Masterpool and cheaper dirt bikes.

6/14/2023 9:51pm
lumpy790 wrote:

And a new truck shouldn’t cost $50,000 - $100,000

kott0n wrote:
No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.   If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles...

No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.

 

If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles in one, they're expensive. 

It's why I still have my 2006 with 212k on it. It works as a truck. 

...they start at 50k even for a base model

 

Screen Shot 2023-06-15 at 12.49.37 AM 0.png?VersionId=mj8XBqrE 6mFrvpT8mPCZadc

 

1
6/14/2023 9:59pm
renualt191 wrote:

And I don’t agree that that the bikes are that much better then they were ten years ago

So do you think an extra 10hp on a bike that weighs less isn't that much better? 

Richy
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6/14/2023 10:53pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2023 11:05pm
renualt191 wrote:

And I don’t agree that that the bikes are that much better then they were ten years ago

So do you think an extra 10hp on a bike that weighs less isn't that much better? 

'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs

'23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs

 

13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs

'23 yzf 450: 58.95 hp, 231 lbs

 

Not saying they aren't better, as I agree they are, just examples.

The weight loss from the Japanese bikes has been impressive, chasing down the Orange ones.

1
6/15/2023 5:12am

MTB industry is stupid with prices. 
All the bike manufacturers only build frames. 
Everything else is bolt on from other companies. 
Yes I spent more on my YT than my Hondas. Crazy really. 😬😬

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Racerman967
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6/15/2023 9:22am
On the 450 class you can definitely be competition a nearly stock bike. 250 class is a little different as the amount spent to get 5-7...

On the 450 class you can definitely be competition a nearly stock bike. 250 class is a little different as the amount spent to get 5-7 hp out is huge. A rider I know who raced 250sx and 450 outdoors said he had to spend 10-15k to make his 250 competitive. His 450 got a pie and a little suspension work and he was top 20. 

SoCalMX70 wrote:

Mmmmmm, pie.

Every bike is faster with pie. Apple is faster than Cherry I hear

1
lumpy790
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6/15/2023 10:57am

On a side note…… Honda does offer the CRF450RS that is cheaper with it being the old design.

6/15/2023 12:17pm
Richy wrote:
I'm actually amazed, and kinda thankful, that motocross bike pricing hasn't followed suit after the obscene prices mountain bikes seem to be able to command. Granted...

I'm actually amazed, and kinda thankful, that motocross bike pricing hasn't followed suit after the obscene prices mountain bikes seem to be able to command.

Granted cycling is way more accessible and a way easier past time for most people, but I don't know if that explains the prices being higher or if it means they should be lower? No idea, different topic anyway I guess.

dinger212 wrote:
Why are MTB bikes so damn expensive? I know little to nothing about the sport but have friends that tell me how much they spend on...

Why are MTB bikes so damn expensive? I know little to nothing about the sport but have friends that tell me how much they spend on bikes. Insane 

Yep, I don't even want to say what I paid for my Santa cruz tall boy carbon fiber mountain bike. Blush I wont spend that much again even though its one trick bicycle and I love carbon fiber. 133167898 311762923470557 717764481308159694 n.jpg?VersionId=egmzEWm5

 

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zehn
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6/15/2023 12:22pm
Richy wrote:
'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs '23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs   13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs '23 yzf 450: 58.95...

'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs

'23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs

 

13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs

'23 yzf 450: 58.95 hp, 231 lbs

 

Not saying they aren't better, as I agree they are, just examples.

The weight loss from the Japanese bikes has been impressive, chasing down the Orange ones.

Along with weight (which is a huge improvement), the biggest changes have come from ECU and component upgrades, making the power more manageable and tweakable, and hydraulic clutches. Suspension has also gotten a lot better across the board for OEM bikes.

All of which come from testing and development by factory race teams and filtered down to production bikes

6/15/2023 12:34pm
lumpy790 wrote:

And a new truck shouldn’t cost $50,000 - $100,000

kott0n wrote:
No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.   If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles...

No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.

 

If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles in one, they're expensive. 

It's why I still have my 2006 with 212k on it. It works as a truck. 

lumpy790 wrote:

And?

This is about wanting the price dropped so its less expensive but still has all the best options available.

Trucks are expensive but worth it. Love my newest RAM but will probably keep it another year because I only have 42K miles on it and I have had it over three years. I usually get a new one every 3 years or when I get 70k to 80k miles on it. It rides like a Cadillac it so comfortable and the best thing is I can see everything on the screen without needing my reading glasses.Smile 

message-editor 1537540332250-rebel12overallinterior

 

4
6/15/2023 12:56pm

Masterpools bike is far from stock. 
 

 Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. 
 

 The stock engine is still powered by an expensive ecu and breathes through an expensive exhaust. 

6/15/2023 1:03pm
devotid wrote:
Its not the "testing and designing" that costs all the money... its the CNC'd drawer liners for each tool in a 2 million dollar rig employing...

Its not the "testing and designing" that costs all the money... its the CNC'd drawer liners for each tool in a 2 million dollar rig employing seven people to transport and maintain it to 25+ stops around the country. Its the $50 million dollar race facilities and the Matching patagonia embroidered jackets for everyone that handles a goggle strap... I could go on but I think you get the point. Wink

 

Cheap bikes are great but good luck talking people into giving up the "useless extras".

That doesn’t effect the price of the bike, except maybe KTM. 
 

 All the major brands have an advertising budget based on overall company sales, race teams gets a percentage of that pie.  
 

 Suzuki doesn’t pay for it because they don’t care about the North American market, they’re to busy selling a bejillion cars and scooters in Asia. 

1
6/15/2023 1:03pm
Richy wrote:
'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs '23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs   13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs '23 yzf 450: 58.95...

'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs

'23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs

 

13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs

'23 yzf 450: 58.95 hp, 231 lbs

 

Not saying they aren't better, as I agree they are, just examples.

The weight loss from the Japanese bikes has been impressive, chasing down the Orange ones.

In my original example I went back 20 years. YZ450 in 2003 vs 2023 is roughly 10HP.  At that timeline the price difference is actually worth talking about. 2013 to 2023 is the price of a pipe. I really don't see the gripe on the price of bikes. It's not just R&D contributing to the price of bikes. Do we not all make more money then we did 20 years ago? 

6/15/2023 1:09pm
lumpy790 wrote:

And a new truck shouldn’t cost $50,000 - $100,000

kott0n wrote:
No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.   If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles...

No need to buy the model with massaging seats. Buy a base model.

 

If you want a truck with car like interior, essentially 2 vehicles in one, they're expensive. 

It's why I still have my 2006 with 212k on it. It works as a truck. 

47k for a base line Chevy 2500.  

1
crc245
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6/15/2023 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 1:31pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Masterpools bike is far from stock.     Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. ...

Masterpools bike is far from stock. 
 

 Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. 
 

 The stock engine is still powered by an expensive ecu and breathes through an expensive exhaust. 

Far from stock? 

 

He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen Helen (June 1st), two days before Hangtown, they literally yanked the KYB suspension off his 250F and slapped it onto a box stock KX450 with an exhaust…Heard he ran revalved/resprung stock Showa components for Thunder Valley that were overnighted midweek with very little setup time as well. Stock bar mounts, front brake lever, even; Basically added protection (skid plate and radiator louver covers), bars, grips, suspension, exhaust, and chassis prep (engine hangers and linkage, which anyone can purchase). That’s impressive in my book! If he keeps up the solid motos I’m sure more’s coming his way, but for now let’s enjoy the show and unexpected 2023 Outdoors Underdog. 

 

To the OP: Dirtbike racing is one of the cheapest professionally motorsports, and that’s one of the reasons stories like this are so cool to watch. Anyone with talent and speed can turn heads. I don’t see this impacting the upper echelon of Pro racing, but amateurs and aspiring race families can learn a bit from such a grass-roots and well-executed effort…

1
1
6/15/2023 1:43pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Masterpools bike is far from stock.     Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. ...

Masterpools bike is far from stock. 
 

 Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. 
 

 The stock engine is still powered by an expensive ecu and breathes through an expensive exhaust. 

crc245 wrote:
Far from stock?    He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen...

Far from stock? 

 

He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen Helen (June 1st), two days before Hangtown, they literally yanked the KYB suspension off his 250F and slapped it onto a box stock KX450 with an exhaust…Heard he ran revalved/resprung stock Showa components for Thunder Valley that were overnighted midweek with very little setup time as well. Stock bar mounts, front brake lever, even; Basically added protection (skid plate and radiator louver covers), bars, grips, suspension, exhaust, and chassis prep (engine hangers and linkage, which anyone can purchase). That’s impressive in my book! If he keeps up the solid motos I’m sure more’s coming his way, but for now let’s enjoy the show and unexpected 2023 Outdoors Underdog. 

 

To the OP: Dirtbike racing is one of the cheapest professionally motorsports, and that’s one of the reasons stories like this are so cool to watch. Anyone with talent and speed can turn heads. I don’t see this impacting the upper echelon of Pro racing, but amateurs and aspiring race families can learn a bit from such a grass-roots and well-executed effort…

I guess to me, hangers, chassis mods, suspension, and a link is far from a stock bike. Add a pipe and a good map, and that right there is all the difference in the world when it comes to the characteristics of the bike. 
 

 Stock is coming off the showroom and lining up. 
 

 I do like what you said in the added paragraph 

1
LungButter
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6/15/2023 4:04pm
crc245 wrote:
Far from stock?    He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen...

Far from stock? 

 

He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen Helen (June 1st), two days before Hangtown, they literally yanked the KYB suspension off his 250F and slapped it onto a box stock KX450 with an exhaust…Heard he ran revalved/resprung stock Showa components for Thunder Valley that were overnighted midweek with very little setup time as well. Stock bar mounts, front brake lever, even; Basically added protection (skid plate and radiator louver covers), bars, grips, suspension, exhaust, and chassis prep (engine hangers and linkage, which anyone can purchase). That’s impressive in my book! If he keeps up the solid motos I’m sure more’s coming his way, but for now let’s enjoy the show and unexpected 2023 Outdoors Underdog. 

 

To the OP: Dirtbike racing is one of the cheapest professionally motorsports, and that’s one of the reasons stories like this are so cool to watch. Anyone with talent and speed can turn heads. I don’t see this impacting the upper echelon of Pro racing, but amateurs and aspiring race families can learn a bit from such a grass-roots and well-executed effort…

So it was stock bike with $4,000 in add ons.  Got it.

The kid had an impressive fricken ride for sure, but I'm sure there are plenty of dudes on the gate on similar or lesser equipment even.

4
Tyler D
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6/15/2023 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 4:37pm
MTB industry is stupid with prices.  All the bike manufacturers only build frames.  Everything else is bolt on from other companies.  Yes I spent more on...

MTB industry is stupid with prices. 
All the bike manufacturers only build frames. 
Everything else is bolt on from other companies. 
Yes I spent more on my YT than my Hondas. Crazy really. 😬😬

the trick is to not buy complete bikes. buy a frameset and build it up. specialized margins on their parts kits on mid to high end bikes is criminal. 

6/15/2023 4:45pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 5:10pm
Richy wrote:
'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs '23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs   13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs '23 yzf 450: 58.95...

'13 sxf 250: 42.9 hp, 227 lbs

'23 sxf 250: 47.0 hp, 224 lbs

 

13 yzf 450: 55.2 hp, 245 lbs

'23 yzf 450: 58.95 hp, 231 lbs

 

Not saying they aren't better, as I agree they are, just examples.

The weight loss from the Japanese bikes has been impressive, chasing down the Orange ones.

You are comparing wet to dry on the YZF

'13 yzf 450 was spec'd 245 lbs wet

'23 yzf 450 was spec'd 240 lbs wet

1
Spoonguy
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6/15/2023 4:58pm

I would certainly believe to many people bikes of twenty years ago are just as good. I suppose it depends upon who you are and what you expect of them. But to me, no way. As someone who is 58 with 5 knee surgeries, yes electric start might not be huge, but it's great. I see nothing that would make me replace a 2024 with a 2004, to me. Or a 2014 for that matter.

6/15/2023 6:25pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Masterpools bike is far from stock.     Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. ...

Masterpools bike is far from stock. 
 

 Just because it has a “stock” engine in it doesn’t mean the rest of the bike is heavily massaged. 
 

 The stock engine is still powered by an expensive ecu and breathes through an expensive exhaust. 

crc245 wrote:
Far from stock?    He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen...

Far from stock? 

 

He was more than likely on the ‘stockest’ bike on the line. When I saw their setup on a Thursday at Glen Helen (June 1st), two days before Hangtown, they literally yanked the KYB suspension off his 250F and slapped it onto a box stock KX450 with an exhaust…Heard he ran revalved/resprung stock Showa components for Thunder Valley that were overnighted midweek with very little setup time as well. Stock bar mounts, front brake lever, even; Basically added protection (skid plate and radiator louver covers), bars, grips, suspension, exhaust, and chassis prep (engine hangers and linkage, which anyone can purchase). That’s impressive in my book! If he keeps up the solid motos I’m sure more’s coming his way, but for now let’s enjoy the show and unexpected 2023 Outdoors Underdog. 

 

To the OP: Dirtbike racing is one of the cheapest professionally motorsports, and that’s one of the reasons stories like this are so cool to watch. Anyone with talent and speed can turn heads. I don’t see this impacting the upper echelon of Pro racing, but amateurs and aspiring race families can learn a bit from such a grass-roots and well-executed effort…

well said. It's still a bike that anyone could build for 15k. That's a good thing.

dingo
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6/15/2023 7:26pm
devotid wrote:
Its not the "testing and designing" that costs all the money... its the CNC'd drawer liners for each tool in a 2 million dollar rig employing...

Its not the "testing and designing" that costs all the money... its the CNC'd drawer liners for each tool in a 2 million dollar rig employing seven people to transport and maintain it to 25+ stops around the country. Its the $50 million dollar race facilities and the Matching patagonia embroidered jackets for everyone that handles a goggle strap... I could go on but I think you get the point. Wink

 

Cheap bikes are great but good luck talking people into giving up the "useless extras".

But it’s all a write off

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