Lappers...

Chase Sexton literally just said he went down because of a lapper and he was challenging for the win at the time...so possibly this was (as you put it) the first time in MX history.

No kidding...Sun will still come out tomorrow. So many Nancys these days. Fast guys sometimes have to deviate from their line. If he zigged, Sexton would have zagged and he would still be unhappy. 

He didn't zig or zag. He was in Sextons racing line and paid him no mind after he just got blown up by Jett. If your not going to let the leaders race you don't need to be on the track.

I don't think Jett's and Chase's criticism came from lappers not holding their line, I think it came from the dudes (plural) who dropped the hammer while they were being lapped and tried to race the leaders (Chase said as much on the podium). Being in the race line is fine, but don't go faster than you were going when the leaders come by.

After seeing all those ruts at my age my lap time would be about 20 minutes

No shit Sherlock- IF...the lapper was in his race line before Sexton technically, up to Sexton to make the choice since he is the faster rider.

There are 15 ruts in every corner. How is that guy supposed to know which line Chase is going to take? Deegan was railing the outside lines in that first moto, so would it be fair for him to criticize guys if they moved way outside because they saw the blue flag and ended up in his way? These got to those lines first. The faster guys can see where the ones they’re about to lap are and need to make rut choices accordingly. 

I know MXGP gets a lot of shit for only having  20-25 riders on the gate each race. But it inadvertently solves a lot of this bs. 

Actually it’s the opposite. It doesn’t seem like the first time. It seems like it’s been endless counts of it and we’ll apparently just keep doing the same old thing because we are a bunch of backwoods hill Billy’s who can’t make any useful changes.

And to your point, Let this be a learning lesson for all of us.

It could be set up a number of ways.  Most likely a crash doesn't cost you a 2 minute lap time and if you are 80% of a lap time behind the leader, you are likely out of it anyway......and you have all the way back to the finish line to get within the time parameter.

Black flag them when they get 1:30 behind. They get scored by the last lap they ran.   Has anyone came from a lap down into a top 15?    if they’re 10 seconds a lap slower they should have raced 20 minutes anyway.  

Yeah, Stew was pissed when he was lapping JT & crashed into the back of him. 

They've obviously never played Excite Bike on B mode or else they'd know what real frustration from lappers feels like.

Agree 100%

Unadilla is very 1 hot lined and passing anyone is difficult.

Blue flag tells the lapper that the leaders are coming and to try not to use the hottest line. It the leaders are close to each other and not following no matter where the lapped goes chances are he will be on the same line as one of them.

the leaders always have the choice of not using the same line as the lappers don’t they?

One other thing…… 

When I was traveling the AMA pro SX/MX circuit as a mechanic I always told my rider to hold their line when being lapped as the AMA Pro Racing rules stated.

The leaders are fast enough to catch you and lap you so in the blink of an eye they will pass you on a different line. I also told them to jump in behind them for as long as you can and use them to help you pass the riders you are racing against.

If I'm a pro racer and being referred to as a "lapper" from anyone that stings a bit.

Same old same old. If the factory riders all rode togther wouldn’t be such an issue. For some reason usa mixes  up the level of riders & then people wonder why there’s frustration.

Also 40 on the line isnt  necessary.

I like how the guys that are not doing it and likely have done nothing their entire lives say folks need to suck it up and do it like this.

Maybe they should just thin the slow guys out a few at a time  every moto thru the series and by the last third of it then we can have only the top two guys lining up for the championship. 
 

Here's a thought from outside the box.

Maybe there should be no Blue Flag ?

If a front runner catches a back marker, he should approach the back marker in the same way as if he was passing a rider from 2nd position into 1st. He needs to look ahead and consider how he will negotiate the obstruction coming up in his vision. Choose an alternate line and make it happen. That way the lapper is racing his own race and not thinking, "oh f#ck which way is he going"

The problem isn't lappers.  The problem is the slot car track. 

When you take the most natural track with the most history of any American track and scrape all the natural features away while replacing the soil with sand, discing it deep, and add too much water (or it rains) you end up with a track that is hard to pass on.

Race strategy shouldn't involve guessing which rut a lapper is gonna be in 200 yards before you get to them so you can pass.  This has been an on-going problem at Unadilla for at least the past 20 years.

Just part of racing. I’m not sure there’s really a solution unless we completely revamp the rules. Like the bottom 5 are eliminated every 5 minutes or something like that. So by the 20 minute mark only 20 are on the track and the final 10 + 2 are ridden with only 20 riders. Not saying I favor this idea, but anything short of something similar will mean lappers are just part of the race. 

At the end of the race the lappers weren't battling for 27th, it was just outside the top 10.  Those guys are battling for points that could get them into the SMX mains and a chance at big time money.  Money that means they can afford to line up next year and continue chasing their dream.  So maybe try and see it from both sides sometimes.  

                     Shawn, that is a good take. For some of these guys, a 10th place finish in the playoffs will be their biggest payday ever !

I do still think once you are 2 laps down, inside or out.. that’s it, you are done..

Only issue with that though, is how often do you see someone who is actually circulating the track get lapped more than 2 times? I do agree I liked the idea, but I just think taking them off the track after getting lapped twice might not do anything - they probably aren't getting lapped a 3rd time under most common circumstances and then it just helps 2nd place and beyond, but the leader still gets screwed. Maybe it needs to be that they get black flagged if you're one lap down, plus within 15 seconds / 2 straightaways / 10% of the track away of getting lapped again? Get them off the track before the leader gets close enough for them to get lapped twice or be in the way again. 

the answer already exists were just too stubborn and stuck to traditions to implement it.
 

A percentage rule in qualifying like formula 1 has. You have to be within 8% in formula 1 from the leaders qualifying lap to even be eligible to enter.

it guarantees everyone is on pace enough to be on the track together safely.

the difference between the 1st place guy and the 40th place guy might as well be local A class going out with the 65c class. The speed differential is dangerous and an obstacle to the actual racing.

that percentage could certainly be tweaked but that’s the solution.

that would mean we likely wouldn’t get 40 guys into every race because frankly not enough are within 20% let alone 8% of the fastest lap.

but 15-20 quality high end riders as opposed to 40 with 20-25 gate fillers would reduce the chaos of coming up on lappers who are 10+ seconds off the pace where the speed differential is strikingly obvious.

im wasting my time even typing this out but there it is.

It is worth noting that if MX / SX abided by the 107% Rule, only ~ 11 - 12 Guys would be allowed to be out on the track in the 450 class (on average) each weekend. 

It is awesome that 40 people get to race (in each class), it really is! Have heaps of friends that have existed in that 20th - 40th group for the entirety of their careers in the sport. Love the accessibility people have to being able to being a "Professional Athlete" (comparatively speaking, it is arguably the most accessible top-tier Professional Motorsport). However, can we all just acknowledge that there is a MASSIVE disparity in, let's just say, the Top 15 even - compared to the rest of the field? A lovely example of this in a larger motorsport series would be what happened in IMSA this year. LMP3 is a blast, love the car - super aggressive, nimble deal - it was a blast at Daytona, the Glen, etc. However, It's an insanely low bar for entry (Driver's don't need a wealth of experience to compete, it's "affordable", etc.) in the largest Sportscar Championship in the world.

So, what happened? P3 Drivers caused some reaaaallllllll bonehead wrecks (one at the start of Sebring & another at the Glen I want to say?) - now that Class is completely dropped from WeatherTech & relegated to a Support Championship (solely that of ELMS & VPSC). To that point, it is worth noting that every major Professional Motorsport Championship has at least one associated development / support championship (F1 > Porsche Cup, F2, F3, FRECA, F1A..., Indy > Indy NXT, USF, MPC, etc., IMSA > MPC, VPSC, Porsche Cup, MX-5, etc.). 

Where am I going with this? We aren't really constricted by time restraints for Outdoors anymore? (Given that the races are distributed primarily via Streaming not Live Broadcast). Would there be much harm in exploring the idea of expanding back to a two-day format & adding a pair or a few support classes (MX1 / Open, MX2 / 250, MXD [A/B])? Expand the weekend, embolden community engagement / integration opportunities on Friday / Saturday, etc. 

Just my 5 cents.

this guy gets it! hahah wish I would've seen this before writing my novel. You are 100% correct.