike market is a stark indication of that.

Going waaay off the deep end here, but also interested in typing out for myself what's in my head with this thought experiment ...

First off, an FE model to me should be nearly "all in" ... because the words say FACTORY BIKE edition. I'd like that to really be the point and I am ALL FOR THE SPEC YOUR OWN BIKE approach. Obviously there are real-world, logistical issues - but damning the torpedoes ...

Having some fun here, my ideal FE is:

(1) A-kit suspension set up for me/weight/ability/application (DLC, Kashima, shock triple adjuster, SKF seals, etc.). MUST have adjustment lines on fork tubes.

(2) Premium brake systems (stainless lines, billet/equivalent calipers, larger and/or different material rotors, upgraded levers to ARC breakaways/brand of choice)

(3) Premium split-clamp triple clamps with offset adjustability and XTRIG-like bar mounts fore/aft adjustments

(4) Adjustable rear suspension link

(5) XTRIG-type shock preload adjuster to enable quick sag adjustments

(6) Premium handlebar mounts/options (XC Gear MAKO 360, XTRIG PHDS, other)

(7) Handlebar options like FasstCo Flexxbars, Pro Taper ACF, Pro Taper EVO, etc.

(8) Handlebar grip and donut options

(9) Throttle tube options (billet, with different cams, etc.)

(10) High-end wheels (hubs, spokes, rims, tubes AND tires)

(11) Upgraded chain/sprockets + guides to X-ring chain and Dirt Tricks equivalent lightweight/durable sprockets + TM Designworks or Acerbis guides, etc.

(12) High-end footpegs with up/down and fore/aft adjustment (FasstCo, Pro Pegs, Fastway, etc.)

(13) Upgraded billet shift lever with shift-tip adjustment

(14) Upgraded lightweight, powerful battery

(15) Upgraded exhaust - full system, must come with spark arrestor insert

(16) Upgraded billet intake/air filter setup that is SUPER SIMPLE to remove/install and not get any dirt in engine

(17) Upgraded internal engine component options like: ported head, upgraded cams/valvetrain, (ISF) isotropic superfinished transmission parts/shafts/etc., premium bearings throughout, upgraded crankshaft to be bulletproof, upgraded piston with compression ratio options, etc.

(18) Upgraded ignition with programming to work with the above ^^^ options selected, done in partnership with XPR, Twisted Development, other. The map switch should enable access to ALL MAPS + special FE options like GPS lap-timer, traction control, "race your buddies" connectivity, predictive maintenance based on revs & load, launch control, etc. ---> all phone-app accessible/adjustable

(19) Zerk fittings on ALL grease points so I freaking don't need to tear down and grease my new bike

(20) Special seat that offers performance and comfort advantage (think "Think!" seat foam)

(21) High capacity, beefy & braced radiator options + radiator caps + hoses + premium coolant like Engine Ice, EVAN's, other

(22) Engine hanger options + extra hangers to try

(23) Factory service manual (hardcopy AND electronic)

(24) Mini toolkit and air pump able to service entire bike externally (internal engine service capability not necessary)

(25) Optional "special toolkit" that includes EVERY conceivable tool required to service the bike down to crankshaft rebuild, suspension full rebuilds, wheel bearing replacement, etc.

(26) Hinson-like full clutch option (Hinson, Rekluse, GYTR, whatever) + cable/hydraulic action options ---> To include lever/perch options

(27) Steering stabilizer

(28) Unique FE plastics with in-molded graphics that are guaranteed to be tough/keep the bike looking new a loooong time

(29) First major service-interval kit for all common wear items like fork & shock rebuilds, top-end + gaskets, chain sliders, oil filters, all types of crush washers, etc. I don't need oil, just the OEM parts I'd need to order anyway.

(30) A warranty ... yes, a warranty

(31) Fuel tank options like translucent option, larger tank option, carbon fiber option, etc.

(32) Kickstand, yes kickstand options --- like a full titanium featherweight option

(33) Complete bike fastener kit options (standard or full titanium)

(34) Bike protection + grip options (skid plates, glide plates, radiator braces, rotor guards, frame guards, etc.)

(35) Surely there's something I am forgetting ... ?

That's all ... 

And yes, I am ignoring economies of scale, market analysis, "average rider" specs, etc.

I will pay a mega premium to get to "spec my own bike" and not have to do all the testing and assembly myself. I like the GYTR accessory model, but take it to the max.

--- START:  EDIT / CLARIFYING CONCEPT ---------------------

Really my outline above becomes a company like Dave Miller Concepts (DMC) back in the 1980s, but truly - Honda, etc., could outsource this to a reputable company like Twisted Development (TD), Yoshimura, etc. This could be a new business model where Honda licenses "Honda FE by Twisted Development" and whoever else is willing to play to pay and get official certification from Honda. In summary, let Honda deliver OEM CRFs to their FE-build partners, not disrupt their own operations, yet create more market penetration and prestige with the authorized FE partners.

There's untapped potential here ^^^ - I really believe that.

--- END ----------------------

Back to the normally-scheduled program ...

A "sky is the limit," spec-your-own OEM-based bike option + good financing options + warranty ---> I AM IN ALL THE WAY!

Yep the creation of the Factory Edition has allowed the manufacturers to rort the rules and grow sales at the same time. Well played.

That's kinda what Triumph is doing

If there were loopholes around homologation, then there should be no limits. 

I think an FE should have whatever the OEM can add for $3-5k over the standard model. That could mean better suspension, brakes, a pipe, ECM and porting, plus the graphics and a few shiny things like foot pegs. 
 

JMO..

What about the Mfg, do special orders? Like adjustable t clamps? Or seat height? Or ecu? Suspension set ups? 

And if KTM wanted to really push things, They could just pay the fine that is said to be the penalty for not meeting the requirements.  If they really wanted to go all in. As of the last time I read the rulebook there was NO penalty written in it. Just saying that it must be done. Maybe there is some penalty for breaking rules when a specific penalty is not written out, that I missed.  But so far nobody has shown anything to prove there is a set penalty.

That sounds great, but the cost of manufacturing and inventory at the factory level would price this at a point nobody is willing to pay

I’d pay 20g fore team bike spec. But zero extra for graphics and a muffler bullshit, 

Define "team bike spec"

Yeah that’s not very specific. A kit style suspension correct springs, tuned ecu and exhaust 

I have to agree with that.. 

*looks over at my fully mega specced out custom 14k E-mtb*

Surprised no one has brought up the KTM SXS's. In the mid to late 2000's (possibly earlier) KTM released "factory editions", but they were as close to factory bike as you could get.

They came with "Factory" Engine, Rads, Exhaust, Gearbox, Electronics, Brakes, and Suspension (All parts separately available trough their catalog also).

At the time they were double the cost of a standard bike and in extremely limited numbers, but from what I can tell they were able to sell them. (I'm lucky enough to have one now).

But I believe if they produced them again they would sell some, but I'm not sure it would be enough to be profitable or  to meet the homologation in the US.

Section A2 of the 2023 Supercross rules lists a range of offenses including:

21. Failure on the part of a manufacturer/distributor to fulfill the requirements of homologation agreements. 

Penalties are listed in section A1:

d. Race Direction may pronounce the following penalties:

1. Warning  2. Fine 3. Lap deductions or finishing position deductions 4. Time and/or point penalties  5. Disqualification  6. Suspension  7. Probation not exceeding 12 months from the date of offence 

Since it's the riders and not the "teams" that actually cop the penalties, that would be a major line for a team to cross.  

How are they rorting?  The FE/WE bikes don't have anything special on them that the actual factory bikes don't, and they are still bound by the same rules.  There's nothing to say that a full production bike can't be built/spec up to the full limits of the rules.