Washington Rider Shot and Killed

Gmyersdork
Posts
409
Joined
2/16/2021
Location
Beverly Hills, FL, USA
10/5/2023 1:33pm

I'm farmer bob, I have my property posted, no trespassing. My kids and friend's ride on posted property, they are permitted to. Why do other folks outside of our group think they can ride there without permission? Happens all the time. Why do a lot of folks feel they're entitled? As posted previously,  don't trespass, it solves the issue. I dont condone violence,  something happened to escalate this to the unfortunate outcome 

10
3
Radical
Posts
2929
Joined
10/20/2012
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
10/5/2023 4:30pm
It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has...

It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has zero to do with the 2nd amendment.  This is on federal land and the "guard" was a federal agent. 

How in the hell do you get into a physical altercation with a federal agent or any law enforcement?  I don't know, but it will not end well.  I highly doubt the agent just shot them for riding dirt bikes.

I have no idea what actually happened and we never will, but just trying to share this is not a gun ownership issue or citizen dispute.

Radical wrote:
If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life. Resolving issues without violence should always be the first...

If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life.

Resolving issues without violence should always be the first goal, but mess with someone's kid, there's going to be trouble.

We need to see details on what happened.  It's possible the victim and his son handled the interaction poorly, but it could also turn out that the security guard is at fault.  If he is, I could give a F whether he's a federal agent.  He needs to be held accountable.

The rules of engagement in this country should be equal for everyone, whether or not they're in law enforcement.

If it's not right for a citizen to shoot someone, it should not be OK for law enforcement to shoot someone in that exact same situation.

mxb2 wrote:

Would you take a child on private property?   And if approached by police,security etc, refuse to cooperate? Knowing you dont belong there? 

When I was a kid, the only places to ride around my house were all private property.  The question wasn't if it was legal.  The question was if it was cool to ride there.

If it was a cool place to ride (meaning no one was getting ticketed for it), then yes, there are places I would take my son.

That was the culture in San Diego way back when.  Not just for me.  That's how most people saw it.

If someone approached and asked me to leave, I definitely would, and I'd have a cordial conversation with them about riding there.

But, like I said in my post, resolving issues without violence is the way to go.  I'm not going to purposely start trouble.  But, if my kid is in danger, I'm going to do what I have to to protect him.

We don't know whether the father started trouble, or if the guy who shot him did.  I'm hoping we'll get the truth, and most importantly, that his family does.

There's another issue about riding on private land.

When I was 13 or 14, I reached out to the owner of some trails by my house, and asked if we could ride there.

He spoke with his attorneys, then told me in so many words that he was OK with us riding there, but he couldn't actually give us permission or he could be liable.  So we rode there for about 3 years until I moved.

He was a very cool guy.

8
6
Radical
Posts
2929
Joined
10/20/2012
Location
San Diego, CA, USA
10/5/2023 4:37pm
GPrider wrote:
agreed, federal land will be protected by a federal officer, not a rent a cop. We have nearby trails where I grew up riding on. Because...

agreed, federal land will be protected by a federal officer, not a rent a cop. We have nearby trails where I grew up riding on. Because it was on federal land, Miramar navel base stated patrolling it and arresting us all, and not with a smile. Getting thrown in the brig and pushed around. Running from them was not an option. I am guessing getting into a physical confrontation would possibly also end badly. Those guys don't fuck around. Just sayin

It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has...

It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has zero to do with the 2nd amendment.  This is on federal land and the "guard" was a federal agent. 

How in the hell do you get into a physical altercation with a federal agent or any law enforcement?  I don't know, but it will not end well.  I highly doubt the agent just shot them for riding dirt bikes.

I have no idea what actually happened and we never will, but just trying to share this is not a gun ownership issue or citizen dispute.

Radical wrote:
If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life. Resolving issues without violence should always be the first...

If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life.

Resolving issues without violence should always be the first goal, but mess with someone's kid, there's going to be trouble.

We need to see details on what happened.  It's possible the victim and his son handled the interaction poorly, but it could also turn out that the security guard is at fault.  If he is, I could give a F whether he's a federal agent.  He needs to be held accountable.

The rules of engagement in this country should be equal for everyone, whether or not they're in law enforcement.

If it's not right for a citizen to shoot someone, it should not be OK for law enforcement to shoot someone in that exact same situation.

For those who downvoted, I'm not offended.  But what do you disagree with me on?

4
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
10/5/2023 4:42pm
Radical wrote:
If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life. Resolving issues without violence should always be the first...

If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life.

Resolving issues without violence should always be the first goal, but mess with someone's kid, there's going to be trouble.

We need to see details on what happened.  It's possible the victim and his son handled the interaction poorly, but it could also turn out that the security guard is at fault.  If he is, I could give a F whether he's a federal agent.  He needs to be held accountable.

The rules of engagement in this country should be equal for everyone, whether or not they're in law enforcement.

If it's not right for a citizen to shoot someone, it should not be OK for law enforcement to shoot someone in that exact same situation.

mxb2 wrote:

Would you take a child on private property?   And if approached by police,security etc, refuse to cooperate? Knowing you dont belong there? 

Radical wrote:
When I was a kid, the only places to ride around my house were all private property.  The question wasn't if it was legal.  The question...

When I was a kid, the only places to ride around my house were all private property.  The question wasn't if it was legal.  The question was if it was cool to ride there.

If it was a cool place to ride (meaning no one was getting ticketed for it), then yes, there are places I would take my son.

That was the culture in San Diego way back when.  Not just for me.  That's how most people saw it.

If someone approached and asked me to leave, I definitely would, and I'd have a cordial conversation with them about riding there.

But, like I said in my post, resolving issues without violence is the way to go.  I'm not going to purposely start trouble.  But, if my kid is in danger, I'm going to do what I have to to protect him.

We don't know whether the father started trouble, or if the guy who shot him did.  I'm hoping we'll get the truth, and most importantly, that his family does.

There's another issue about riding on private land.

When I was 13 or 14, I reached out to the owner of some trails by my house, and asked if we could ride there.

He spoke with his attorneys, then told me in so many words that he was OK with us riding there, but he couldn't actually give us permission or he could be liable.  So we rode there for about 3 years until I moved.

He was a very cool guy.

If its illegal, thats the first problem you have put yourself in, everybody handles stuff different. Some end in simple resolutions, some tragic.  Rolling the dice on the outcome. 

1

The Shop

pdub187
Posts
765
Joined
1/28/2013
Location
AU
10/5/2023 5:00pm

America is such a wild place.

5
11
10/5/2023 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2023 5:19pm
Coach529 wrote:
It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing. Emotions...

It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing.

Emotions are high locally. Eventually it will come out exactly what went down, and if the guard was justified in the shooting.

 

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

6
18
freeh
Posts
806
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
10/5/2023 5:19pm
Coach529 wrote:
It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing. Emotions...

It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing.

Emotions are high locally. Eventually it will come out exactly what went down, and if the guard was justified in the shooting.

 

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

I was about to say the same.  I can't imagine a scenario where the use of lethal force was justified.  

3
13
early
Posts
10079
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/5/2023 5:22pm
Radical wrote:
When I was a kid, the only places to ride around my house were all private property.  The question wasn't if it was legal.  The question...

When I was a kid, the only places to ride around my house were all private property.  The question wasn't if it was legal.  The question was if it was cool to ride there.

If it was a cool place to ride (meaning no one was getting ticketed for it), then yes, there are places I would take my son.

That was the culture in San Diego way back when.  Not just for me.  That's how most people saw it.

If someone approached and asked me to leave, I definitely would, and I'd have a cordial conversation with them about riding there.

But, like I said in my post, resolving issues without violence is the way to go.  I'm not going to purposely start trouble.  But, if my kid is in danger, I'm going to do what I have to to protect him.

We don't know whether the father started trouble, or if the guy who shot him did.  I'm hoping we'll get the truth, and most importantly, that his family does.

There's another issue about riding on private land.

When I was 13 or 14, I reached out to the owner of some trails by my house, and asked if we could ride there.

He spoke with his attorneys, then told me in so many words that he was OK with us riding there, but he couldn't actually give us permission or he could be liable.  So we rode there for about 3 years until I moved.

He was a very cool guy.

The reality of today, and the lesson moving forward from this tragedy should be whatever you've been doing for the last 20 years doesn't mean jack if the land owner doesn't want you riding there today.

The industry needs to get its act together to preserve and expand legal riding areas and rights for private property owners to ride on their own land. Offroad motorcycling won't survive if it relies on ponying up $10k for a bike to ride past no trespassing signs.

12
Coach529
Posts
413
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID, USA
10/5/2023 5:26pm
Coach529 wrote:
It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing. Emotions...

It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing.

Emotions are high locally. Eventually it will come out exactly what went down, and if the guard was justified in the shooting.

 

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

I don't disagree....but we do not know if he was or was not armed. Also it was 2 against 1.

3
2
Farmer J
Posts
984
Joined
11/26/2022
Location
Steelville, MO, USA
10/5/2023 5:39pm

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible. Say the guard was being out of line.  Just cooperate and deal with it after in court / file a report. Going after a guard or land owner isn't going to end well as seen here. The guard or landowner doesn't know your mindset and you're already breaking rules. Whose to say he didn't feel threatened and worried the guys were going to use his weapon against him or that they don't have their own weapon.

4
3
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
10/5/2023 5:59pm

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

Farmer J wrote:
There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible...

There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible. Say the guard was being out of line.  Just cooperate and deal with it after in court / file a report. Going after a guard or land owner isn't going to end well as seen here. The guard or landowner doesn't know your mindset and you're already breaking rules. Whose to say he didn't feel threatened and worried the guys were going to use his weapon against him or that they don't have their own weapon.

Yep, plenty of officers have been killed with their own weapon. Bottom line,stay off private property, cooperate with authorities.  Really not that difficult. 

13
2
mxrose3
Posts
2376
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Delmar, DE, USA
10/5/2023 6:02pm

I can't help but think if the rent-a-cop asked the two riders POLITELY to leave the property, that this wouldn't have escalated to this.

3
17
Farmer J
Posts
984
Joined
11/26/2022
Location
Steelville, MO, USA
10/5/2023 6:07pm

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

Farmer J wrote:
There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible...

There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible. Say the guard was being out of line.  Just cooperate and deal with it after in court / file a report. Going after a guard or land owner isn't going to end well as seen here. The guard or landowner doesn't know your mindset and you're already breaking rules. Whose to say he didn't feel threatened and worried the guys were going to use his weapon against him or that they don't have their own weapon.

mxb2 wrote:

Yep, plenty of officers have been killed with their own weapon. Bottom line,stay off private property, cooperate with authorities.  Really not that difficult. 

I dont think many of these people understand because they don't have land and have to deal with all the bs associated with it. Heaven forbid someone gets hurt then its also your fault even if they don't try to sue you which is doubtful insurance will. 

6
2
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
10/5/2023 6:22pm
Farmer J wrote:
There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible...

There's no justified reason to be riding at a place that isn't legal or you don't have written permission from the land owner. Thats just irresponsible. Say the guard was being out of line.  Just cooperate and deal with it after in court / file a report. Going after a guard or land owner isn't going to end well as seen here. The guard or landowner doesn't know your mindset and you're already breaking rules. Whose to say he didn't feel threatened and worried the guys were going to use his weapon against him or that they don't have their own weapon.

mxb2 wrote:

Yep, plenty of officers have been killed with their own weapon. Bottom line,stay off private property, cooperate with authorities.  Really not that difficult. 

Farmer J wrote:
I dont think many of these people understand because they don't have land and have to deal with all the bs associated with it. Heaven forbid...

I dont think many of these people understand because they don't have land and have to deal with all the bs associated with it. Heaven forbid someone gets hurt then its also your fault even if they don't try to sue you which is doubtful insurance will. 

Yep,  go ride at a track, pay your fee save some problems 

5
2
Gworm
Posts
2835
Joined
4/5/2017
Location
Monett, MO, USA
10/5/2023 7:05pm
GangGreen wrote:
Shot forTrespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land...

Shot forTrespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!!

Shot for Physical Altercation - Always justified.

Actually, U.S. Citizens NEVER really own their land, so how could a Power Company.   Appears there are plenty of good riding around that area.

image-20231005135842-1

  If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!
 

Can you explain this statement?

3
StillSmokin
Posts
739
Joined
3/18/2022
Location
Edmond, OK, USA
10/5/2023 7:05pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2023 7:06pm
Coach529 wrote:
It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing. Emotions...

It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing.

Emotions are high locally. Eventually it will come out exactly what went down, and if the guard was justified in the shooting.

 

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

freeh wrote:

I was about to say the same.  I can't imagine a scenario where the use of lethal force was justified.  

You two should browse the darker parts of the internet for a day or two.

1
brocster
Posts
4639
Joined
6/9/2009
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
10/5/2023 7:31pm

Sad state of affairs in both directions regarding this terrible situation and even more so, our country

1
wwdiii
Posts
2581
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
League City, TX, USA
10/5/2023 7:36pm
Boomslang wrote:

Sorry, can someone explain what makes a federal agent so special? Are they not the same as law enforcement? 

I'm from Africa so forgive me.

I can’t give you the answer you want but here is the difference in simple terms.  Federal owned land and private owned lands fall under a different set of laws and jurisdiction than private owned property.  Different laws, judges, law enforcement you name it.  I would guess in South African there are land/property owned by individuals and owned by the South African government.  Therefore law enforced by different entities if I had to guess.

I can’t say about a contract security guard on federal land providing security.  But a US federal law enforcement officer, federal Game warden or whoever federal are not to be fucked with.  They are the wrong bear to poke.  Same with trespassing.  Trespassing on federal land in this country is not always the smartest thing to do.  

With all that said, if you read the article it says being investigated by local law enforcement if I read it correctly.  Which kinda says the shooting was not on federal owned property.

I feel bad for this all families involved, a life was lost.  Then again rights is right and wrong is wrong.  It’ should be easier to march than fight, especially with someone with a gun.  

 

3
Farmer J
Posts
984
Joined
11/26/2022
Location
Steelville, MO, USA
10/5/2023 7:44pm
GangGreen wrote:
Shot forTrespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land...

Shot forTrespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!!

Shot for Physical Altercation - Always justified.

Actually, U.S. Citizens NEVER really own their land, so how could a Power Company.   Appears there are plenty of good riding around that area.

image-20231005135842-1

Gworm wrote:
  If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!   Can you explain...

  If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!
 

Can you explain this statement?

People with this mindset are always the problem. "I've lived here 40 years and always came here" "we've always rode here" its like they think they're special and entitled to anything.  

5
3
Madkiwi
Posts
330
Joined
8/20/2018
Location
Auckland, NZ
10/5/2023 8:06pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2023 8:09pm
pdub187 wrote:

America is such a wild place.

And they don't seem to see that.

It's sad, a place that is so amazingly awesome and has so much coolness and yet so much scary stuff and is significantly out of step with the rest of the Western world.

 - Imagine how different it would be if it was like the rest of the world with almost no guns and tax-funded general health care.

No doubt down-voted or clipped, but just think of that last line just for a moment, and how it would impact your life for the better. I'd gladly discuss an outside perspective via message if anyone wants to.

GangGreen wrote:

Shot for trespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!!

Shot for Physical Altercation - Always justified.


For us outside of the States, it is almost totally unfathomable that a citizen, security guard OR officer of any department of law can shoot an unarmed person and not be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Anyway, my sincere condolences to the family, for whatever reason, a tragic thing to go from going out to ride a dirt bike with your son for a bit of fun and family bonding to the father dying. Just sad.

9
17
10/5/2023 8:20pm

If you’re going to ride somewhere you’re not supposed to it’s probably best not to be an asshole when you’re confronted about it. 
 

Not a good example of the “motocross community.” Sounds more like an inconsiderate douchebag being an asshole.

5
2
mxb2
Posts
22437
Joined
6/15/2010
Location
Bowie, MD, USA
10/5/2023 8:23pm
If you’re going to ride somewhere you’re not supposed to it’s probably best not to be an asshole when you’re confronted about it.    Not a...

If you’re going to ride somewhere you’re not supposed to it’s probably best not to be an asshole when you’re confronted about it. 
 

Not a good example of the “motocross community.” Sounds more like an inconsiderate douchebag being an asshole.

Perfect, first 3 lines. 

1
1
10/5/2023 8:27pm
If you’re going to ride somewhere you’re not supposed to it’s probably best not to be an asshole when you’re confronted about it.    Not a...

If you’re going to ride somewhere you’re not supposed to it’s probably best not to be an asshole when you’re confronted about it. 
 

Not a good example of the “motocross community.” Sounds more like an inconsiderate douchebag being an asshole.

Inconsiderate douchebags being assholes don't deserve to be shot.

3
11
FGR01
Posts
6148
Joined
10/1/2006
Location
USA
Fantasy
10/5/2023 8:29pm
pdub187 wrote:

America is such a wild place.

Madkiwi wrote:
And they don't seem to see that. It's sad, a place that is so amazingly awesome and has so much coolness and yet so much scary...

And they don't seem to see that.

It's sad, a place that is so amazingly awesome and has so much coolness and yet so much scary stuff and is significantly out of step with the rest of the Western world.

 - Imagine how different it would be if it was like the rest of the world with almost no guns and tax-funded general health care.

No doubt down-voted or clipped, but just think of that last line just for a moment, and how it would impact your life for the better. I'd gladly discuss an outside perspective via message if anyone wants to.

GangGreen wrote:

Shot for trespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!!

Shot for Physical Altercation - Always justified.


For us outside of the States, it is almost totally unfathomable that a citizen, security guard OR officer of any department of law can shoot an unarmed person and not be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Anyway, my sincere condolences to the family, for whatever reason, a tragic thing to go from going out to ride a dirt bike with your son for a bit of fun and family bonding to the father dying. Just sad.

6
1
PNWMXer
Posts
1796
Joined
1/13/2022
Location
Washington, WA, USA
10/5/2023 8:32pm
Coach529 wrote:
It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing. Emotions...

It is a really sad deal. It is private property but people have been riding there for 20+ years........but still it is marked no trespassing.

Emotions are high locally. Eventually it will come out exactly what went down, and if the guard was justified in the shooting.

 

There’s no justified reason to shoot and kill an unarmed person. 
 

RIP to this man.  This is horrific.

There’s no such thing as an “unarmed” LE confrontation. The LEO brings a gun to every one. If said officer is in imminent risk of having said gun taken away (either by force or incapacitation), it’s a deadly force encounter whether the suspect brought a gun or not. The last time I looked, the rate of officers who had their gun taken away being killed by that gun was in the upper 80/low 90% range. 
No judgment either way on this incident as I have few facts-but felt the above clarification may be relevant.

Regardless of the how/why, tragic situation for all involved.

6
TalinH112
Posts
1569
Joined
1/30/2022
Location
Belgrade, MT, USA
10/5/2023 8:36pm

Trespassing is wrong, don’t give a shit how long a “trail” has been there you don’t have imminent domain because you rode there before and nothing happened. If you have permission to be there then so be it, if you don’t and go anyway you’re subject to consequences. Go anywhere besides California and the west coast and this is COMMON KNOWLEDGE! If these two dudes were putting the boots to an officer and he felt they were going to kill him this shooting is justified. We don’t know until all the facts come out, all we do know if these guys went riding as a father and a son to have a good day bonding and a terrible chain of events took place. Feel bad for all involved, as I’m sure the last thing that officer wanted to do when he went to work was shoot two people. 

7
1
dkurtd
Posts
1143
Joined
4/15/2018
Location
USA
10/5/2023 8:48pm
Farmer J wrote:
I dont think many of these people understand because they don't have land and have to deal with all the bs associated with it. Heaven forbid...

I dont think many of these people understand because they don't have land and have to deal with all the bs associated with it. Heaven forbid someone gets hurt then its also your fault even if they don't try to sue you which is doubtful insurance will. 

You're absolutely right, none of the people saying it's ok to trespass have ever been sued by a trespasser or the trespasser's insurance company when they got hurt while trespassing.  And the insurance companies will sue a landowner to recover any costs they incurr, regardless of the circumstances.   If it's not your land stay off of it.  Go find a track and pay your practice fee money and stuff like this won't happen.

5
10/5/2023 8:55pm
It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has...

It is incredible to me people posting here apparently cannot read.  This was not farmer Bob kicking them off his land by shooting them and has zero to do with the 2nd amendment.  This is on federal land and the "guard" was a federal agent. 

How in the hell do you get into a physical altercation with a federal agent or any law enforcement?  I don't know, but it will not end well.  I highly doubt the agent just shot them for riding dirt bikes.

I have no idea what actually happened and we never will, but just trying to share this is not a gun ownership issue or citizen dispute.

Radical wrote:
If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life. Resolving issues without violence should always be the first...

If they're attacking my son, I'm going to protect him, even if it costs me my life.

Resolving issues without violence should always be the first goal, but mess with someone's kid, there's going to be trouble.

We need to see details on what happened.  It's possible the victim and his son handled the interaction poorly, but it could also turn out that the security guard is at fault.  If he is, I could give a F whether he's a federal agent.  He needs to be held accountable.

The rules of engagement in this country should be equal for everyone, whether or not they're in law enforcement.

If it's not right for a citizen to shoot someone, it should not be OK for law enforcement to shoot someone in that exact same situation.

Radical wrote:

For those who downvoted, I'm not offended.  But what do you disagree with me on?

You seem to be making up your own facts to fit your opinion. This isn't about you or your son or what you would do. This is about what happened that none of us saw or know what lead up to the shooting. The facts will come out and then we will hear what happened. 

3
8tensolutions
Posts
3542
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
10/5/2023 9:27pm
pdub187 wrote:

America is such a wild place.

Madkiwi wrote:
And they don't seem to see that. It's sad, a place that is so amazingly awesome and has so much coolness and yet so much scary...

And they don't seem to see that.

It's sad, a place that is so amazingly awesome and has so much coolness and yet so much scary stuff and is significantly out of step with the rest of the Western world.

 - Imagine how different it would be if it was like the rest of the world with almost no guns and tax-funded general health care.

No doubt down-voted or clipped, but just think of that last line just for a moment, and how it would impact your life for the better. I'd gladly discuss an outside perspective via message if anyone wants to.

GangGreen wrote:

Shot for trespassing - Not justified.   If the trail/ track is there and has been there Farmer J, it's not yours, even if you buy the land !!!

Shot for Physical Altercation - Always justified.


For us outside of the States, it is almost totally unfathomable that a citizen, security guard OR officer of any department of law can shoot an unarmed person and not be prosecuted for manslaughter.

Anyway, my sincere condolences to the family, for whatever reason, a tragic thing to go from going out to ride a dirt bike with your son for a bit of fun and family bonding to the father dying. Just sad.

A quick google search found multiple shootings this year in New Zealand on both sides of the law.  In addition, New Zealand's total population is less than one major city in the US.....so not exactly comparable.  I live in Salt Lake City and compared to Chicago for example Chicago looks like a war zone, yet we are part of the same country.  

3
3

Post a reply to: Washington Rider Shot and Killed

The Latest