Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
Monster? Really? 🤔
Mosiman and Swoll were sponsored by Monster?
SeelyCoin Triumph Racing
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Certainly some differences but those clutch covers look like they'll swap between brands just fine
Not even close.
EDIT: I decided to try a very high tech and surely 100% accurate mock up just for fun. Again, it's similar but the bolt hole spacing is different and even if you rotate the KTM clutch cover to try and line a couple up, they still seem to be too far away for it to be a plug and play situation. It's clearly not just another rebranded KTM/Husky/GASGAS.
EDIT 2: I'm wrong. See my next comment below...
Miniscule differences.
Is that a circlip holding in the oil view window though?
Sure is
I'm no engineer but that seems horribly dumb.
Yes sir
Oh, that's a better photo than I found. Lemme try a mock up quick. Wait, what year is that bike?
Okay, so I was comparing it to the new KTM motors. The older, 2022 clutch cover does line up exactly.
And now looking back more at the old engine style, I can see a lot more similarities. I've been comparing it to the 2022.5+ motors. 🤦♂️
If they based it off the previous generation KTM engines that were notoriously lacking in power compared to the other factory teams, that is extremely unfortunate.
They talked so much about how innovative the ‘low end power’ and ‘top end power’ the motor is… VTEC? Or did they give no details because it’s just another engine like all the others?
is there anything particularly interesting about their MOTO 2 engines??
It is basically a carbon copy of the 2022 KTM 250. Every single component is in the exact same place. Finger follower pivots, motor mounts, coolant nipples, breather hose, slave cylinder, throttle body, oil screen and drain plug… they didn’t even modify the clutch cover bolt pattern. The only differences I can see are superficial castings.
All the talk of Triumph’s Moto2 knowledge got us hyped for something uniquely Triumph. What they have delivered is the last gen KTM engine with a crappier clutch. Nothing wrong with that, just sort of a let down.
I admitted in an earlier comment (the one you pulled that photo from) that I was looking at the most recent version of the KTM motor, not an older generation so all the differences I was pointing out was based on the current KTM motor. I didn't think to look back at the older motor but I can see the major similarities now and I agree that it is a bit of a let down and I feel like an idiot for giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Well shoot man, I quoted your old post with a pic stolen from your new post, without bothering to read what you had typed.
Sorry about that. Didn’t mean to call you out. Was just trying to summarize the “looks like a KTM”argument.
For the record, I hope Triumph’s new bike is awesome.
https://youtu.be/YJPS3rtjQak
Pit Row
There’s no room for a VVT of any sort. Even the very simple and small mechanical VVT from Suzuki needs some space in the cylinder head.
The moto2 engine is very different from the engine they presented and in itself nothing special. It’s a hoped up version of their 3 cylinder street bike engine with a bucket style valve actuation. It pumps out about 140 hp with 765 ccm. Nothing crazy or high tech here. https://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/for-the-ride/racing/moto2/engine
Edit: typo and link
Could they‘ve just leased or bought the design from KTM?
Or maybe the engine will be produced by KTM in a Triumph spec and delivered to them. Would definitely be the way with the least financial risk and investment from Triumph‘s side. (EDIT: from the video posted above it looks like they lease/bought the KTM design and have the engine produced in Asia)
Then their way of producing the frame (lots of hand building with cnc‘d parts) would make sense too. Again minimal investment in tooling and production facilities to reduce the financial risk of such a project.
I believe bijaj a major manufacturer is an OEM supplier to both ktm and triumph. So it’s not to surprising the cases look similar. What will be more telling is if they made changes to the head, bore/ stroke, cam profiles, throttle body size etc…. If it’s a full copy that’s disappointing.
Very innovate from Triumph. Why they just didnt say they bought old KTM engine to use in their frame? That should work for 450 as well so why they delay that model? Even better 350f KTM engine will fit same frame.
I mean it is disappointing if it is just a KTM powerplant just due to the fact that it's not unique or they're own, however we are getting to a point where the bikes difference is going to be with frames, ergos and suspension especially with E-bikes coming up.
I don't believe the Triumph bikes/chassis/engine are KTM copies in any way. Of course there will be similarities - there are across all brands - but people seem so stuck on this idea that Triumph has just taken KTM designs. How come?
Everything we know about the Triumph motocross bikes - bikesales.com.au
If this is the case then it makes sense that it looks like theyre using the ktm aluminum frame and the 2022 ktm engine. They already have multiple brands out now which use the steel frame. This gives the company the chance to appeal to the aluminum frame side of the market.
Putting their 2022 engine in an aluminum frame is going to give it a much different feel vs comparing the ktm to husky and gasgas which are all splitting hairs. If riders dont like one then for the most part they wont like the other. Now theyll have an aluminum framed bike to sell, and they can put all of the development dollars that went into that aluminum frames R&D to good use.
Plus lots of riders are having trouble with the new generation steel frame bikes, now they have another side of the house to get sales from that is separated from any mistakes on the main KTM chassis. Plus they also get to get another return on investment for the 2022 engine that isnt being used anymore. It all makes a lot of sense imo for Bajaj who already owns all of this intellectual property to put it to good use vs starting completely from scratch just because.
The first 4strokes were
Triumph obviously has the know how to make an engine from scratch, at least a street bike engine. Something to keep in mind is with street bikes the engine life cycle is much longer closer to 5-10 years before an engine is completely redesigned and even then its usually slightly altered and then may be used in a new "budget" model for a few more years.
Triumph did exactly this with their new Trident. Took the 675cc triple that had been in their sportbike for 15 years. New cylinder, crank and cams etc. and the threw that motor that the R&D had been paid for 10 years ago into a new model and are able to sell it for $8,500 and its an awesome bike. So they are used to R&D cost being spread over 10+ years maybe a 3-4 year engine life cycle with a shit load of R&D cost atleast on the first generation was a hard pill to swallow.
Everyone wants some state of the art engine from scratch but also want the bike to be $10,000 and reliable and easy to get parts for but also have more horsepower than anything existing.
"Carbon fibre - ubiquitous in the mtb world"
Yeah, and that's why top-end bicycles cost more than MX bikes... I'm sure a state-of-the-art £30,000 mx bike would be awesome but who's going to buy one?
Do they? Triumph hasn’t built a racing engine in years. Don’t get me wrong, they surely know how to built a fast engine, but they have no experience design a state of the art, lightweight, downdraft, finger follower, high rpm, single cylinder engine. Their Moto2 engine is fast, but a pretty conventional street bike engine with a slipper clutch and an advanced engine management system. So maybe lots of people (including myself) had too high expectations.
Well they have done all of that especially with their speed triple motor that revised a couple years ago. This is not really unique to Triumph, most street bike engines are very advanced and have been for quite some time.
The new 1200 triple motor is all of what you mentioned, along with a bunch of other street engines from many manufactures.
Finger follower engine, 12,000 rpm redline, and high performance street bikes have been downdraft engines since when they were still carb fueled 20 years ago. Keep in mind this is all being done with 3 times the amount of cylinders and these engines in non racing consumer hands are expected to last 30k+ miles. so I don't think the lack of engineering is what drove them to use the KTM design, I think its more of a cost/time/consumer reputation thing.
I dont want to sound like I work for Triumph but I think there is a big disconnect from the dirt guys to the street guys and they dont realize how advanced streetbikes have been for 20 years.
Post a reply to: Triumph September, maybe?