Stark Varg Racing Debut

Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/4/2023 1:43pm

Some cool shots from the event

374165471 694379172729901 1765226733452448549 n

374731296 685964153568029 3449145440808782564 n

Holeshot again (note that they get so excited that we have to remind them to brake)

375065852 685964716901306 6293762889904484552 n

Here was the layout

374701044 685960613568383 1237061292530627624 n

And just some guys hanging out between races

374734489 685962303568214 8671151697136075605 n

374771679 685962530234858 4435709657078403691 n.jpg?VersionId=2ZGM9No33T7If KKg

7
bayodome
Posts
1200
Joined
12/18/2006
Location
Mid-level, Hong Kong Island, HK
9/4/2023 2:05pm

Interesting interview with Thomas Do about his participation in the SX Tour in France.

Apparently the FFM is allowing the Stark Varg to compete in the SX Tour, but is NOT allowing Thomas to accrue any championship points on the bike. This is why you will not see his name in the current SX2 rankings, despite having decent finishes so far on the machine.

(It's in French, so hit the "CC" button in the bottom right hand corner, then select Auto-translate under "Settings" and pick whatever is your preferred language.)

 

 

4
1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/10/2023 2:16pm

The Varg was supposed to make its supermoto début in France Elite S1 with Adrien Goguet (multiple times national champ in S2) as a wildcard for the last race of the season.

Unfortunately he picked up a knee injury during practice so could not race. In the handful of laps he completed he got the 18th time out of 23 riders.

 

 

1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/16/2023 3:35pm

Arenacross festival is on and the Varg does not disappoint. For some reason Arnaud Tonus is not there but Thomas Do is, as well as Carl Ostermann.

On Friday Do ranked 6th and 7th in the main event Pro races, 6th overall. That's pretty decent for a brand new bike.

On Saturday it got better, Do qualified 1st, in the main event he got 2nd (under 1 s from race winner Tommy Searle) then 3rd, 3rd place overall for the day.

I bet Tortelli and co can't stop grinning.

5
3

The Shop

brocster
Posts
4562
Joined
6/9/2009
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
9/16/2023 3:48pm

but, but, but….

get ready, they’are coming

1
2
RACING
Posts
1889
Joined
6/9/2023
Location
Waddafeuque, FR
9/16/2023 3:56pm
bayodome wrote:
Interesting interview with Thomas Do about his participation in the SX Tour in France. Apparently the FFM is allowing the Stark Varg to compete in the...

Interesting interview with Thomas Do about his participation in the SX Tour in France.

Apparently the FFM is allowing the Stark Varg to compete in the SX Tour, but is NOT allowing Thomas to accrue any championship points on the bike. This is why you will not see his name in the current SX2 rankings, despite having decent finishes so far on the machine.

(It's in French, so hit the "CC" button in the bottom right hand corner, then select Auto-translate under "Settings" and pick whatever is your preferred language.)

 

 

Do is losing ground every lap and soooooo slow in the whoops...

Dry

9/16/2023 4:01pm
It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but...

It’s not the same a engine manufacturing. The batteries and electronics are a HUGE part of the cost. Yes, high end bikes will be expensive but companies will come into the space with more affordable prices. Because they can just pick a motor that is fast, get pre made controllers and then batteries. With in 5 years I bet they will have competitive electric MX bikes for $7000 or less. 

"pre made controllers and then batteries" You're kidding right? Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will...

"pre made controllers and then batteries"

You're kidding right?

Manufacturers are using standardized battery packs for scooters, but motocross bikes are used for racing, manufacturers will design and manufacture them in-house.

Look at the model electric MTB's have as far as picking a motor ,battery and controller.  And yes Stark said they pre sold 18K bikes at...

Look at the model electric MTB's have as far as picking a motor ,battery and controller.  And yes Stark said they pre sold 18K bikes at that price. But what if they could sell 100k bikes at $10K . How many people would buy a Varg if they cost less than a Gas 450? 

   Years down the road, If You have multiple brands building electric MX bikes that also use the controllers,motors and batteries  in other less demanding  types of motorcycles . All it takes is one of them to offer a base model  for $7K  and then others will follow if people decide they want  a cheaper alternative. Look at the Varg, the 60Hp and 80Hp bikes are the same except for the programing that allows the bike to put out 80HP.  It will cost less to develop one high demand power system and then tune it down with software for street motorcycles or  other  less demanding applications.    

 And while the demand dictates price to a degree, there is also the point at which it makes more money to sell a customer a new bike instead of just selling them parts. Increasing the demand by reducing the price.  Like  big TVs . If all of a sudden everybody can afford a  Varg  that may want one. They could sell a lot more and make more money by dropping the price.   Who wouldn't buy a new bike every year, or every 6 months if money was no object? Stark has said they developed the MX bike because it would be the most demanding use. And they plan on building other bikes.  What if Stark starts to manufacture the motors,controller's and batteries for a company that makes and sells 100's of thousands of street motorcycles?  Now the cost of engineering those motors and controllers per unit has dropped dramatically.

 

With any kind of manufacturing the more of the items You make, the less each item will cost up to a certain point. If You can spread out the development and tooling costs over a larger number of units, You can sell them for less each and make more money overall. I could see a world that has dirt bikes from different brands that use the same or similar motors built by a few bigger companies. Like how a KTM comes with WP suspension,   Renthal ODI or whoever makes their bars now, etc.  The motor, controller and battery would be another component.        

Exactly, that's why KTM,s were dearer in the 80,s and 90,s because they didn't make so many.

Luckily now that they sell double the big 4 combined, the prices are soòoooo much lower, they're almost giving them away.

1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/17/2023 12:16pm

Another day, another couple of podiums for Do on the Varg.

To recap this Arenacross festival 3 days event, in 6 pro races main event Do ranked

6 / 7 / 2 / 3 / 3 / 3

I'd say they got it dialed in pretty quick after the first day (even in the whoops).

This is just the beginning, Stark is starting to get some actual data from real competition, first generation first model, they will not go backwards from there.

2
4
plowboy
Posts
14407
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
9/17/2023 12:33pm
bayodome wrote:
Interesting interview with Thomas Do about his participation in the SX Tour in France. Apparently the FFM is allowing the Stark Varg to compete in the...

Interesting interview with Thomas Do about his participation in the SX Tour in France.

Apparently the FFM is allowing the Stark Varg to compete in the SX Tour, but is NOT allowing Thomas to accrue any championship points on the bike. This is why you will not see his name in the current SX2 rankings, despite having decent finishes so far on the machine.

(It's in French, so hit the "CC" button in the bottom right hand corner, then select Auto-translate under "Settings" and pick whatever is your preferred language.)

 

 

I was allowed to race at club events as an "international guest" back in the day.  Full 40 gate so I had to start back row and no points awarded but I got to run.

Sometimes you take what you're given and say, "thanks".

 

1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/19/2023 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2023 2:30pm

Dieter Rudolf, 4 times finisher of the RedBull Erzbergrodeo, finished 3rd for his first super Enduro race on the Varg

 

This weekend he finished 4th in the last round of super Enduro Austrian championship

 

 

The lack of clutch does not seem to hinder him.

2
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
9/19/2023 2:34pm
 

 

3
1
9/20/2023 4:28pm

There will be one racing this Saturday night at Little Okie in Madera.

I am going out to get some video for sure.

IMG 4077 1.jpeg?VersionId=J2HfC

4
3
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/7/2023 4:44pm Edited Date/Time 10/7/2023 4:46pm

Stark is getting serious about supercross (and supporting their pro riders).

And of course they can build a training track pretty much wherever they want without any activity time restrictions.

 

 

2
4
10/7/2023 5:06pm

Theres no way to make an electric bike equivalent to a gas theyre just too differEnt.  Were gonna go thru the whole 2/4 stroke rules thing and the AMA is gonna fuck things up again.  One is gonna show that its better and its all over for the loser.  They killed 2 strokes this way.  

13
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 4:08am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 4:56am

Round 5 of SX tour, Thomas Do is still competing on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), on Friday he got the 6th time in qualifying and ended 4th in the main event. We will see tonight if he can go one better.

I wish they would let him compete in SX1 as in Arenacross UK so they have similar power (Varg capped to 60 hp) and weight than the competition (in SX2 the Varg makes same power but is about 15 kg heavier than the rest).

1
4
insider
Posts
81
Joined
4/8/2023
Location
BE, BE
10/14/2023 7:25am
Beagle wrote:
Round 5 of SX tour, Thomas Do is still competing on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), on Friday he got the 6th time...

Round 5 of SX tour, Thomas Do is still competing on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), on Friday he got the 6th time in qualifying and ended 4th in the main event. We will see tonight if he can go one better.

I wish they would let him compete in SX1 as in Arenacross UK so they have similar power (Varg capped to 60 hp) and weight than the competition (in SX2 the Varg makes same power but is about 15 kg heavier than the rest).

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

2
12
mxpro252
Posts
459
Joined
11/15/2013
Location
USA
10/14/2023 8:06am
insider wrote:
You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to...

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

The weight and how unnoticeable it is while riding seems to be consistently brought up in reviews, along with how much easier it is to ride than an ICE. So I think your points should definitely be considered when trying to figure out how to make them comparable to existing bikes. 

1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 11:38am
Beagle wrote:
Round 5 of SX tour, Thomas Do is still competing on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), on Friday he got the 6th time...

Round 5 of SX tour, Thomas Do is still competing on the Varg in SX2 (limited to 48 hp), on Friday he got the 6th time in qualifying and ended 4th in the main event. We will see tonight if he can go one better.

I wish they would let him compete in SX1 as in Arenacross UK so they have similar power (Varg capped to 60 hp) and weight than the competition (in SX2 the Varg makes same power but is about 15 kg heavier than the rest).

insider wrote:
You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to...

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

Are you ok? You sound all worked up just after reading about some SX results on an electric bike? It's probably safer for you to stay away from this thread, and it's only 4th place for now. Obviously don't take my word for it, I encourage you to seek a medical opinion.

I'm sorry I brought up facts that seemed relevant to me such as power and weight and did not remind everyone  you don't shift on an electric bike. Luckily for us your astute observation brought this fact to light for anyone who did not already know this very basic fact. Did I also forget to mention that you cannot fill it up at the gas station and that it takes a wee bit longer to get back to full? Should I copy and paste the spec sheet under every post?

My idea of bike racing is to see the fastest guys on the fastest bikes battling it out on the track. I couldn't give a rats' ass about how it's propelled, I want fast and that's it. That's just my humble opinion and you're very welcome to disagree.

4
2
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 11:43am Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 12:53pm
insider wrote:
You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to...

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

mxpro252 wrote:
The weight and how unnoticeable it is while riding seems to be consistently brought up in reviews, along with how much easier it is to ride...

The weight and how unnoticeable it is while riding seems to be consistently brought up in reviews, along with how much easier it is to ride than an ICE. So I think your points should definitely be considered when trying to figure out how to make them comparable to existing bikes. 

That's fair, and that's exactly what the French, British, Australian federations (and others) are trying to do by allowing the Varg in direct competition with ICE bikes.

They're trying to figure out a set of rules to ensure fair competition. In the end, if the experiment is not successful that would mean a different category for electric bikes. Then the question is what happens on the day the electric class becomes the fastest class? 

2
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 12:51pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 1:23pm
insider wrote:
You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to...

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

Thank you for bringing up this fundamentalist issue, it's kind of the elephant in the room really.

On every single thread about ebikes there are guys exposing ad nauseam their unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs, their "truth" about what a dirt bike should be and should not be, trying to dictate how people should and should not have fun, parading their "purity" pledging to stay on the "right" side of life and swearing to never ever try anything outside of what they know is the "right way" for dirt bikes. One last hallmark of fundamentalists is to turn everything into an issue of "us" vs "them".

It seems particularly difficult for such fundamentalists to process that you can be excited by new options available such as the Varg and at the same time be a dirt bike fanatic and obviously proud owner of any number of 2 strokes/4 strokes. This despicable mentality is also why legends like Travis Pastrana are being called "sold out" just because they can enjoy both 2 strokes and electric bikes.

There is no "us" vs "them", we all love dirtbikes, that's why we're here, who cares if it's ICE or electric, what the f*** is wrong with you ?

You don't like EMX even though you've never tried one? Your problem, not mine. Or maybe they don't suit your needs, they're not practical for you or you can't ride without noise? Fine, whatever floats your boat, nobody is forcing you to like EMX, just ride and enjoy whatever you want.

Now, can you accept that people may have different taste, may be more open minded, should we be allowed by the dogma police to share and discuss our interest for electric bikes?

Finally, why the f*** are you reading threads dedicated to electric bikes if you don't give a s*** about them? Laughing

7
4
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 10/14/2023 2:43pm

And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2!

To sum up Do results on the Varg in SX2 so far :

6th, +29 s from the win (+19 s from podium)

5th, +24 s (+17 s podium)

4th, +25 s (+6 s podium)

6th, +17 s (+10 s podium)

Not setting the world on fire yet, though podium is not that far.

3
number six
Posts
383
Joined
2/27/2019
Location
efnli77643qrv, FM, USA
10/14/2023 4:27pm
Beagle wrote:
And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2! To sum up Do results...

And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2!

To sum up Do results on the Varg in SX2 so far :

6th, +29 s from the win (+19 s from podium)

5th, +24 s (+17 s podium)

4th, +25 s (+6 s podium)

6th, +17 s (+10 s podium)

Not setting the world on fire yet, though podium is not that far.

Did he post similar results on a gas bike ?    

Or were those results better, worse on average ?  

1
10/14/2023 5:17pm
insider wrote:
You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to...

You casually forget to mention the advantages of not having to clutch and shift but eager to mention it’s 15KG to heavy. If you want to kill the sport by replacing the current ICE bikes just say so, you already sound like a fundamentalist so we can handle that as well.

mxpro252 wrote:
The weight and how unnoticeable it is while riding seems to be consistently brought up in reviews, along with how much easier it is to ride...

The weight and how unnoticeable it is while riding seems to be consistently brought up in reviews, along with how much easier it is to ride than an ICE. So I think your points should definitely be considered when trying to figure out how to make them comparable to existing bikes. 

Beagle wrote:
That's fair, and that's exactly what the French, British, Australian federations (and others) are trying to do by allowing the Varg in direct competition with ICE...

That's fair, and that's exactly what the French, British, Australian federations (and others) are trying to do by allowing the Varg in direct competition with ICE bikes.

They're trying to figure out a set of rules to ensure fair competition. In the end, if the experiment is not successful that would mean a different category for electric bikes. Then the question is what happens on the day the electric class becomes the fastest class? 

Electric class will only be the fastest class when the fastest riders are in it, 90% rider, 10% bike, that will only happen when the highest paid pros are in the electric class, that will only happen when the other manufacturers pay their factory rider to race the electric class.

2
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/14/2023 11:55pm Edited Date/Time 10/15/2023 12:11am
Beagle wrote:
And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2! To sum up Do results...

And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2!

To sum up Do results on the Varg in SX2 so far :

6th, +29 s from the win (+19 s from podium)

5th, +24 s (+17 s podium)

4th, +25 s (+6 s podium)

6th, +17 s (+10 s podium)

Not setting the world on fire yet, though podium is not that far.

number six wrote:

Did he post similar results on a gas bike ?    

Or were those results better, worse on average ?  

Last year Thomas Do finished 4th in SX2 championship on the Honda (1 win + another podium).

Maxime Desprey, who won every single event so far this year, was not in it last year.

Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/15/2023 12:05am
Electric class will only be the fastest class when the fastest riders are in it, 90% rider, 10% bike, that will only happen when the highest...

Electric class will only be the fastest class when the fastest riders are in it, 90% rider, 10% bike, that will only happen when the highest paid pros are in the electric class, that will only happen when the other manufacturers pay their factory rider to race the electric class.

Agreed about the riders/bike mix though I feel you just need to find the right rider to show the bike potential.

Once you get even just one rider beating 450 race times things will get interesting.

I feel that Thomas Do's results (maybe even more so the podiums in Arenacross UK against 450) will encourage more riders to give the Varg a shot in national championships in 2024.

5
RACING
Posts
1889
Joined
6/9/2023
Location
Waddafeuque, FR
10/15/2023 1:21am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2023 2:24am
Beagle wrote:
And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2! To sum up Do results...

And that's another 6th place for Do in Saturday main event. Maxime Desprey is running with it, still undefeated in SX2!

To sum up Do results on the Varg in SX2 so far :

6th, +29 s from the win (+19 s from podium)

5th, +24 s (+17 s podium)

4th, +25 s (+6 s podium)

6th, +17 s (+10 s podium)

Not setting the world on fire yet, though podium is not that far.

number six wrote:

Did he post similar results on a gas bike ?    

Or were those results better, worse on average ?  

Since he podiumed the 2023 championship's second race in the 450 class on a YZF before switching to the Varg, I'd say worse.

1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/15/2023 4:48am Edited Date/Time 10/15/2023 4:55am

Comparing Do's results in 2022 SX2 championship on a Honda with his current SX2 results on the Varg it's pretty similar.

True he started 2023 SX tour on a Yam in SX1. I got curious, in fact Do 4th place race time on Friday main event SX2 would have placed him 4th in Friday SX1 main event.

Similarly, his 6th place race time on Saturday SX2 would have translated to 6th place in Saturday SX1 main event.

That is with a 48 hp Varg (60% of max power).

This shows that if/when they let him race SX1 with 60 hp Varg (75% of max power) against the 450s quite probably his results won't be worse.

5
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/19/2023 6:36am

I have already posted this in a different Stark thread but here is the part relevant to racing.

Long interview with Seb Tortelli :

https://dailymotocross.fr/sebastien-tortelli-lidee-etait-de-redonner-un…

They are preparing an official Stark team in which Seb will be involved. Right now he's with Thomas Do (SX2 wildcard, not ranked) at every round of the SX tour. They are waiting for FFM green light to go on as regular competitors for 2024 french championships.

Following Do's great success (2 podiums) at the first 2024 round of Arenacross UK they will race the whole season (next round Manchester January 6th).

After some successful testing with the Australian federation, Stark will also compete in AusProMX and AuSX in 2024.

Do is written in as "to be confirmed" in SX2 for Paris Supercross next month.

3
1
Beagle
Posts
1795
Joined
8/3/2023
Location
Toulouse, FR
10/21/2023 1:31pm

Some shots from SX tour rounds 5 and 6

1 28

2 15

3 12

4 15.jpg?VersionId=mDF

5 9.jpg?VersionId=aGU2O12ac04ncc8W2cnkPCAWSzwbLAG

6 5

2
3
tek14
Posts
4929
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa, FI
10/21/2023 2:37pm

Would be nice to know how they setup that bike compared to 4-stroke bike at same track and how much can play engine braking. Even RC Cars have different ways to adjust how engine braking acts and that is proper setup tool both on and offroad cars. 

1

Post a reply to: Stark Varg Racing Debut

The Latest