Serious accusations, Rocky KTM folding?

RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 11:13am
4/9/2022 11:13am
Update from RacerX: BBMX is scouring the pits for riders to ride the bikes tonight. Almost had Noren, but latest update is Noren turned them down. I can’t believe this guy, he has zero shame. Oh and they tried to get a comment from both McElrath and Antsie and can’t even get a response.
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Thisusernameisavailable 4/9/2022 12:10pm
4/9/2022 12:10pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
On RacerX right now the comments are all anti-Rocky Mtn since the basic highlight of the story is they have pulled title sponsorship. So now a...
On RacerX right now the comments are all anti-Rocky Mtn since the basic highlight of the story is they have pulled title sponsorship. So now a lack of information is hurting who may be someone doing the right thing. If I was a company thinking of title sponsorship…..do I need that hassle?
A bit like GEICO- after throwing millions t this sport, once they pulled out, they got trash-talked here! Its enough to put other potential sponsors off!
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 4/9/2022 12:17pm
4/9/2022 12:17pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm hearing Shane and the truck-driver are there. Don't know if Shane's mechanic is (that's not good!).

Bruce372 wrote:
Yesterday you were hearing 2 riders finishing sx and all 3 were doing mx.
TeamGreen wrote:
Nope... Here, I'll repost what I said after posting Forrest's response... [i]"I don’t know if there’s been any explanation, discussion or speculation; but, I’m assuming that...
Nope...

Here, I'll repost what I said after posting Forrest's response...

"I don’t know if there’s been any explanation, discussion or speculation; but, I’m assuming that after BBMX failed to get a rider on a bike for Seattle SX…RMATVMC decided they were out.

I DO NOT KNOW THIS FACTUALLY

But, I do know many of these contracts have minimum requirement clauses & I’m fairly confident in my “idiot’s analogy”.

Furthermore, I know Forrest tried to get someone on the bike: shit happens.

Disclaimer: I am sure as hell NOT taking sides. I’m just looking at the likely explanation. I hope RMATVMC continues to sponsor a team. I hope BBMX stays in it and goes outdoors, too. I ain’t mad at no one. I jus’ wanna see everyone go racin’."

As for posting Forrest's response to Cooksey? I'd do it all over, again! Why? We wanted to hear it/ Everyone ALWAYS complains that NO ONE EVER SAYS OR SHARES ANYTHING...

So, I shared it.

Then, seeing where people were taking it...Forrest's words getting assigned to me or being my words...I made the post, quoted above, and I -DID- say I hope they all get to go racing...yes, even outdoors.

As for yesterday, yup, I had heard that Shane was considering racing IF he got paid. All the while, I'd heard -nothing- about his mechanic being there...if you recall?

Let me repeat something, here, for the gallery: I'd posted Forrest's response because we alllllll say we want to hear and see this stuff for ourselves.

Since yesterday and due to Michael's excellent "This Week in Moto"...we now know...
No one is racing/No mechanics are there.
AEO -did not- Repo the suspension...yet.
McKenzie (sp?) is now "out".
KTM is now "out".
Forrest owes A LOT of people...money.

And it's going downhill form there.

The worst part? Shane, Max and Joey all looking for rides...mid-season. I'm pretty sure Joey already has some "things goin' on" and I'm hopeful for the other guys.
Next thing, you'll be telling us to buy Enron stock.

Time to quit while you're ahead Mr Insider
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mattyhamz2 4/9/2022 12:23pm
4/9/2022 12:23pm
731chopper wrote:
I still feel like Steve does a good job all things considered but there is definitely truth to the fact that he made his name by...
I still feel like Steve does a good job all things considered but there is definitely truth to the fact that he made his name by going against the grain but has now become just that. It is a dynamic lots of people and/or businesses face when they start with nothing but find success. Over time it is easy for some people to forget what got them where they are today. It’ll be interesting to see how Pulp MX will adapt. I’ve personally seen it go good and bad for people and businesses. I wish Steve all the success though.
RaceFace58 wrote:
My feeling is Steve realized if you go against the grain, you get stuck to the side out of the loop. I don’t blame him because...
My feeling is Steve realized if you go against the grain, you get stuck to the side out of the loop. I don’t blame him because he has to walk this line of having some access and getting what he can of a story or being completely cut off and getting nothing. That’s the industry’s fault. I’m neutral on Cooksey as I know nothing about him but maybe the industry needs someone who somehow is getting information despite their efforts to secrecy
ehr400 wrote:
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past...
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past, then these guys bbmx do it on a grander scale. Hard to be objective when these guys are bros. I guess where do people start connecting dots on how the same people just get recycled in the industry and act shocked when same shit keeps happening? Cooksey is goofy but he was right.
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who the guy/company was. BBMX had been around now for how many years? I truly believe that’s why there was such a big difference on how that’s being handled by Steve.
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thatswhathappens 4/9/2022 1:07pm
4/9/2022 1:07pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
Update from RacerX: BBMX is scouring the pits for riders to ride the bikes tonight. Almost had Noren, but latest update is Noren turned them down...
Update from RacerX: BBMX is scouring the pits for riders to ride the bikes tonight. Almost had Noren, but latest update is Noren turned them down. I can’t believe this guy, he has zero shame. Oh and they tried to get a comment from both McElrath and Antsie and can’t even get a response.
Damn, that’s an embarrassing way to go out.
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scott_nz 4/9/2022 1:46pm
4/9/2022 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 3:03pm
If this is the end for bbmx it will be a shame , I can’t think of a longer running independent team in the pits ,

But this will make a hell of a Matthes long form story for racer x too , maybe in a few years bagget will speak and we will he more info
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ehr400
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ehr400 4/9/2022 2:27pm
4/9/2022 2:27pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who...
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who the guy/company was. BBMX had been around now for how many years? I truly believe that’s why there was such a big difference on how that’s being handled by Steve.
I can agree some on that. Hell I am from SE Michigan and never heard of those clowns for Logan. I guess what’s worse, established team who screwed people for years or fly by night who you knew was too good to be true? Regardless, it seems to be a common theme in this industry and same people land in different places.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/9/2022 2:45pm
4/9/2022 2:45pm
Just saw the "Heart of the Sport" ad from RMATVMC...on RDL. Great commercial.

It's based entirely on the team (RMATVMC KTM).

It was ironic...

And sad.
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mb60
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mb60 4/9/2022 2:56pm
4/9/2022 2:56pm
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike tonight should tell you they were hanging on with sponsors to the end. Good luck to the 3 riders and mechanics for the outdoors. Makes you respect JGR even more that they were able to fufill the contract obligations.
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McG194
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McG194 4/9/2022 2:57pm
4/9/2022 2:57pm
RaceFace58 wrote:
My feeling is Steve realized if you go against the grain, you get stuck to the side out of the loop. I don’t blame him because...
My feeling is Steve realized if you go against the grain, you get stuck to the side out of the loop. I don’t blame him because he has to walk this line of having some access and getting what he can of a story or being completely cut off and getting nothing. That’s the industry’s fault. I’m neutral on Cooksey as I know nothing about him but maybe the industry needs someone who somehow is getting information despite their efforts to secrecy
ehr400 wrote:
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past...
Agreed, I understand Steve can’t burn bridges, I just find the irony of him blowing out the team Karnow got fucked by, and others in past, then these guys bbmx do it on a grander scale. Hard to be objective when these guys are bros. I guess where do people start connecting dots on how the same people just get recycled in the industry and act shocked when same shit keeps happening? Cooksey is goofy but he was right.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who...
I think there’s a difference there in that the guy sponsoring Karnow popped up out of nowhere and no one from his area even knew who the guy/company was. BBMX had been around now for how many years? I truly believe that’s why there was such a big difference on how that’s being handled by Steve.
So, it's ok to be biased in your reporting?
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inthebadboycorner 4/9/2022 3:36pm
4/9/2022 3:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 3:37pm
Sorry I missed it, how many on the race team that are sadly now unemployed?
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Brent
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Brent 4/9/2022 3:58pm
4/9/2022 3:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 4:03pm
mb60 wrote:
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike...
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike tonight should tell you they were hanging on with sponsors to the end. Good luck to the 3 riders and mechanics for the outdoors. Makes you respect JGR even more that they were able to fufill the contract obligations.
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
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LungButter
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LungButter 4/9/2022 4:07pm
4/9/2022 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 4:08pm
Brent wrote:
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team. Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt? Not...
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
Sadly (on several levels) we’ll probably never know.

If it was sponsors not paying it’d be nice to know so as a consumer we could make educated decisions who to give our money too.
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500 Mike
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500 Mike 4/9/2022 4:40pm
4/9/2022 4:40pm
inthebadboycorner wrote:
Sorry I missed it, how many on the race team that are sadly now unemployed?
As far as I know the 3 riders and associated mechanics and staff.
Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 4/9/2022 4:42pm
4/9/2022 4:42pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Just saw the "Heart of the Sport" ad from RMATVMC...on RDL. Great commercial.

It's based entirely on the team (RMATVMC KTM).

It was ironic...

And sad.
Tell Forrest I’ll ride that piece of junk for a pack of Marlboro’s.
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RaceFace58
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RaceFace58 4/9/2022 4:43pm
4/9/2022 4:43pm
I think it’s a very safe assumption that the sponsors have no blame in this.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 4/9/2022 4:54pm
4/9/2022 4:54pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Just saw the "Heart of the Sport" ad from RMATVMC...on RDL. Great commercial.

It's based entirely on the team (RMATVMC KTM).

It was ironic...

And sad.
Sandusky26 wrote:
Tell Forrest I’ll ride that piece of junk for a pack of Marlboro’s.
Lights or Reds
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SeaClassExpert 4/9/2022 4:58pm
4/9/2022 4:58pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Next thing, you'll be telling us to buy Enron stock.

Time to quit while you're ahead Mr Insider
LOL Manny is one of maybe 4-5 guys on this entire godforsaken board with actual industry connections (That don't work for vital).

I've heard his name floated from both vital members i know on here, and people who have never logged onto this site in their entire life that are plugged in. Dude has forgotten more about moto than you'll probably ever learn.
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UpTiTe 4/9/2022 10:19pm
4/9/2022 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2022 10:20pm
Brent wrote:
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team. Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt? Not...
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
LungButter wrote:
Sadly (on several levels) we’ll probably never know. If it was sponsors not paying it’d be nice to know so as a consumer we could make...
Sadly (on several levels) we’ll probably never know.

If it was sponsors not paying it’d be nice to know so as a consumer we could make educated decisions who to give our money too.
Sponsor payed, the money was misspent. I’m a bit pissed because I was told lies and came on here and assured people thing weren’t as bad as they seemed. I found out yesterday that things were worse than they seem.

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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/9/2022 11:48pm
4/9/2022 11:48pm
Brent wrote:
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team. Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt? Not...
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
LungButter wrote:
Sadly (on several levels) we’ll probably never know. If it was sponsors not paying it’d be nice to know so as a consumer we could make...
Sadly (on several levels) we’ll probably never know.

If it was sponsors not paying it’d be nice to know so as a consumer we could make educated decisions who to give our money too.
UpTiTe wrote:
Sponsor payed, the money was misspent. I’m a bit pissed because I was told lies and came on here and assured people thing weren’t as bad...
Sponsor payed, the money was misspent. I’m a bit pissed because I was told lies and came on here and assured people thing weren’t as bad as they seemed. I found out yesterday that things were worse than they seem.

You’re not alone
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 4/10/2022 1:50am
4/10/2022 1:50am
TeamGreen wrote:
Just saw the "Heart of the Sport" ad from RMATVMC...on RDL. Great commercial.

It's based entirely on the team (RMATVMC KTM).

It was ironic...

And sad.
Sandusky26 wrote:
Tell Forrest I’ll ride that piece of junk for a pack of Marlboro’s.
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Lights or Reds
Red 100’s.
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ns503
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ns503 4/10/2022 2:17am
4/10/2022 2:17am
mb60 wrote:
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike...
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike tonight should tell you they were hanging on with sponsors to the end. Good luck to the 3 riders and mechanics for the outdoors. Makes you respect JGR even more that they were able to fufill the contract obligations.
Brent wrote:
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team. Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt? Not...
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
...or maybe somebody wasn't very good at budgeting in the first place.
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yak651
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yak651 4/10/2022 9:19am
4/10/2022 9:19am
mb60 wrote:
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike...
What a embarrassment to the sport. Clearly the crew did not show up because they were not paid. Then to ask riders to ride there bike tonight should tell you they were hanging on with sponsors to the end. Good luck to the 3 riders and mechanics for the outdoors. Makes you respect JGR even more that they were able to fufill the contract obligations.
Brent wrote:
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team. Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt? Not...
Because Coach Gibbs is a good man, and don't think he would stiff anyone working for his race team.

Plus his deeeeep pockets didn't hurt?

Not that it is any of my business, but one of two things happened here - Either budgeted funds were mis spent, or a sponsor didn't pay.

I know RMATV backed out just this week, but it sounds like the staff and riders have not been paid recently, so there were money issues way back.

What happened here?
Would be nice to see an audit of Forest’s books…although by the way he runs his PR, the books are probably chicken scratches on the back of a napkin
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brocster
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brocster 4/10/2022 9:35am
4/10/2022 9:35am
Sounds like a clear case of, I’ve got mine, not sure where we going to get yours
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Meister
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Meister 4/10/2022 9:49am
4/10/2022 9:49am
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
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Brent
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Brent 4/10/2022 10:00am
4/10/2022 10:00am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2022 10:02am
ns503 wrote:
...or maybe somebody wasn't very good at budgeting in the first place.
Maybe.

One thing for sure, if you run a race team, you had better have some strong financial management skills.

Seems like a shit show here at the end financially, I wonder what changed because that team has been around for a lot of years.

Or did debt finally catch up with them? Either way, it’s a shitty way to leave the people who work for you out of a job and unpaid.

This guy Butler should not be allowed back into pro moto again for the black eye he put in this sport.

Nice touch at the end though, running through the pits begging privateers to ride his bike…
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Brent
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Brent 4/10/2022 10:04am
4/10/2022 10:04am
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
This is their fucking job!
You go do your job for free!
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 4/10/2022 10:08am
4/10/2022 10:08am
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
They really don't know what condition the bikes are in without their mechanics there. Max's bike was not built. I know it seems like they could just put things together or check things out for themselves; but, if you think about where their heads are at and what they've been dealing with? They're probably not very confident in or about any of it.

Sounds like excuse making, I know. But, we've got to consider what they've been dealing with and for how long. This is their job. It's what they're paid to do...or...are suppose to be getting paid...to do...

What should they do when they're not getting paid and they are watching their program fall apart and, again...have NOT been paid in a while...?

All this "news" to us is not news for them: it's a nail in the coffin. That's how I see it...from their perspective. Not the kind of environment that someone would want to race in at this level. Hell, not at all.
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Sandusky26
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Sandusky26 4/10/2022 10:28am
4/10/2022 10:28am
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
TeamGreen wrote:
They really don't know what condition the bikes are in without their mechanics there. Max's bike was not built. I know it seems like they could...
They really don't know what condition the bikes are in without their mechanics there. Max's bike was not built. I know it seems like they could just put things together or check things out for themselves; but, if you think about where their heads are at and what they've been dealing with? They're probably not very confident in or about any of it.

Sounds like excuse making, I know. But, we've got to consider what they've been dealing with and for how long. This is their job. It's what they're paid to do...or...are suppose to be getting paid...to do...

What should they do when they're not getting paid and they are watching their program fall apart and, again...have NOT been paid in a while...?

All this "news" to us is not news for them: it's a nail in the coffin. That's how I see it...from their perspective. Not the kind of environment that someone would want to race in at this level. Hell, not at all.
I would take all the parts from the rig and sell them on MXlocker if I were those guys.
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tprice07
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tprice07 4/10/2022 11:46am
4/10/2022 11:46am
Meister wrote:
So... I'm just catching up a little.. Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid? I mean.. don't any of their...
So... I'm just catching up a little..

Max and Shane both decided not to ride due to not getting paid?

I mean.. don't any of their other sponsors pay them in some way?

Take a damn practice bike n go race to show heart. Basically what guys like Karnow are doing. Results won't be any different.

Shitty on the team n shitty on guys that feel they're too good just to go ride (if that's the case, but maybe I'm missing bits)..
TeamGreen wrote:
They really don't know what condition the bikes are in without their mechanics there. Max's bike was not built. I know it seems like they could...
They really don't know what condition the bikes are in without their mechanics there. Max's bike was not built. I know it seems like they could just put things together or check things out for themselves; but, if you think about where their heads are at and what they've been dealing with? They're probably not very confident in or about any of it.

Sounds like excuse making, I know. But, we've got to consider what they've been dealing with and for how long. This is their job. It's what they're paid to do...or...are suppose to be getting paid...to do...

What should they do when they're not getting paid and they are watching their program fall apart and, again...have NOT been paid in a while...?

All this "news" to us is not news for them: it's a nail in the coffin. That's how I see it...from their perspective. Not the kind of environment that someone would want to race in at this level. Hell, not at all.
Sandusky26 wrote:
I would take all the parts from the rig and sell them on MXlocker if I were those guys.
According to some reporting some vendors picked up their parts. I was surprised the factory team didn’t find a way to get them under their tent with some stock graphics or something. They are already down two riders and their pit area was a ghost town.
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