Stark Varg Reviews

-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/10/2022 7:17am
6/10/2022 7:17am
ML512 wrote:
MXA didn’t attend. If you read in our review we mention there was a couple days of testing that got cancelled and rescheduled. One of those...
MXA didn’t attend. If you read in our review we mention there was a couple days of testing that got cancelled and rescheduled. One of those days was the date we were supposed to test on and MXA. We rescheduled but MXA didn’t. Mosiman was their guy for the test and he had the Fox Raceway National to do instead and they didn’t have another guy they’d want to send in his place.
Stark listed MXA as one of the review outlets, so I naturally assumed they were there.

Man, talk about a missed opportunity for Mosiman.
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davis224
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davis224 6/10/2022 7:21am
6/10/2022 7:21am
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will a 80hp model set to 45ish hp last significantly longer than a 60 set to 45?
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stone881
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stone881 6/10/2022 7:22am
6/10/2022 7:22am
I hope they are able to overcome the supply chain issues and get deliveries of the bike out relatively on time. That has to be the single biggest threat to their success at this time.
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JeffGuckenberg 6/10/2022 7:39am
6/10/2022 7:39am
davis224 wrote:
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will...
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will a 80hp model set to 45ish hp last significantly longer than a 60 set to 45?
That would depend on battery pack size, if it’s bigger on the 80, than the 60, then yes.
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johnk408
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johnk408 6/10/2022 7:40am
6/10/2022 7:40am
quadzrulebro wrote:
No MXA test? I find that strange, unless they were scared they would play ball and only report what they were told to. Love them or...
No MXA test? I find that strange, unless they were scared they would play ball and only report what they were told to. Love them or hate them, MXA is never afraid to speak their mind.
Mosiman went, or said he was going.
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Kkawi
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Kkawi 6/10/2022 7:48am
6/10/2022 7:48am
Silas444 wrote:
If you just take a moment and concentrate on what we're actually witnessing, the most amazing thing about all this is that Stark brought the other...
If you just take a moment and concentrate on what we're actually witnessing, the most amazing thing about all this is that Stark brought the other OEMs ICE bikes to the track for comparison. That is just so goddam ballsy, but hey, they KNOW what they've got with this bike. It is The Game-Changer, it is The World-Beater. The way I see it, we moto-heads DESERVE a bike like this, and shame on all the OEMs for not trying harder to find a way to get it to us. So much for being satisfied with BNG.

Has there ever been, in the history of our sport, an all-new never-before-seen OEM that has come in and bitch-slapped the entire industry? No, no way, not by a mile. Way to go Stark, way to go.

And THANK YOU.
Even with an hour range, that is definitely not bitch slapping the industry. Enjoy charging your bike. I'll put more gas in mine and keep riding.
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Chance1216
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Chance1216 6/10/2022 7:50am
6/10/2022 7:50am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 7:55am
Bring back the 500. Joking aside, I’m thoroughly impressed. My only concern is damaging the display (cell phone) in the event of a crash.
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vdrsnk04
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vdrsnk04 6/10/2022 7:50am
6/10/2022 7:50am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 7:51am
snillum wrote:
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However...
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However, for my purposes riding in my yard in the afternoon, this would be just fine.
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to run an oversized tank for this reason.

So Stark is on par with industry standard if I’m not mistaken?
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vdrsnk04 6/10/2022 7:54am
6/10/2022 7:54am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
How are you meant to charge these at the track? I can’t imagine a track having enough charging points, even in the future. Or do people...
How are you meant to charge these at the track? I can’t imagine a track having enough charging points, even in the future. Or do people need to bring generators which in turn is unfriendly to the environment.
It’s pretty easy. My sons ktm sxe5 we either plug it into the plug in in the cab, or the plug in that’s in the bed on my truck. I would assume this to be the same but who knows, I haven’t seen it.
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Rad76
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Rad76 6/10/2022 7:54am
6/10/2022 7:54am
snillum wrote:
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However...
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However, for my purposes riding in my yard in the afternoon, this would be just fine.
vdrsnk04 wrote:
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to...
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to run an oversized tank for this reason.

So Stark is on par with industry standard if I’m not mistaken?
Yep, that's what they claim.
snillum
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snillum 6/10/2022 7:58am
6/10/2022 7:58am
snillum wrote:
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However...
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However, for my purposes riding in my yard in the afternoon, this would be just fine.
vdrsnk04 wrote:
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to...
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to run an oversized tank for this reason.

So Stark is on par with industry standard if I’m not mistaken?
You have a valid point, I guess what I was mostly hoping for was some surprise new battery technology. I was hoping for an advancement like the change from when RC cars/planes went from NiMH batteries to LiPos. The LiPos were a HUGE performance and weight advantage.

But for me, being able to hop on and ride in my yard for 20-30 minutes after work would be awesome. So realistically the way I ride compared to Tortelli, the battery would last 2-3 hours lol.
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vdrsnk04
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vdrsnk04 6/10/2022 8:02am
6/10/2022 8:02am
snillum wrote:
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However...
The write up says Tortelli could get 35-40 minutes on a charge. That is a bit disappointing but truthfully it was about what was expected. However, for my purposes riding in my yard in the afternoon, this would be just fine.
vdrsnk04 wrote:
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to...
I find this comment interesting. Aren’t these pro’s who race the 35-40 minute pro motocross races running through a tank of fuel. Barcia actually has to run an oversized tank for this reason.

So Stark is on par with industry standard if I’m not mistaken?
snillum wrote:
You have a valid point, I guess what I was mostly hoping for was some surprise new battery technology. I was hoping for an advancement like...
You have a valid point, I guess what I was mostly hoping for was some surprise new battery technology. I was hoping for an advancement like the change from when RC cars/planes went from NiMH batteries to LiPos. The LiPos were a HUGE performance and weight advantage.

But for me, being able to hop on and ride in my yard for 20-30 minutes after work would be awesome. So realistically the way I ride compared to Tortelli, the battery would last 2-3 hours lol.
That’s a good point. When RC went to the LiPo setup it all but destroyed the nitro RC world imo. I bet they will get to that same point in our lifetime on dirt bikes.

Lmao at my level I’d say the same thing🤣.
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MX304
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MX304 6/10/2022 8:05am
6/10/2022 8:05am
I don't see myself ever moving completely away from petrol bikes, nor do I think pro-racing will survive if it is ever forced to go full electric. That said, if the production Stark proves to be reliable, I'll probably order one next year. Just to have a bike that will require less maintenance that I can throw in the truck and ride practice at our local tracks during the week.
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fs
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fs 6/10/2022 8:12am
6/10/2022 8:12am
davis224 wrote:
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will...
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will a 80hp model set to 45ish hp last significantly longer than a 60 set to 45?
The only difference is in software. The 80hp and 60hp set to 45hp will both act exactly the same. I am in the electronics team, not the sales team so I am not 100% sure but I think you can make the final 60/80 decision the moment you purchase the bike (not when you reserve it). Best to ask Stark directly.
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davis224
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davis224 6/10/2022 8:14am
6/10/2022 8:14am
davis224 wrote:
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will...
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will a 80hp model set to 45ish hp last significantly longer than a 60 set to 45?
JeffGuckenberg wrote:
That would depend on battery pack size, if it’s bigger on the 80, than the 60, then yes.
It has more to do with motor efficiency I think, easier to run a slightly bigger motor at 55% of max output than a smaller one wide open. Battery packs are the same between models I believe.
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davis224
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davis224 6/10/2022 8:17am
6/10/2022 8:17am
davis224 wrote:
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will...
Also bummed they didn't have an 80hp model there to compare, that's one of my main questions before I pull the trigger on a deposit. Will a 80hp model set to 45ish hp last significantly longer than a 60 set to 45?
fs wrote:
The only difference is in software. The 80hp and 60hp set to 45hp will both act exactly the same. I am in the electronics team, not...
The only difference is in software. The 80hp and 60hp set to 45hp will both act exactly the same. I am in the electronics team, not the sales team so I am not 100% sure but I think you can make the final 60/80 decision the moment you purchase the bike (not when you reserve it). Best to ask Stark directly.
Hmm. I thought someone had said it was a different motor, if it's just software I'll get the 60hp.
Wil Denis
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Wil Denis 6/10/2022 8:17am
6/10/2022 8:17am
Are they going to make a race team, and enter any racing?
What are the race sanctioning bodies saying, are they allowed to enter the 250 & 450 classes?
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ns503
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ns503 6/10/2022 8:19am
6/10/2022 8:19am
Wondering why they didn't want to show the battery range. It would have been pretty easy to not charge a bike or two & let riders run it until it wouldn't. That has to be the number one issue/concern for anyone buying thinking about buying one of these.
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ama530
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ama530 6/10/2022 8:22am
6/10/2022 8:22am
Not a pro or con e-bike guy but this is what Enduro21 had to say about some issues they had a press day. Not hearing that from the other outlets.

(“We’ve ridden these bikes for hundreds of hours without any problems” got flipped on its head when a couple of bikes in the five-bike line-up on Enduro21’s test day randomly cut out. Another had a water pump problem and a few lost their rear fenders – although they told us the plastics were not the OEM parts (they’re coming from Polisport we believe.

It must have come as a wake-up call for these pre-production bikes to suddenly have five riders a day for 10 days putting them through various levels of abuse. On the one hand it doesn’t look too good in front of the press to have this happen but if this was part of the production curve then it’s a good thing in theory as we unearthed a few gremlins that can now be fixed ahead of bikes reaching customers.)
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fs
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fs 6/10/2022 8:23am
6/10/2022 8:23am
Chance1216 wrote:
Bring back the 500. Joking aside, I’m thoroughly impressed. My only concern is damaging the display (cell phone) in the event of a crash.
The dock merely charges the phone (wireless charging). You can place the phone somewhere else (somewhere on your body) or you can ride without the phone.
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fs
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fs 6/10/2022 8:28am
6/10/2022 8:28am
ns503 wrote:
Wondering why they didn't want to show the battery range. It would have been pretty easy to not charge a bike or two & let riders...
Wondering why they didn't want to show the battery range. It would have been pretty easy to not charge a bike or two & let riders run it until it wouldn't. That has to be the number one issue/concern for anyone buying thinking about buying one of these.
The "dash app" was not on the test bikes. The were running an "engineering display". The display did show battery level, but simply as SoC=nnn

I don't know how many riders knew this or paid attention to how much SoC (state of charge) dropped per lap. I know some did and extrapolated expected ride time from this.
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idworx
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idworx 6/10/2022 8:28am
6/10/2022 8:28am
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
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fs
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fs 6/10/2022 8:35am
6/10/2022 8:35am
ama530 wrote:
Not a pro or con e-bike guy but this is what Enduro21 had to say about some issues they had a press day. Not hearing that...
Not a pro or con e-bike guy but this is what Enduro21 had to say about some issues they had a press day. Not hearing that from the other outlets.

(“We’ve ridden these bikes for hundreds of hours without any problems” got flipped on its head when a couple of bikes in the five-bike line-up on Enduro21’s test day randomly cut out. Another had a water pump problem and a few lost their rear fenders – although they told us the plastics were not the OEM parts (they’re coming from Polisport we believe.

It must have come as a wake-up call for these pre-production bikes to suddenly have five riders a day for 10 days putting them through various levels of abuse. On the one hand it doesn’t look too good in front of the press to have this happen but if this was part of the production curve then it’s a good thing in theory as we unearthed a few gremlins that can now be fixed ahead of bikes reaching customers.)
We had a stoppage for a few days to find and fix the problems. Fortunately we were able to find the problems -- all easily fixable once we knew what they were. If we had some fundamental problem the event would not have been restarted.
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lee82
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lee82 6/10/2022 8:35am
6/10/2022 8:35am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
How are you meant to charge these at the track? I can’t imagine a track having enough charging points, even in the future. Or do people...
How are you meant to charge these at the track? I can’t imagine a track having enough charging points, even in the future. Or do people need to bring generators which in turn is unfriendly to the environment.
vdrsnk04 wrote:
It’s pretty easy. My sons ktm sxe5 we either plug it into the plug in in the cab, or the plug in that’s in the bed...
It’s pretty easy. My sons ktm sxe5 we either plug it into the plug in in the cab, or the plug in that’s in the bed on my truck. I would assume this to be the same but who knows, I haven’t seen it.
That's what I do as well. Crank up the truck (F150) and turn on the "generator" mode that allows for 2200w worth of power. The e5 only charges at about 1000w, which is fine since the battery is only 1kwh. We just do 20 min top ups every ride or two and never had issues going all day.

I've been considering this scenario. If a 20' moto burns say 33% power, or 2kWh (for us normal riders, not super fast pros), then you should be able to ride all day just doing 30 min charges with maybe one longer 60 min charge mid day even with a standard 120v/20A outlet. No generators needed as long as you get the option on your truck or have an RV. I'd even guess a pro could get in 3x35's in a day with "just" a 120v/20A outlet. If they have a second bike, there's for sure no issues.
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garasaki
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garasaki 6/10/2022 8:38am
6/10/2022 8:38am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2022 8:38am
idworx wrote:
Ha ha, still 6 kWh of energy in the battery, that is less than the equivalent of one liter of gasoline...
Except that the electric motor is using it at a very high efficiency, and the ICE motor is using it at mind bogglingly low efficiency.

The usable energy in the motors is what actually matters.

If you extrapolate that idea out, the difference between ICE and elec is the availability of the fuel at the track. We all carry ICE "batteries" to the track with us, like it's no big deal. And we have to plan around charging up our ICE batteries, and we don't really bat an eye at the idea of paying for that charge.

So would it really be that different for us to buy elec batteries to bring to the track, instead of a gas can?
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Falcon
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Falcon 6/10/2022 8:38am
6/10/2022 8:38am
Brad460 wrote:
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when...
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when landing from a jump? The heavier weight has got to be noticed somewhere..no?
One test I read mentioned that it feels like a 125 on the track, from a weight perspective.
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garasaki
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garasaki 6/10/2022 8:41am
6/10/2022 8:41am
Brad460 wrote:
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when...
I get the bike feels light and nimble, but I am guessing it is heavier than a current 450. How does that heavier weight feel when landing from a jump? The heavier weight has got to be noticed somewhere..no?
You are guessing wrong.

The early specs had it as LIGHTER than a current 450. Plus the center of gravity is totally different.
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Falcon
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Falcon 6/10/2022 8:44am
6/10/2022 8:44am
I am all about this bike.

I rarely pound out 30-min motos, (never,) so the range isn't a consideration for me. (Unless it really is only 4 laps or something; we'll see.)

I hate 4-strokes and hate that development of the 2-strokes ceased when thumpers arrived. Something new and different than a thumper with modern componentry and geometry is a welcome choice.

I love that you can alter the engine characteristics on the Varg.





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#434
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#434 6/10/2022 8:47am
6/10/2022 8:47am
After reading and watching a few of the test I must say:
It‘s over for ICE dirt bikes! If you’re not planning to ride for longer than an hour, I cannot see how an ICE bike stands a chance. In a few years your just looking stupid riding on a motocross track with a 2T or 4T.
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