New bike day - Stark Varg has arrived!!!!

5/23/2023 10:08pm
JM485 wrote:
It’s really not that big of a secret, the standard at the moment is 21700 cells and that’s what everyone will be using for the time...

It’s really not that big of a secret, the standard at the moment is 21700 cells and that’s what everyone will be using for the time being.  You have to remember these batteries are all made up of hundreds of individual cells made by major battery manufacturers, neither Stark nor KTM would ever produce their own battery cells.  Everyone is basically at the same limit as far as power density is concerned, that’s why I find it humorous that people think Honda or another major manufacturer is going to somehow come out with something drastically better.

The cells aren't a secret, but Stark appears to have solved the battery cooling problem, without needing to water cool the battery pack. That's a huge improvement, it saves significant weight, and it's patented, so the other manufacturers have to find different solutions to compete.

Manufacturers will be waiting on delivery of their Stark Vargs to reverse engineer, but it will take them 4-6 years before they have a comparable product, Stark would have moved the goal posts by then.

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prozach
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5/23/2023 10:16pm

Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?  

 

I know some of the e50 ktms aren't green sticker 🤦

#434
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DE
5/23/2023 10:32pm
2hr tire check on the Varg. 3 broken knobbies already. Nice, Pirelli. The Bridgestone Battlecross X31's i run on my Alta never do this. Guess im...

2hr tire check on the Varg. 3 broken knobbies already. Nice, Pirelli. The Bridgestone Battlecross X31's i run on my Alta never do this. Guess im changing tires already.

20230523 153423 0

 20230523 153434

 

crc245 wrote:
Are you running a bit more air pressure than your x31 go-to? I believe the Pirelli MidSofts were developed around a 1Bar setting, and anything lower...

Are you running a bit more air pressure than your x31 go-to? I believe the Pirelli MidSofts were developed around a 1Bar setting, and anything lower accelerates wear…Unfortunately, that’s also the cost of going lightweight. Looks like x31’s or Dunlop MX34’s in your future!

 

Side note: Really curious how the overall weight compares to your Alta once you have matching tires/tubes on them. Honda played this game with their CRF250R, running a two-ply 100/90-19 Pirelli MXMS to save weight, and it doesn’t quite add up to me.

The mid-softs are for.. well.. mid to soft conditions. If they’re ridden on hardpack tracks they loose their knobs fast. I always run the mid-soft on the front bc they’re so predictable and change between mid-soft and the mid-hard on the back depending on the conditions. I think 1bar is too much pressure. Between 0,9 and 0,95 is what I prefer. 

Goldmember
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5/23/2023 10:42pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2023 10:50pm
ToolMaker wrote:

You realize how fast the tech is changing though right?

The basic lithium battery chemistry was demonstrated in 1916, revived in the early 1970's and commercialised in 1992. Apart from improvements in packaging, the actual power versus weight equation has barely changed and has hit a brick wall of performance, though the hype is still going full bore.

Two coke cans full of petrol contain more energy than a 6kWh Stark battery.

Permanent magnet, electric motor rotors, with wound stators, like Starks have quite literally been around since the 1830's when motors first appeared.

There needs to be a massive jump in electron storage ability for EMX to be a proper thing, or for people to accept that the bikes will need to weigh well over 300 lb to be able to compete in the current formats.

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The Shop

Goldmember
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5/23/2023 10:56pm Edited Date/Time 5/23/2023 11:40pm
The cells aren't a secret, but Stark appears to have solved the battery cooling problem, without needing to water cool the battery pack. That's a huge...

The cells aren't a secret, but Stark appears to have solved the battery cooling problem, without needing to water cool the battery pack. That's a huge improvement, it saves significant weight, and it's patented, so the other manufacturers have to find different solutions to compete.

Manufacturers will be waiting on delivery of their Stark Vargs to reverse engineer, but it will take them 4-6 years before they have a comparable product, Stark would have moved the goal posts by then.

Proof of this is what?

Rare earth magnet rotor overheating, and their permanent, serious degradation, is the big issue for high powered BEVs. Rotors are extremely difficult to cool.

Best wait for some real hard arse tests on all this Stark stuff. Temperature control is a big part of EV design, and the engineering is hard.

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5/23/2023 11:02pm

Word on the street is that you can pack 24 tampons under the seat where the air box should be. 

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5/23/2023 11:11pm
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2...

How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?

Silas444 wrote:
A whiny EX girlfriend?  Why do you still talk to them once they're your exes? Once my paramours were in my rear-view mirror, I had no...

A whiny EX girlfriend? 

Why do you still talk to them once they're your exes? Once my paramours were in my rear-view mirror, I had no idea what they sounded like, whiny or otherwise - but I guess you're more of the clingy type.

I take it you haven't been with an ex after the relationship has ended? I'll just say if they acted that way during the relationship they...

I take it you haven't been with an ex after the relationship has ended? I'll just say if they acted that way during the relationship they wouldn't be an ex. Marriage is the biggest sham in the world. But insecure fellas buy in everyday, knowing damn well how it's gonna end. Suckers.

Are you saying that to come across insecure? Because it’s definitely working 

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1
5/23/2023 11:17pm

Are you saying that to come across insecure? Because it’s definitely working 

Not insecure in the least bit. But it is true. 

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#434
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DE
5/23/2023 11:25pm

When Goldmember posts something in a Varg thread:

1C29657A-8A1F-475C-A3FE-6C0ECA14ACE9

 

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6
5/24/2023 12:02am
Goldmember wrote:
Proof of this is what? Rare earth magnet rotor overheating, and their permanent, serious degradation, is the big issue for high powered BEVs. Rotors are extremely...

Proof of this is what?

Rare earth magnet rotor overheating, and their permanent, serious degradation, is the big issue for high powered BEVs. Rotors are extremely difficult to cool.

Best wait for some real hard arse tests on all this Stark stuff. Temperature control is a big part of EV design, and the engineering is hard.

Bryan's posts are proof, it can be ridden for 35 minutes without overheating, and the battery isn't water cooled.

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Goldmember
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5/24/2023 12:03am Edited Date/Time 5/24/2023 12:05am
ToolMaker wrote:
The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new...

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

Honda, through it's subsidiary Mugen, has been building successful, competition winning E bikes for a long time;  the Mugen Shinden first raced in TT Zero at the Isle of Man in 2012. They have more experience and knowledge of BEV's in their corporate little finger than Stark. Stark has never made and raced anything.

Honda is the Big Dog in a field of puppies, yet chooses not to produce an EMX bike. 

They know that the weight/cost/range/performance trade off doesn't work well with E. Their Isle of Man road racers are very heavy- near 600lbs, same as with last years Energica Moto E bikes, with circa 20 kWh batteries. Moto GP bikes are about 360 lbs with well over double the power and 4 or 5 times the range. The relativity will be better for E in MX but the weight problem will remain with the primitive batteries.

I'd say Honda (and the other Japanese makers) do not want to risk reputational damage making a dodgy E MXer. KTM recently came out and said E50's and little play bikes Yes, but serious machines NO.  E engineering is a lot harder, and more dangerous than people appreciate. This is not "hate'', just noticing what the corporate's behaviour says.

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10
-MAVERICK-
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Ontario CA
5/24/2023 1:18am
Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt...

Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt race gas , a slide of a carbureted bike getting stuck and launching into the stands ,catching fire and burning the entire stadium down, killing 1000's. and all of that.  

 How many people get electrocuted in Tesla's each year? 

They could require a jet ski like tether that would trigger a disconnect of the power.  Use a low voltage circuit to trigger a circuit breaker .  And or have some way for EMT's and track worker to know the bike is not live. I think the risk is very minimal . But in MX/SX you never know what will happen in a crash.

AMA already has that covered under their rules... BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...  The Stark Varg would not be legal...

AMA already has that covered under their rules...

AMA Electric Rules 1.jpg?VersionId=emakkC6 9OD6VC

BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...

AMA Electric Rules 2.jpg?VersionId=EG4tlLS9z9zhW

 The Stark Varg would not be legal to race in any AMA sanctioned event, it's battery pack voltage is 405VDC...

Screen 3

 

That information is from the amateur rulebook.

There's no mention of that in the Pro Rulebook.

https://mxsp.iscdn.net/2023/05/2706_2023_pro_mx_rulebook_final.pdf

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5/24/2023 3:27am
Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt...

Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt race gas , a slide of a carbureted bike getting stuck and launching into the stands ,catching fire and burning the entire stadium down, killing 1000's. and all of that.  

 How many people get electrocuted in Tesla's each year? 

They could require a jet ski like tether that would trigger a disconnect of the power.  Use a low voltage circuit to trigger a circuit breaker .  And or have some way for EMT's and track worker to know the bike is not live. I think the risk is very minimal . But in MX/SX you never know what will happen in a crash.

AMA already has that covered under their rules... BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...  The Stark Varg would not be legal...

AMA already has that covered under their rules...

AMA Electric Rules 1.jpg?VersionId=emakkC6 9OD6VC

BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...

AMA Electric Rules 2.jpg?VersionId=EG4tlLS9z9zhW

 The Stark Varg would not be legal to race in any AMA sanctioned event, it's battery pack voltage is 405VDC...

Screen 3

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:

That information is from the amateur rulebook.

There's no mention of that in the Pro Rulebook.

https://mxsp.iscdn.net/2023/05/2706_2023_pro_mx_rulebook_final.pdf

The rule for electric bikes in the amateur rulebook was written around existing OEMs kids electric motocross bikes, not for full sized electric motocross bikes.

The Stark Varg is ineligible to race in AMA Pro and AMA Amateur events, and won't be until the AMA Board changes the rules, but the AMA Board is controlled by existing OEMs, who don't have comparable products to the Varg, what motivation would they have to change the rules?

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5/24/2023 3:36am

All the manufacturers are designing and testing eMX bikes. You would be a total fool to think R&D is not happening. 
 

The issue is they have to finish the ICE transition to ePower. They have to keep selling ICE for many more years still. 
 

Once the amateur level of racing adds eMX classes than someone will start a Regional series and the AMA / Manufactures will all want in to control as we see today.
 

ePower doesn’t have to be from Lifepo4 cells. It’s source can be different options that are changing daily.
 

Changing the center of Mass is what’s changing the handling as far as chassis goes. 
 

That’s my whole 2cents with inflation adjusted to 1.3cents. 🙃

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GD350
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Plymouth , MO US
5/24/2023 4:56am
All the manufacturers are designing and testing eMX bikes. You would be a total fool to think R&D is not happening.    The issue is they...

All the manufacturers are designing and testing eMX bikes. You would be a total fool to think R&D is not happening. 
 

The issue is they have to finish the ICE transition to ePower. They have to keep selling ICE for many more years still. 
 

Once the amateur level of racing adds eMX classes than someone will start a Regional series and the AMA / Manufactures will all want in to control as we see today.
 

ePower doesn’t have to be from Lifepo4 cells. It’s source can be different options that are changing daily.
 

Changing the center of Mass is what’s changing the handling as far as chassis goes. 
 

That’s my whole 2cents with inflation adjusted to 1.3cents. 🙃

It looks like electrics out and hydrogens in, with the big 4 Joining forces for development. If stark released that bike that quickly why couldn't the big 4? The poor range would be a disappointment 

wfopete
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Dover, AR US
5/24/2023 4:58am

 

I look at the Stark Varg much like the YZ400F (Other than Yamaha was a established big doggy compared to Stark).  The 400F came out of nowhere and it took the competition a few years to catch up; but they did catch up.  Did Honda, Kawasaki, KTM etc. have proven prototypes ready to go into manufacturing when the 400F was released?  Nope.  I can see that 3 year timeframe being cut in half for an bike to compete with the Stark Varg IF they even choose to compete.  But for thousands of MX riders that don't plan to go AMA Pro the Varg is a great bike for all the reason we've already heard here.  Plus you have a whole generation of young riders teething on E-bike now.   But right now I'm wondering (like others) just where those shipping containers filled with Stark Vargs are.

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Falcon
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Menifee, CA US
5/24/2023 6:18am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"? Will it be...

Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"?

Will it be "Twisting the potentiometer" from here on out?

Hahahaha, sorry, couldn't resist. 

Keep up your good work. 

Lets not get too crazy. Moto community knows it as a throttle. It still makes sense. IMO, lets keep it that way.

I feel qualified to interject on this subject. Look at the final definition in this list. Sense three calls out bandwidth, but the implication is the same: Throttles restrict not only gasoline, but anything flowing through a system. This could easily be applied to electrons flowing through an open DC circuit. We can confidently still call it a throttle. (Just can't say, "give it gas" anymore!!)

 

1

a(1)

to compress the throat of CHOKE

(2)

to kill by such action

bto prevent or check expression or activity of SUPPRESS

policies that throttle creativity

cUS, informal to defeat easily or completely

The Jets went to Miami and throttled the Dolphins.—Judy Battista

2

a

to decrease the flow of (something, such as steam or fuel to an engine) by a valve

b

to regulate and especially to reduce the speed of (something, such as an engine) by such means

c

to vary the thrust of (a rocket engine) during flight

3

to limit or reduce (the bandwidth available to users of an electronic communication system, such as the Internet) to subject to throttling (see THROTTLING sense 2)

The company throttles data access for customers who use a lot of data during moments of network congestion …—Matt Day

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davis224
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Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
5/24/2023 6:20am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"? Will it be...

Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"?

Will it be "Twisting the potentiometer" from here on out?

Hahahaha, sorry, couldn't resist. 

Keep up your good work. 

Lets not get too crazy. Moto community knows it as a throttle. It still makes sense. IMO, lets keep it that way.

Falcon wrote:
I feel qualified to interject on this subject. Look at the final definition in this list. Sense three calls out bandwidth, but the implication is the...

I feel qualified to interject on this subject. Look at the final definition in this list. Sense three calls out bandwidth, but the implication is the same: Throttles restrict not only gasoline, but anything flowing through a system. This could easily be applied to electrons flowing through an open DC circuit. We can confidently still call it a throttle. (Just can't say, "give it gas" anymore!!)

 

1

a(1)

to compress the throat of CHOKE

(2)

to kill by such action

bto prevent or check expression or activity of SUPPRESS

policies that throttle creativity

cUS, informal to defeat easily or completely

The Jets went to Miami and throttled the Dolphins.—Judy Battista

2

a

to decrease the flow of (something, such as steam or fuel to an engine) by a valve

b

to regulate and especially to reduce the speed of (something, such as an engine) by such means

c

to vary the thrust of (a rocket engine) during flight

3

to limit or reduce (the bandwidth available to users of an electronic communication system, such as the Internet) to subject to throttling (see THROTTLING sense 2)

The company throttles data access for customers who use a lot of data during moments of network congestion …—Matt Day

We could call it stirring the pot(entiometer)

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Falcon
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5/24/2023 6:27am
prozach wrote:
Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?     I know some of the e50 ktms...

Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?  

 

I know some of the e50 ktms aren't green sticker 🤦

I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for it. 

Right now with 2-strokes, they will not issue any kind of registration at all for new models. Yet, they require registration even for transporting an off-road vehicle in your truck. Catch-22. F you, California. 

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NSP139
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5/24/2023 6:40am
prozach wrote:
Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?     I know some of the e50 ktms...

Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?  

 

I know some of the e50 ktms aren't green sticker 🤦

Falcon wrote:
I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for...

I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for it. 

Right now with 2-strokes, they will not issue any kind of registration at all for new models. Yet, they require registration even for transporting an off-road vehicle in your truck. Catch-22. F you, California. 

It's not just two strokes it's all off-road motorcycles 2022 and newer no green sticker or red sticker!

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5/24/2023 7:02am
Falcon wrote:
I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for...

I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for it. 

Right now with 2-strokes, they will not issue any kind of registration at all for new models. Yet, they require registration even for transporting an off-road vehicle in your truck. Catch-22. F you, California. 

Time to buy a van!

NSP139
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Temecula, CA US
5/24/2023 7:11am
Falcon wrote:
I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for...

I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for it. 

Right now with 2-strokes, they will not issue any kind of registration at all for new models. Yet, they require registration even for transporting an off-road vehicle in your truck. Catch-22. F you, California. 

Time to buy a van!

California let my 22sx150 slip through got a red sticker for it as soon as they figure it out and pull it I won't be registered in another bike in California either will anybody else that I know LOL another way California shot themselves in the foot!

prozach
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Eureka, CA US
5/24/2023 7:12am Edited Date/Time 5/24/2023 8:20am
prozach wrote:
Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?     I know some of the e50 ktms...

Serious question since you live in California Brian.  When your register it do you get a green sticker?  

 

I know some of the e50 ktms aren't green sticker 🤦

Falcon wrote:
I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for...

I'm interested to know, as well. The CA DMV is so screwed up it wouldn't surprise me if they don't issue a sticker at all for it. 

Right now with 2-strokes, they will not issue any kind of registration at all for new models. Yet, they require registration even for transporting an off-road vehicle in your truck. Catch-22. F you, California. 

NSP139 wrote:

It's not just two strokes it's all off-road motorcycles 2022 and newer no green sticker or red sticker!

It's not all off-road motorcycle.  I believe most new off-road versions of bikes are green.  CRF, klx, etc...  Hopefully stark did whatever paperwork they need to do so the idiots at CARB/DMV will realize a bike without emissions doesn't need emission restrictions. 

bayodome
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Mid-level, Hong Kong Island HK
5/24/2023 7:16am

It really is a shame there's no interest in electric motocross bikes Dry

(time of posting: 625 replies, 55,000+ views in only the first week)

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3
#434
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DE
5/24/2023 7:54am
All the manufacturers are designing and testing eMX bikes. You would be a total fool to think R&D is not happening.    The issue is they...

All the manufacturers are designing and testing eMX bikes. You would be a total fool to think R&D is not happening. 
 

The issue is they have to finish the ICE transition to ePower. They have to keep selling ICE for many more years still. 
 

Once the amateur level of racing adds eMX classes than someone will start a Regional series and the AMA / Manufactures will all want in to control as we see today.
 

ePower doesn’t have to be from Lifepo4 cells. It’s source can be different options that are changing daily.
 

Changing the center of Mass is what’s changing the handling as far as chassis goes. 
 

That’s my whole 2cents with inflation adjusted to 1.3cents. 🙃

GD350 wrote:
It looks like electrics out and hydrogens in, with the big 4 Joining forces for development. If stark released that bike that quickly why couldn't the...

It looks like electrics out and hydrogens in, with the big 4 Joining forces for development. If stark released that bike that quickly why couldn't the big 4? The poor range would be a disappointment 

Haha, a hydrogen dirt bike! If people are concerned about how to charge an eMX at the track, they‘re in for a surprise with hydrogen…

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7
5/24/2023 8:12am
Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt...

Don't forget the danger of burns from Hot pipes, risk of getting a part cut off in a spinning rotor or sprocket, Chemical burns from spilt race gas , a slide of a carbureted bike getting stuck and launching into the stands ,catching fire and burning the entire stadium down, killing 1000's. and all of that.  

 How many people get electrocuted in Tesla's each year? 

They could require a jet ski like tether that would trigger a disconnect of the power.  Use a low voltage circuit to trigger a circuit breaker .  And or have some way for EMT's and track worker to know the bike is not live. I think the risk is very minimal . But in MX/SX you never know what will happen in a crash.

AMA already has that covered under their rules... BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...  The Stark Varg would not be legal...

AMA already has that covered under their rules...

AMA Electric Rules 1.jpg?VersionId=emakkC6 9OD6VC

BUT AMA rules specify a maximum battery pack voltage of 60VDC...

AMA Electric Rules 2.jpg?VersionId=EG4tlLS9z9zhW

 The Stark Varg would not be legal to race in any AMA sanctioned event, it's battery pack voltage is 405VDC...

Screen 3

 

I was replying to goldmember talking about the risk of electrocution .   So it seems the AMA has already thought of that and taken care of it.  Amatuer and Pro racing will often have different rules so even though it says ALL motocross , if it came from the am rulebook it might be totally different for the Pro side. Like how they allow 250 2 strokes in the 250f class in Am racing but  in Pro racing they run with 450's.  

I'm sure that Stark will pay for homologation when they have enough bikes in the US if the bike would otherwise be allowed .

I really hope that it is let into pro racing sooner than later.  With  the other brands coming in with  teams , Triumph , Beta ? ,Ducati ?   that would be so many more jobs for riders and team personal . If they all do come into pro racing. 

 

1
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA US
5/24/2023 8:35am
bayodome wrote:
It really is a shame there's no interest in electric motocross bikes (time of posting: 625 replies, 55,000+ views in only the first week)

It really is a shame there's no interest in electric motocross bikes Dry

(time of posting: 625 replies, 55,000+ views in only the first week)

😂

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2
5/24/2023 9:24am
ToolMaker wrote:
The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new...

The problem with the big guys developing something like this is they can't pivot. They get so invested in a design that midway through, a new tech comes along they cannot incorporate it into their design. Now in a mature ICE market they shine, but in new emerging tech market, they are smarter to let others develop and then just buy the best complete design. There's too many variables for them to come out with the latest and greatest because their production cycle is measured in years. This tech is moving too fast for them to keep up.

Goldmember wrote:
Honda, through it's subsidiary Mugen, has been building successful, competition winning E bikes for a long time;  the Mugen Shinden first raced in TT Zero at...

Honda, through it's subsidiary Mugen, has been building successful, competition winning E bikes for a long time;  the Mugen Shinden first raced in TT Zero at the Isle of Man in 2012. They have more experience and knowledge of BEV's in their corporate little finger than Stark. Stark has never made and raced anything.

Honda is the Big Dog in a field of puppies, yet chooses not to produce an EMX bike. 

They know that the weight/cost/range/performance trade off doesn't work well with E. Their Isle of Man road racers are very heavy- near 600lbs, same as with last years Energica Moto E bikes, with circa 20 kWh batteries. Moto GP bikes are about 360 lbs with well over double the power and 4 or 5 times the range. The relativity will be better for E in MX but the weight problem will remain with the primitive batteries.

I'd say Honda (and the other Japanese makers) do not want to risk reputational damage making a dodgy E MXer. KTM recently came out and said E50's and little play bikes Yes, but serious machines NO.  E engineering is a lot harder, and more dangerous than people appreciate. This is not "hate'', just noticing what the corporate's behaviour says.

Even if Honda can, it doesn't meant that they will.  They are way behind in the performance SXS world . Can-am and Polaris are the leaders. 

And they work many years in the future.   I do not doubt they are developing a bike.They are one of the brands ( KTM group, Yamaha and Honda)that put out the info saying they would  work together on batteries. But they also are years deep in R&D for their CRF's. Remember how 2 strokes sat on dealer floors when the big boom of 4 strokes first happened? 

Maybe they underestimated the interest in EMX bikes years ago as they were developing their  next generations of bikes.  Now they have millions invested in the R&D, tooling, training etc. for the next couple generations of MX bikes.  If they had a Honda that was exactly the same as a Varg as far as power and runtime.  More people would trust to buy from an established brand with everything else equal. So imagine the demand ? Then imagine the dealers stuck with 4 stroke MX bikes sitting on the showroom floors. And they at the very least have a next generation of CRF ready to go now. 

WIth the 4 stroke boom it took around 4 or 5 years for the others to catch up to Yamaha.  I think that Kawasaki Learned their lesson with being late to the 4 stroke game and is a reason why they were so early to announce they would be all electric by a certain date. I think that Kawasaki must have designs , maybe prototypes built already if they have set a date. I think that KTM wants to keep being known as a company that can develop and change fast. So they might just be hiding what they have going on. With all of the excitement around the Varg, it would be crazy for  others not to  build a similar machine. But like I said with SXS's they have not done it there. I think it will be different with electric though.  Since Motorcycles are much more universal than SXS's. 

And even if nobody can make an EMX bike that can do the Golmeber runtime test. They DO NOT make money on pro level racing, its advertisement, a loss, the money to go Pro racing comes from selling the local guys a bike at retail with all the extra fees.  

4
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
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5/24/2023 10:05am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"? Will it be...

Bryan, what I'd like to ask you is; "Can you call the input device on the right end of the handlebar a "throttle"?

Will it be "Twisting the potentiometer" from here on out?

Hahahaha, sorry, couldn't resist. 

Keep up your good work. 

Lets not get too crazy. Moto community knows it as a throttle. It still makes sense. IMO, lets keep it that way.

Falcon wrote:
I feel qualified to interject on this subject. Look at the final definition in this list. Sense three calls out bandwidth, but the implication is the...

I feel qualified to interject on this subject. Look at the final definition in this list. Sense three calls out bandwidth, but the implication is the same: Throttles restrict not only gasoline, but anything flowing through a system. This could easily be applied to electrons flowing through an open DC circuit. We can confidently still call it a throttle. (Just can't say, "give it gas" anymore!!)

 

1

a(1)

to compress the throat of CHOKE

(2)

to kill by such action

bto prevent or check expression or activity of SUPPRESS

policies that throttle creativity

cUS, informal to defeat easily or completely

The Jets went to Miami and throttled the Dolphins.—Judy Battista

2

a

to decrease the flow of (something, such as steam or fuel to an engine) by a valve

b

to regulate and especially to reduce the speed of (something, such as an engine) by such means

c

to vary the thrust of (a rocket engine) during flight

3

to limit or reduce (the bandwidth available to users of an electronic communication system, such as the Internet) to subject to throttling (see THROTTLING sense 2)

The company throttles data access for customers who use a lot of data during moments of network congestion …—Matt Day

Which is why the term "Full Throttle" is stupid.

That literally means completely shut off.  "Wide Open" still works nicely.

6

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