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People have been bringing RV's and washing bikes at races for as long as there have been races. And still not many tracks have water to connect to or power for an RV. And I've only been to 1 track that had a sewer connection for RV's . The tracks that do have sites for RV's charge extra for using them. So it could be extra money for a track. There are some that still do not even have a way of filling water barrels for bike washing.Or generators. At the local races I've gone to I would say that 50% or more already have one that runs most of the day anyway. The Harbor freight inverter style are between $400 and $2K depending on how much power you want. An added cost for some yes. But You'll be able to have it at your house for power outages, use it to power other things at the track while not charging , etc.
When somebody says that there will be pits full of loud generators with EMX bikes, it tells me that they do not go to races. The pits are already full on generators. At Least the ones I've been to. Worst case divide the pits up if its a problem. A generator free zone. There is a local track that has set areas of the pits for the late night party area, a family zone, etc.
We have guys at our local track pull up in Motovans as I call them. Throw a generator out, turn on the AC and crash for a couple of hours. My guess operators at local chemical plants or refineries that works shift work. Generators are fairly common.
Reading this in the UK
All interesting info , I was open minded about e bikes , but reading this thread makes me think they are not really ready yet .
If you are going to need a petrol generator to charge the bike between races , then what's the point , why not just put the petrol in the bike ?
It would make sense if you could charge off say one of those Rivian or F150 lightning pickup's you have other there. Or Cyber truck, if it ever gets released, that would be cool !
And if the battery when new is only just up to the range needed, then it won't get better, it will only get worse as the battery gets older and constantly fast charged.
The $7500 price of a spare battery is a bit shocking too !
There is a niche for these bikes, but I can't see them taking over from ICE bikes at the moment.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Anyone believing the stark was going to be vastly different to an alta was short sighted , the point of a ev is no noise and way more power than an ice , more power than any works 450 for not much more money than a special edition sxf
It's like a performance of a Bugatti for top Mondeo money .....
You need to look past " does it use battery or petrol"
All the tests say no bike turns like the stark , no bike is as fast , no bike feels as light
All verified by over 50 different testers
Exactly.
This is a potential revenue stream for track owners. I see gusy regularly putting U4.4 ($20+ a gallon) into their bikes on practice day.
Most tracks already have power, some investment into additional wiring and money people put into race gas ($20+ a gallon) can go towards the track and equipment to have a better place to ride.
How is this not a net benefit?
I don't think that the Varg was built to stop using gas. Maybe it is a long-term goal. I think they built it because of the power, lack of noise and great handling.
Not wanting a Varg because you use gas to charge it with a generator is like not wanting a 2 stroke because you have to add oil to the gas ,instead of just putting the gas into the tank unmixed like a 4 stroke.
The faster the rider, the shorter the battery life. Slower guys will probably get longer run time.
Pirelli’s, at least when I ran them 5+ years ago, are a very lightweight tire, very pliable and they require a little higher pressure than what you’ll be used to running with Dunlops, etc. The result of running too low of a pressure is tearing knobs and pinch flats.
You could probably buy a generator and the 87 octane gas to charge the bike for the season and still save $$ over the $20 per gallon race gas. Along with the time saved not having to drive to purchase the race gas , and not having to store the supre strong smelling can of race gas. Or pay the extra to charge at the track and then the track owner makes some $$.
I still think the solar panel Idea I had would also be a great option for tracks that are close enough to a solid grid connection. After talking with people who have connected solar fields to the grid, I think its even more doable at the right tracks. If somebody has an indoor track the roof could be lined with panels and it would work in that environment for sure.
That's cool
Just curious, how big of a generator is needed for quick charging? Hopefully the quiet inverter style can be used and there’s not going to need to be an army of loud construction site generators hammering away all day in the pits.
This.
My suspicion when I saw they were coming with Pirellis was they were using them to keep the "official" weight down, just like Honda did with the CRF250 a couple years ago - to reduce the advertised/claimed weight by several pounds on the promotional info versus using another tire.
I'd be interested to see what the weight difference is between them and whatever Bryan replaces them with.
People complaining about the noise of a generator and riding a mxbike , the irony 🤣🤣🤣 like a generator is the noisy issue 🤣🤣🤣
You misinterpreted my question, never said it was an issue nor was it a complaint.
I wasn't referring to your post ,I see it appeared that way
This is not a money making endeavor. Its just NOT. U.S. Average RV hookup installation is $1200 per spot. Say a track owner decides to add 20 new spots. That's $24K. How much would be "acceptable" to a EV Bike owner per weekend of use? $20 a day + whatever the usage is? So if you have a whole weekend of practice and racing. $40 for the spot and say $20 in charging usage. So an extra $60 added to your weekend. That $40 goes towards the $1200 installation over time. You would have to rent that 1 spot out for 60 days just to break even. Sounds feasible. Until you think of how many times tracks have races and practices during the summer. Half our tracks are open (maybe) 10 weekends per summer. So that's 3 years before breaking even. That's too long of a return on investment for me. I'd rather charge the EV riders directly $2000 for their own custom pit area, then a rental fee for the summer. Then mark up the electricity they use. EV's are the most expensive and economically killing idea to have ever been created and entertained.
22 SoCal bros have down voted this so far. Nancy boys.
I think it would be more of a charging area and you pay per use. Not separate 30amp service at each parking spot in the pits.
Maybe you just flag a mobile generator down for quick charge.
Pit Row
pretty sure we got most of it from the British before they went metric.
In between bites of impossible burgers and chai lattes nonetheless.
I am guessing based on the 3.3KW Stark says the charger delivers , that You would need something around 4000 continuous watts . Maybe you could get away with one that was 3300 watts,not 100% sure. It puts it just above what a Honda EU3000 (2800 continuous watts ) puts out for short start up power. Harbor Freight has a 3500 ( 3000 continuous watts) and 9500 ( 7500 continuous watts )inverter style generator. I'm pretty sure you could run it off the 9500 watt one.
I think that Bryan said he has a smaller $400 inverter style generator that he has been using. If you are doing 15-20 minute motos you could probably get away with not fast charging at the track if you showed up full and plugged in whenever not on the track.
Some of the fast chargers I've read about you get up to the first 80% of charge really fast and that last bit takes longer. I wonder if fast charging a battery at 50% for 30 minutes would top it off or if its slower at the upper end of charging? If you regular charged and only used 35% each moto, and there is not a drop off in charge speed you would get topped off in around 40 minutes. On a practice day split into 3 groups that should give you enough time to charge.
If it wasn't ready in time, just have your gas bike handy just in case.
Man, I answer this question so many times. "What's the point?"
The point is electric performs better than gas for my use case which is local motocross. For me its not about saving the planet. I just want the best, safest, quietest when riding, easiest to maintain, highest performing motocross bike, and for me it's electric. Its the same reasons i love my Tesla Model Y Performance.
The battery on these things will last easily over 5 years. My Alta MXR is 5 years old with inferior battery technology and i can still rip 20 minute motos on it. The battery on it has gotten a little tired, but the bike still peformance as good as new with slightly decreased range (or maybe im just a lot faster now, hard to say). In 5 years, there will be much cheaper battery options if you want to replace like-for-like, but also way better, high capacity battery options too. The electric motor will last almost forever, and the other electrical components should last a very long time as well.
There are more eco friendly charging options if you care about that, but a gas generator for my use case is best at the moment until i get a full electric pickup (I'm also an early CyberTruck preorder) in which case i wont need a gas generator anymore.
Just like RV parks, the outlets can be easily metered and can be pay-per-use or a flat fee to use them, separate from track entry fees.
Noone is taking your gas bike away from you or making it more expensive for you. Chill.
i've been recommending a generator that can output at least 4000 watts continuous since the Elcon 3.3kw charger pulls up to 16A on 240V = 3840watts. You really don't want to be fully loading a generator all the time. I used a Westinghouse Wgen5500 right now that provides 5500watts continuous, well above the needs of the charger. it also allows me to use the generator for other purposes while charging the bike, like plugging in a small appliance or charging a laptop,cellphone,camera, etc.
I def recommend people go with a true sine wave inverter generator to make sure the charger is receiving the cleanest single. TDH is important for electronics.
make that 23
Hope that You get a call from Elon to go test drive an early cyber truck too and can get accused of being on the payroll for Tesla too. LOL.
I appreciate all of the info you have put out there for everybody on your experiences with your Varg. I hope you do not mind me trying to answer some of the questions people have asked you. I like to be helpful. But it often comes across the wrong way.
How does the motor sound? Is it more a deep throaty sound like a 4 stroke? Or does it sound like a perfectly tuned 250 2 stroke with a Bills pipe? Or does it sound like a whiney ex gf or RC car?
How many hours do you have on your Alta if you don't mind me asking?
7500!!!! Jesus
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