Triumph September, maybe?

Alan Dove
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7/30/2023 2:47am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 2:50am

Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in motorsport we have the best engineers on the planet. That doesn't mean Triumph do of course, but the idea the UK can't produce high-end product isn't accurate. 

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7/30/2023 3:28am

I’m not complaining, it’s just a fact. 
 

I’ll die with the bike, I just wish it had less character.

Bearuno wrote:

T595 / 955i, I assume?

955i CE. 

Bearuno
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7/30/2023 4:59am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 5:04am

955i CE. 

They replaced the frame?

Hell, I remember VF750S' ( I think that was what the poxy things were called - the 'std' type bike that was the first of the 750V4s ) coming back into dealerships with "weird handling".

It was from Cracked and Broken frames - some with just the wiring and cables holding the Whole Front End on. I Kid You Not. Plus, the whole 'Chocolate Cam Shafts that Honda has specialized in, over so many decades....... 

Gearbox problems ? That was a bit of a common issue, but it mainly plagued the T595, if I recall correctly

Did you see the racer that the (Brit) Performance Bikes magazine (now defunct, as is the Mag they rolled it into) made from a 955i? They used it for Thunder Bikes Class racing, I think. It was quite a weapon. 

 

wwdiii
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7/30/2023 6:01am
Alan Dove wrote:
Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in...

Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in motorsport we have the best engineers on the planet. That doesn't mean Triumph do of course, but the idea the UK can't produce high-end product isn't accurate. 

Yeah, the engineers at Lucas electric invented blinking lights and intermittent wipers !!! 

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The Shop

philG
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7/30/2023 6:04am

I would be more worried aboyt designers being drunk than welders..

75%  of 'quality issues' are actually design issues, And the 25% that is left is 75/25 down to assembly. 

 

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CG118
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7/30/2023 6:09am
TeamGreen wrote:
I’m just so upset that they didn’t reveal more. I’m going to put on a public display of my anger thru interpretive dance!     

I’m just so upset that they didn’t reveal more. I’m going to put on a public display of my anger thru interpretive dance! 
47FF79AC-30F7-47FE-86CF-B9E0DFE25718

 0DB939BD-A92E-4A93-BAA6-A17A3E84793D

 

This is perhaps the most unexpected and brilliant thing I’ve seen on Vital. 

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soggy
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7/30/2023 6:18am
This video gives me the impression this project is behind schedule. A piece meal presentation like this is atypical for Triumph, but it’s a novel product...

This video gives me the impression this project is behind schedule. A piece meal presentation like this is atypical for Triumph, but it’s a novel product so the roll out may be a huge tease intentionally. Still, the omission of plastics tells me Triumph still hasn’t settled on the design. A missing engine, more concerningly, tells me the are deciding between prototypes. I applaud them for bringing in the heavyweights to build and test the bike, but I’m a little worried that there may be too many cooks in the kitchen. They’ve made it very clear that they want to avoid the cannondale mistake of bringing a bike to market prematurely and would like to arrive with a competitive bike from day one instead of a work in progress that will be sorted out by gen 2. That’s quite a task and has plenty of pitfalls along the way. 
 

Either way, I hope it shows up on time and is a good bike. 

Comprehension not your thing huh?

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TerryB
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7/30/2023 6:28am
Alan Dove wrote:
Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in...

Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in motorsport we have the best engineers on the planet. That doesn't mean Triumph do of course, but the idea the UK can't produce high-end product isn't accurate. 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Cosworth involved in the engine development?  I could swear that I had read that, early on. They've had a pretty successful run in F1.

jonesaustin
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7/30/2023 6:40am Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 6:41am

releasing weekly segments on the build of the bike is creative media, but I think most of us agree that the bike should have been shown first, followed by weekly segments on how it was designed and built. they saw this as a lead up when it should have followed the bike reveal.

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NSP139
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7/30/2023 6:49am

Would you want to buy the bike if the skilled tradesman was hung over from the previous night?

FarleyMX25 wrote:
Obviously you’ve never worked in any sort of manufacturing facility. You do realize that the car your drive the motorcycle you ride weren’t put together by...

Obviously you’ve never worked in any sort of manufacturing facility. You do realize that the car your drive the motorcycle you ride weren’t put together by a robot completely and there “hung over” workers in there every day. What if the robot has an issue and no one catches it? 

I have a made in England motorcycle and it’s hard to tell what is worse, the handmade “craftsmanship” or the poorly executed aluminum welding that caused...

I have a made in England motorcycle and it’s hard to tell what is worse, the handmade “craftsmanship” or the poorly executed aluminum welding that caused many early frames to crack. 

The good part is that these bikes won’t be made in England.

Where are these bikes going to be made?

djr
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7/30/2023 7:07am
wwdiii wrote:

Yeah, the engineers at Lucas electric invented blinking lights and intermittent wipers !!! 

True,

I am a Brit, but it's nearly impossible to defend Lucas electrics

 

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TeamGreen
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7/30/2023 7:49am
Alan Dove wrote:
Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in...

Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in motorsport we have the best engineers on the planet. That doesn't mean Triumph do of course, but the idea the UK can't produce high-end product isn't accurate. 

wwdiii wrote:

Yeah, the engineers at Lucas electric invented blinking lights and intermittent wipers !!! 

You better be careful! You’re messing with The Lord of Darkness! Laughing

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Money
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7/30/2023 8:00am
Alan Dove wrote:
Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in...

Triumph supply engines to the FIM Moto2 World Championship. It's highly unlikely the engines will not be up to par. In terms of UK engineering, in motorsport we have the best engineers on the planet. That doesn't mean Triumph do of course, but the idea the UK can't produce high-end product isn't accurate. 

TerryB wrote:
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Cosworth involved in the engine development?  I could swear that I had read that, early on. They've had...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Cosworth involved in the engine development?  I could swear that I had read that, early on. They've had a pretty successful run in F1.

If so then engines should be fast. When star had cosworth they made gains and Osborne often says that cosworth Dixon bike was the fastest 250 he has rode 

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philG
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7/30/2023 8:12am
Money wrote:
If so then engines should be fast. When star had cosworth they made gains and Osborne often says that cosworth Dixon bike was the fastest 250...

If so then engines should be fast. When star had cosworth they made gains and Osborne often says that cosworth Dixon bike was the fastest 250 he has rode 

Anyone can make fast bikes. 

Making fast bikes that stay together is a whole different thing.

And while Triumph are the supplier to Moto2, there is nothing hard about supplying a spec motor for a one make series, apart from making sure that they are all the same. 

 

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djr
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7/30/2023 8:16am
NSP139 wrote:

Where are these bikes going to be made?

That hasn't been announced

But the road bikes are made in Thailand, Brasil ? , India ?

So I can see them being made in the same places

Unless they are going to be low volume & high price, then maybe the UK ?

TeamGreen
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7/30/2023 9:30am
NSP139 wrote:

Where are these bikes going to be made?

djr wrote:
That hasn't been announced But the road bikes are made in Thailand, Brasil ? , India ? So I can see them being made in the...

That hasn't been announced

But the road bikes are made in Thailand, Brasil ? , India ?

So I can see them being made in the same places

Unless they are going to be low volume & high price, then maybe the UK ?

Aren’t the racing goodies and special edition bikes still made in Hinckley? 

7/30/2023 9:50am

955i CE. 

Bearuno wrote:
They replaced the frame? Hell, I remember VF750S' ( I think that was what the poxy things were called - the 'std' type bike that was...

They replaced the frame?

Hell, I remember VF750S' ( I think that was what the poxy things were called - the 'std' type bike that was the first of the 750V4s ) coming back into dealerships with "weird handling".

It was from Cracked and Broken frames - some with just the wiring and cables holding the Whole Front End on. I Kid You Not. Plus, the whole 'Chocolate Cam Shafts that Honda has specialized in, over so many decades....... 

Gearbox problems ? That was a bit of a common issue, but it mainly plagued the T595, if I recall correctly

Did you see the racer that the (Brit) Performance Bikes magazine (now defunct, as is the Mag they rolled it into) made from a 955i? They used it for Thunder Bikes Class racing, I think. It was quite a weapon. 

 

My point with the frames was that the frame was robotically welded and they still had problems, wrong temp causing weak welds. 

Yes, Triumph repaired the frames. 
 

Mine’s had a rebuilt motor, wiring harness, and rear hub. 
 

There was a time when I bought every PB that had that bike in it but I don’t recall that. What I do recall is comparison tests to the Japanese in which in 2002 it was on their heels (DSS) but then in 2003 the Japanese came out with updates and the 955i was comparable only  to the GSXR 750. Also, it seemed that in 2003 PB moved on pretty quickly from the 955i to other higher tech bikes. 
 

I’ll look to see if I have those issues but from what I recall it would be tough to race because of over taxed/ low tech suspension and brakes that were fine on the street, and too much weight high up in the cylinder heads. 

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7/30/2023 11:37am
This video gives me the impression this project is behind schedule. A piece meal presentation like this is atypical for Triumph, but it’s a novel product...

This video gives me the impression this project is behind schedule. A piece meal presentation like this is atypical for Triumph, but it’s a novel product so the roll out may be a huge tease intentionally. Still, the omission of plastics tells me Triumph still hasn’t settled on the design. A missing engine, more concerningly, tells me the are deciding between prototypes. I applaud them for bringing in the heavyweights to build and test the bike, but I’m a little worried that there may be too many cooks in the kitchen. They’ve made it very clear that they want to avoid the cannondale mistake of bringing a bike to market prematurely and would like to arrive with a competitive bike from day one instead of a work in progress that will be sorted out by gen 2. That’s quite a task and has plenty of pitfalls along the way. 
 

Either way, I hope it shows up on time and is a good bike. 

soggy wrote:

Comprehension not your thing huh?

Believing any company is 100% upfront in its marketing materials is not my thing. 

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Alan Dove
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7/30/2023 12:35pm
philG wrote:
Anyone can make fast bikes.  Making fast bikes that stay together is a whole different thing. And while Triumph are the supplier to Moto2, there is...

Anyone can make fast bikes. 

Making fast bikes that stay together is a whole different thing.

And while Triumph are the supplier to Moto2, there is nothing hard about supplying a spec motor for a one make series, apart from making sure that they are all the same. 

 

Keep 30+ competitors happy with reliability and parity ain't an easy task, not at World Championship level. It demonstrates at the bare minimum they have a competent engine division. I am not sure why you'd think it's easy.

It would be highly unusual, especially if they get help from Cosworth, for the engine to be the issue for Triumph. 

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2whlfun
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7/30/2023 1:44pm

IMG 4065 0.jpeg?VersionId=0

 

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philG
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7/30/2023 2:39pm
Alan Dove wrote:
Keep 30+ competitors happy with reliability and parity ain't an easy task, not at World Championship level. It demonstrates at the bare minimum they have a...

Keep 30+ competitors happy with reliability and parity ain't an easy task, not at World Championship level. It demonstrates at the bare minimum they have a competent engine division. I am not sure why you'd think it's easy.

It would be highly unusual, especially if they get help from Cosworth, for the engine to be the issue for Triumph. 

Because i have done it. 

Nothing runs at anything even close to its ceiling, nobody is allowed to touch anything, and as a result, they dont break. 

The fact they have turned up the Moto2 bike this season says it has plenty of margin

ExternPro do a great job of keeping them all nice and even, and they will have guys who can follow a build spec to the letter. 

Its interesting to note that while 250F MX bikes blow up for fun, Moto3 bikes seem to never break down , despite being on full throttle all the time, for the same reasons. Controlled spec and build, 

 

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aeffertz
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7/30/2023 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2023 2:50pm
2whlfun wrote:
 

IMG 4065 0.jpeg?VersionId=0

 

Do people even look at this photo? It's clearly an AI generated image, the damn header is just coming out of the frame, the weird Chinese writing on the rims/swingarm/etc, the god awful side number plates, missing spokes, weird ass rotors, not to mention the frame looks nothing like the actual frame. It just goes on and on... Grinning

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wildbill
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7/30/2023 3:04pm
I love that they are doing this and so many people are butt hurt about it.  90% of you aren't buying the bike anyway so what...

I love that they are doing this and so many people are butt hurt about it.  90% of you aren't buying the bike anyway so what does it matter?  They never had a deadline to showcase the bike, so they can roll out the teasers as long as they want.  Bobby nailed it already so don't think they weren't expecting all the shit talking.  Their playing you guys like a fiddle.

This just shows the kind of world we live in where everyone expects instant gratification.  Sorry people, there are other things to worry about other than photos of the 9th MX bike to join the saturated market.

TeamGreen wrote:
Psssst...hey, over here.... If someone you knows happens to find one of these bikes in a back alley in the not too distant future...? We'll meet...

Psssst...hey, over here....

If someone you knows happens to find one of these bikes in a back alley in the not too distant future...? We'll meet out at the end of Backus Road in the valley that shall not be named and you can take her out for a shred or two...after a hearty breakfast at Tom's, of-course!

In the meantime, these angry kids 'roun' h'yar can all bitch and moan. Laughing

Perfect!  And we'll test her hill climbing abilities while we're at it.  

Screenshot 20230730-150128~2.png?VersionId=HPACvcgIM

 

johnk408
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7/30/2023 3:11pm

IMG 4791

 Saw this on a New Zealand site, not sure if a mock up or what. I’m not smart enough to tell if photoshopped 

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McG194
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7/30/2023 4:03pm

If you were making it for yourself, would you make it while you are hung over?

McG194 wrote:
If you are a "skilled" tradesman then it doesn't matter if you are hung over. I was a precision grinder years ago and if I couldn't...

If you are a "skilled" tradesman then it doesn't matter if you are hung over. I was a precision grinder years ago and if I couldn't hold a 0.0001 tolerance hung over, I'd quit. 

I doubt you are perfect and have never made a mistake. Chase Sexton, Eli Tomac and Jett Lawrence are all skilled professional motocross racers, but they...

I doubt you are perfect and have never made a mistake.

Chase Sexton, Eli Tomac and Jett Lawrence are all skilled professional motocross racers, but they makes mistake all the time!

It doesn't matter what your skill is or how skilled you are, mistakes happen.

Doubting that I'm perfect is where you went wrong. We did work for a large company that would not allow welds on finished parts. As a surface grinder you are the last person to touch a part and if you screwed up the welder couldn't add a bead and save your butt. We were in an air-conditioned clean room so you would have consistent temps and not lose size because of temperature fluctuations. I went 3 years without scraping a part so the comparison between a pro racer and a skilled tradesman fails. I may have been damn good, but I had far less variables to deal with. The mantra I live by is: "If the process is perfect the results are automatic." 

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Goldmember
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7/31/2023 1:09am
Alan Dove wrote:
Keep 30+ competitors happy with reliability and parity ain't an easy task, not at World Championship level. It demonstrates at the bare minimum they have a...

Keep 30+ competitors happy with reliability and parity ain't an easy task, not at World Championship level. It demonstrates at the bare minimum they have a competent engine division. I am not sure why you'd think it's easy.

It would be highly unusual, especially if they get help from Cosworth, for the engine to be the issue for Triumph. 

Let's see what Triumph comes up with as a 15000 rpm plus motocross single that many owners will not maintain, let alone follow the lifing recomendations for.

The Triumph Moto2 engines are leased for big $, have a very short rebuild interval and are rpm limited.

The entire crankcase and cylinder head is chucked at around 3000K, and the crankshaft, rods and pistons as well as valves and springs are changed twice during the engines 12 meeting lifespan.

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Alan Dove
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7/31/2023 1:22am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2023 1:25am
philG wrote:
Because i have done it.  Nothing runs at anything even close to its ceiling, nobody is allowed to touch anything, and as a result, they dont...

Because i have done it. 

Nothing runs at anything even close to its ceiling, nobody is allowed to touch anything, and as a result, they dont break. 

The fact they have turned up the Moto2 bike this season says it has plenty of margin

ExternPro do a great job of keeping them all nice and even, and they will have guys who can follow a build spec to the letter. 

Its interesting to note that while 250F MX bikes blow up for fun, Moto3 bikes seem to never break down , despite being on full throttle all the time, for the same reasons. Controlled spec and build, 

 

I don't think it's easy. These are all complex goals to achieve, especially when riders are trying to get rides in MotoGP. A HP here or there is a problem. I don't know the exact 'word on the street' but I've not heard any suggestion Triumph have done a bad job or whatever.

If 250MX are blowing up for fun from existing manufacturers then why aren't they all out of business? I just think it's unlikely engine power/reliability will be a fundamental issue. If they have Cosworth onboard it'll require an enormous f*ck up for the engine to be a problem. Trumph's Supersport team are doing OK with Tuuli currently 6th int he championship. I think they'll be OK

Chassis side is a different thing entirely.
 

jonesaustin
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7/31/2023 4:41am
johnk408 wrote:
 Saw this on a New Zealand site, not sure if a mock up or what. I’m not smart enough to tell if photoshopped 

IMG 4791

 Saw this on a New Zealand site, not sure if a mock up or what. I’m not smart enough to tell if photoshopped 

AI renderings. hoping it’s more “next gen” cosmetically than that. 

tek14
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7/31/2023 5:25am

If they wanna see more bikes they should have 350cc coming. 

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7/31/2023 5:55am

Hey guys, I haven’t read a single post in this thread to see if this has been posted yet, and I won’t bother to, but check out what I found! 
 

IMG 4482

 

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