The new performance fad - electric water pumps

ML512
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ML512
Edited Date/Time 3/9/2022 7:47am
Star Racing and BarX Suzuki have added electric water pumps to their bikes like HRC did with Jett’s bike in the later part of 2021 outdoor season.

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colintrax
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colintrax 1/7/2022 9:56am
1/7/2022 9:56am
Are they using this in conjunction with a temp sensor? Adjust flow to maintain optimum engine temp?
Can't imagine it saves any real HP loss. Less mechanical drag, more electrical.
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OrangeJuice158 1/7/2022 10:00am
1/7/2022 10:00am
The one on my trials bike kicks ass. Can drive coolant regardless of bike RPM.
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Camp332
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Camp332 1/7/2022 10:05am
1/7/2022 10:05am
I've heard about this having a significant improvement from initial throttle response. Makes sense since the mechanical water pump "spooling up" is eliminated.
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Xeno
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Xeno 1/7/2022 10:20am
1/7/2022 10:20am
Good solution for 250F bikes.
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mattman631
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mattman631 1/7/2022 10:25am
1/7/2022 10:25am
This is the biggest tech advancement on the RMZ since FI haha

That being said, id buy a kit for my 350 if someone sold one...
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luke11
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luke11 1/7/2022 10:26am
1/7/2022 10:26am
That’s pretty cool. Wouldn’t be surprised to see that trickle down in 5 years
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Timo
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Timo 1/7/2022 10:27am
1/7/2022 10:27am
The shaft could stick out of one side and they could add a fan to it as well. Variable speed pump/fan combo!
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industryoutsider391 1/7/2022 10:29am
1/7/2022 10:29am
Sweet. Love to see the sport evolve. I wonder if there are any weight savings.
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kylemenz1 1/7/2022 10:46am
1/7/2022 10:46am
Electric water pumps have been used in performance auto/boating Motorsports for a long time. Just like electric fans. The gain is minimal but it’s there. When you’re complete if for every little bit there are worth it.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/7/2022 10:54am
1/7/2022 10:54am Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 10:55am
colintrax wrote:
Are they using this in conjunction with a temp sensor? Adjust flow to maintain optimum engine temp? Can't imagine it saves any real HP loss. Less...
Are they using this in conjunction with a temp sensor? Adjust flow to maintain optimum engine temp?
Can't imagine it saves any real HP loss. Less mechanical drag, more electrical.
One less gear driven/mechanical function to worry about -inside- the engine.
Less parasitic energy loss.
Better temperature control capability.
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Bruce372
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Bruce372 1/7/2022 10:59am
1/7/2022 10:59am
Kinda ironic, the more electronics you add to a engine, the better it performs.
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KONG
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KONG 1/7/2022 11:11am
1/7/2022 11:11am
Great innovation.
I blew my LC4 engine thanks to a failed electric pump back in '89.
Laughing
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moto314
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moto314 1/7/2022 11:16am
1/7/2022 11:16am
What's under the water pump cover?
slowgti
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slowgti 1/7/2022 11:34am
1/7/2022 11:34am
There is some mid range power to be gained. When water flow is divorced from engine rpm you can do interesting things.
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philG
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philG 1/7/2022 11:41am
1/7/2022 11:41am
If they want to reduce load, then run the bikes on total loss ignition.

Remove the flywheel and just have a trigger ring.
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scott_nz 1/7/2022 11:50am
1/7/2022 11:50am
philG wrote:
If they want to reduce load, then run the bikes on total loss ignition.

Remove the flywheel and just have a trigger ring.
I had wondered if someone would do that ,? Do you know any super moto teams that have done it , used to be common on road race bikes here in classes that allowed it

And with fi would a battery last 30 plus 2 with a couple of engine starts ?
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Rocket88
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Rocket88 1/7/2022 12:16pm
1/7/2022 12:16pm
philG wrote:
If they want to reduce load, then run the bikes on total loss ignition.

Remove the flywheel and just have a trigger ring.
Then it will hit like TM400!
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inthebadboycorner 1/7/2022 12:19pm
1/7/2022 12:19pm
colintrax wrote:
Are they using this in conjunction with a temp sensor? Adjust flow to maintain optimum engine temp? Can't imagine it saves any real HP loss. Less...
Are they using this in conjunction with a temp sensor? Adjust flow to maintain optimum engine temp?
Can't imagine it saves any real HP loss. Less mechanical drag, more electrical.
They seam to be popular with drag cars, F1 and Moto GP.
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Falcon
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Falcon 1/7/2022 12:31pm
1/7/2022 12:31pm
Now that there are batteries, why not? You could remove the shaft-driven pump entirely, simplify the cases by utilizing the exterior mounting as shown, and reduce parasitic power losses. Benefits:

-Superior cooling, due to full-speed pumps at all times
-More power
-Easier maintenance (presumably, assuming the pump is external).
-Less likelihood of water incursion into the engine oil (again, assuming an external pump and no impeller shaft).
-Weight savings? Or a minimal gain?
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endurox
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endurox 1/7/2022 12:35pm
1/7/2022 12:35pm
My Mercedes Metris has an auxiliary electric water pump stock. The manufactures are using what they can to bring up the mileage. Another trick item is the smart alternator. When coasting, a signal is sent to the alternator to boost output if the battery is not up to charge 100% and back off the load on the alternator when accelerating .
jeffro503
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jeffro503 1/7/2022 12:36pm
1/7/2022 12:36pm
That is a pretty cool idea. I could see it really helping off road guys in bad conditions. How much drag do the mechanical pumps have anyways?
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JK BRO
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JK BRO 1/7/2022 12:36pm
1/7/2022 12:36pm
I see nothing ground breaking. Increased electrical load generates heat. They simply transferred the heat from the cooling system to the electrical system.

It's ugly AF too.
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Jardo
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Jardo 1/7/2022 12:55pm
1/7/2022 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 12:56pm
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this:






*these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
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ToolMaker 1/7/2022 1:06pm
1/7/2022 1:06pm
Kind of makes sense. You can size your electric pump for optimal flow 100% of the time.
TM
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Steve125
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Steve125 1/7/2022 1:08pm
1/7/2022 1:08pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 1:10pm
So they had to also add a battery to the Suzuki? Or does it run off the same power the Fuel Pump runs off.
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Money
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Money 1/7/2022 1:42pm
1/7/2022 1:42pm
Jardo wrote:
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527229/s1200_7968C5B3_65E9_414F_9535_51067D42AE2F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527230/s1200_262B23D1_E14A_493B_9290_1019988DCF7E.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527231/s1200_C44152E0_FD5B_4931_8661_4D4E4E18E578.jpg[/img] *these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this:






*these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
What have they done?
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Jardo
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Jardo 1/7/2022 1:46pm
1/7/2022 1:46pm
Jardo wrote:
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527229/s1200_7968C5B3_65E9_414F_9535_51067D42AE2F.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527230/s1200_262B23D1_E14A_493B_9290_1019988DCF7E.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/01/07/527231/s1200_C44152E0_FD5B_4931_8661_4D4E4E18E578.jpg[/img] *these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
Gotta give it to Honda for trying new shit. First, the water pump and now this:






*these photos are from vitalmx Instagram story
Money wrote:
What have they done?
Its not really that big of a deal but they added these flat plastics over the rear master cylinder and then duplicated it on the other side of the bike as well. Like I said, not a huge deal but shows that they're trying to think outside the box and take care of their riders needs.
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ML512
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ML512 1/7/2022 1:53pm
1/7/2022 1:53pm
MCR 250 from Chad at XPR…


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Richy
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Richy 1/7/2022 1:53pm
1/7/2022 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2022 1:56pm
Does anyone know which pump they're using? (Star / BarX, not Honda).

I fit DaviesCraig kits semi-regularly to race cars, they do a good few different sizes but I've never looked to see if they go this small, because for a car it would be pointless and when doing an additional auxiliary water pump I usually use a Bosch item supplied to OEM GM / VW.

Another cool thing, is you can set them to run on for a brief period after running to aid cool-down, probably not so beneficial for a bike but some troublesome car cylinder heads or turbos appreciate that. Also, they draw very low amperage from a 12v source so heat isn't really an issue, especially when exposed like on a bike.
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