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Every form of racing where there are 'no rules' is the worst type.. less participants, and less chance of those participants providing a good race
Unless you can sell what you race, where is the return.
Suzukis 84 factory 250 was a piece of art, gas tank where the seat is and the air filter where the gas tank was. It was a two way idea, one was to lower the center of gravity, two was to get a cleaner path for fuel into carb. That bike was a literal piece of junk that nobody wanted to ride.
The suspension technology from both eventually made it to production, but nothing else.
The moral of the story, just because you can, doesn’t mean you need to. Today’s production bikes are sooo good, because there is no works bikes, technology is getting to the consumer at a faster rate now, works bike technology didn’t get into production for 5-6 years. Kawasaki came out with forks technology in 87, that Honda was using in 82.
Honesty, imo, if they did bring back the works rules, you wouldn’t see big changes, you’d probably only see chassis changes where guys would have different frames to choose from. Suspension of todays 450 factory bikes are already full works, so you wouldn’t even see a change there.
How about actually defining on paper what is a factory team or privateer/privateer team and allowing the privateers to race/R&D the works bikes? After all, those guys are the closest to the average consumer.
I’m just throwing spaghetti at the wall but I don’t think works bikes make the racing better. They do advance the industry and make it cool for people to see.
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I am sure we can find a thread on Vital showing people complaining that bikes are updated too often and are too expensive. Any tech gained from running works bikes will just drive the cost of the production bikes up more.
Ask Kenny Keylon how good the factory Honda was when he got to race it. He immediately started winning National motos. Ask Hannah how good that factory Honda was? He went there for no pay (reportedly) and won a ton of races.
Yet, privateers and small teams still flourished during this works bike era. I get it that works bikes were a budget breaker but that is a choice the factories should be able to make themselves in my opinion.
But the 85, which was the most expensive factory bike Honda ever built, was a bust.
When bikes were changing significantly every year from the early 70s to the mid 80s, the works bike was way more of an advantage than it would be now, and it served a purpose to help drive that development.
I think the production rule was, and continues to be, an idea that is best for all involved. I don't think the positivies of ultra trick bikes or helping a boutique manufacturer get into pro racing a year or two earlier outweigh the long term benefits of the production rule.
Selfishly, as a vintage racer, I also like the production rule because any build that I do on 1986 or newer bikes can be made to look really close to the factory bikes of the era : ) !!!
The production rule was brought in to bridge the gap between the bottom end and top end
Some of us members here know first hand what it entails to race a season at Pro level and If the production rule got thrown out then the series as we know it will crash.
It's fine the way it is with the current production rule, the gates are full. One area to better the sport would be to see better payouts to all riders who qualify.
Disagree? Look at MXGP and the often empty gates.
Wasn't the production rule based on Yamaha wanting it to save money and to get rid of the threat of the claiming rule that the factories hated?
Why are the gates half empty in the MXGPs? I thought it was the travel part most likely?
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works bike are NEEDED... we need them to finally advance the tech on the bikes... a 2022 KX250 isn't that much different than one from 10 yrs ago... or even 20.... some would say closer to 40.... MTB keeps advancing their tech... IMO.. moto has been very stagnant since the early 80s, the last of the works bike era...
oh and.. the manufacturers.... they always say "pity us.. we are sooo poor! we simply can't afford to give you a new model, let alone a one off works bike!"... LOL.... the game is over.... the manufacturers have pocketed so much profit over the last 50 yrs... it's time they start using a small portion of that cash to actually give us new, improved, products...
New mtb development will be in the E-bike space, it's their version of 4 strokes.
Look at motogp, the only tech that has really trickled down to sport bikes recently is traction control/abs. Aero wings, shape-shifting suspension , carbon brakes, GPS mapping, CF frames, etc are not needed on consumer motorcycles.
After watching Supercross this year I’m convinced we don’t “need” 450 Supercross. The 250 class is doing everything the 450’s are. I could deal with “Works” 250’s, but I don’t see the need for 450’s.
The sport has changed SO much since the production rule went in to affect. I feel it’s good to have it. The racing is awesome. Privateers have it rough enough without having to worry about Works bikes. In the last 30 years they have learned that suspension has as much of affect on a bikes speed as the engine itself. That’s not including all the other materials and frame rigidity etc….There is no need for works 450’s. Manufacturers would probably laugh at the idea. We live in a different day and age.
Yes, the gates have been mostly empty at away races due to the travel costs but one could argue that the budget is not available as it's been spent building these exquisite bikes. They need to be competitive at the races they do attend...you know the old adage...you can't bring a knife to a gun fight.
With the current production rule, we common folk get to purchase a bike that's fairly close
what the factory races,
that's good for us, privateers and non-factory teams.
And because non-factory teams couldn't compete they'd fold and probably loose privateer involvement as well.
The advancing tech of MTB's has produced a theme that stands out like the proverbial sore thumb though. And that is just how many mountain bikes are pushing beyond the $10,000....for a bicycle with less than half the parts of a MX bike...and you still have to pedal it.
Ryder D's used PC bike at $41.000.00 is fucking cheap compared to Anderson's "production rule" factory bike. Then Anderson's bike is a lot cheaper than Roman Vebre's Factory Kawasaki GP bike.
For sure the spectacle of unique unlimited factory bikes would be nice to see but It will be at the detriment of the entire gate.
Maybe one area we’d see development is active suspension?
If it ain't broke don't fix it. The sport has issues for sure but not having works bikes in the US certainly isn't one of them.
Correlation and causation seems like a hard concept to grasp in this thread!
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