2023 KTM models?

T-Fish
Profile picture for user T-Fish
Posts
3247
Joined
12/14/2009
Location
Sparta, WI, USA
Fantasy
767th
T-Fish 11/17/2021 5:15am
11/17/2021 5:15am
New bike or old?
2
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
11487
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 11/17/2021 6:19am
11/17/2021 6:19am
Old. Could be some kind of back to back test and that's why that bike is at the track.
jonesaustin
Profile picture for user jonesaustin
Posts
2653
Joined
7/6/2009
Location
Austin, TX, USA
jonesaustin 11/17/2021 6:57am
11/17/2021 6:57am
3N1MX wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/16/518664/s1200_2FA9E532_234B_4197_BA8E_8F84DC361046.jpg[/img]

dig the look of it
1
1
Crisp
Profile picture for user Crisp
Posts
91
Joined
1/15/2019
Location
AU
Crisp 11/17/2021 2:27pm
11/17/2021 2:27pm
3N1MX wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/16/518664/s1200_2FA9E532_234B_4197_BA8E_8F84DC361046.jpg[/img]

duboiz wrote:
I'm sure redbull is pleased with the shroud design
Yep. I was hoping that the shroud was just a dummy to disguise the real one. Looks like its here to stay. Sad
3

The Shop

See All »
JJ_Reidy
Profile picture for user JJ_Reidy
Posts
1
Joined
11/21/2021
Location
Conroe, TX, USA
JJ_Reidy 11/21/2021 6:24am
11/21/2021 6:24am
So KTM seems to be going with a GET ECU set up with the TBI plate and oil injection delete. They should have done this from the beginning.
1
swordfish
Profile picture for user swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere, AB, CA
swordfish 11/21/2021 11:12am
11/21/2021 11:12am
JJ_Reidy wrote:
So KTM seems to be going with a GET ECU set up with the TBI plate and oil injection delete. They should have done this from...
So KTM seems to be going with a GET ECU set up with the TBI plate and oil injection delete. They should have done this from the beginning.
According to who😂
2
mofomotojoe
Profile picture for user mofomotojoe
Posts
279
Joined
11/22/2019
Location
Lodi, CA, USA
mofomotojoe 11/21/2021 12:43pm
11/21/2021 12:43pm
Crisp wrote:
Yep. I was hoping that the shroud was just a dummy to disguise the real one. Looks like its here to stay. Sad
Just imagine if they did to the shroud what they had done to the Husky side panels...
KISKA designs is trying...
Slay896
Profile picture for user Slay896
Posts
71
Joined
4/9/2019
Location
ES
Slay896 11/21/2021 1:53pm
11/21/2021 1:53pm
Okay, fuel injected and electronic exaust valve...
19
1
swordfish
Profile picture for user swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere, AB, CA
swordfish 11/21/2021 2:25pm
11/21/2021 2:25pm
Slay896 wrote:
Okay, fuel injected and electronic exaust valve... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/21/519225/s1200_83FC9579_E433_4DDC_B4A7_0B60E171B774.jpg[/img]
Okay, fuel injected and electronic exaust valve...
The Electric PV pics have been floating around for a while. I don’t find the TM PV set up feels any better than my mechanical. What are they thinking is going to be the main advantage?
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/21/2021 3:12pm
11/21/2021 3:12pm
Slay896 wrote:
Okay, fuel injected and electronic exaust valve... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/11/21/519225/s1200_83FC9579_E433_4DDC_B4A7_0B60E171B774.jpg[/img]
Okay, fuel injected and electronic exaust valve...
Wow! Looks like a new cylinder and head. The mouting point of the head stays are different.
So no TPI, electric PV and start. Nice!
Matt Fisher 11/21/2021 7:49pm
11/21/2021 7:49pm
swordfish wrote:
The Electric PV pics have been floating around for a while. I don’t find the TM PV set up feels any better than my mechanical. What...
The Electric PV pics have been floating around for a while. I don’t find the TM PV set up feels any better than my mechanical. What are they thinking is going to be the main advantage?
I think it was an interview with Grant Langston, he said one of his factory bikes used an electronic PV for consistency. Centrifugal ones vary slightly based on engine temp, oil thickness, spring tension, etc. Could be wrong on it being a GL interview, but I do remember the consistency part.

Particularly with a FI engine, an electronic PV would give far more tunability for the end-user.
4
crawfishoo 11/21/2021 9:07pm
11/21/2021 9:07pm
TBI - Yes and please
Electronic PV - Yes and please
Electric start - Indifferent (but my A-stars are begging Please)

Love my 18 250SX but I will be excited about a fuel injected two stroke SX bike.
6
Richy
Profile picture for user Richy
Posts
3093
Joined
7/18/2020
Location
UK, GB
Richy 11/22/2021 12:25am
11/22/2021 12:25am
I kinda like the carb / kickstart / minimal tech on 2 Strokes, tbe current gen KTMs are perfect imo, as developed as you can get without adding complexity.

I understand the push to keep improving though and hope it works out as well as it could do.
4
tek14
Profile picture for user tek14
Posts
4927
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa, FI
tek14 11/22/2021 3:41am
11/22/2021 3:41am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2021 3:42am
Sounds like KTM will bring SX 2-strokes back to life. Imagine adjusting your car carb again when its cloudy day or sunshine. TPI was awesome in enduro models but this new combo TBi + Electric PV and start sounds even better for SX models.
5
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 4:40am
11/22/2021 4:40am
swordfish wrote:
The Electric PV pics have been floating around for a while. I don’t find the TM PV set up feels any better than my mechanical. What...
The Electric PV pics have been floating around for a while. I don’t find the TM PV set up feels any better than my mechanical. What are they thinking is going to be the main advantage?
Matt Fisher wrote:
I think it was an interview with Grant Langston, he said one of his factory bikes used an electronic PV for consistency. Centrifugal ones vary slightly...
I think it was an interview with Grant Langston, he said one of his factory bikes used an electronic PV for consistency. Centrifugal ones vary slightly based on engine temp, oil thickness, spring tension, etc. Could be wrong on it being a GL interview, but I do remember the consistency part.

Particularly with a FI engine, an electronic PV would give far more tunability for the end-user.
It‘s not so much about tuneability. The important thing is the ecu knows/dictates what the PV is doing.
Like you said, it’s consistant and reliable all the time. This is a benefit when you want to push the EFI towards a crisp/lean/responsive setting for moto.
1
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 6:21am
11/22/2021 6:21am
Here are the pics from moto_adviser:

No kick, but e-start, new frame and shock, old plastics:


Much nicer rear on the 23 husky:


5
1
GingerSnapRacing 11/22/2021 6:45am
11/22/2021 6:45am
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
4
6

Pit Row

See All »
Jeff_Brines
Profile picture for user Jeff_Brines
Posts
95
Joined
6/3/2019
Location
Jackson, WY, USA
Jeff_Brines 11/22/2021 8:16am
11/22/2021 8:16am
GingerSnapRacing wrote:
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not...
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
I don't understand anyone who says fuel injection is somehow harder to work on. Its incredibly simple. Injector(s), ECU, fuel pump. That's it.
22
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 8:24am
11/22/2021 8:24am
GingerSnapRacing wrote:
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not...
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I don't understand anyone who says fuel injection is somehow harder to work on. Its incredibly simple. Injector(s), ECU, fuel pump. That's it.
Yes, same here! And getting rid of the sticky mechanics of the PV doesn‘t hurt either.
1
suspensionguy 11/22/2021 8:26am
11/22/2021 8:26am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2021 8:30am
GingerSnapRacing wrote:
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not...
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I don't understand anyone who says fuel injection is somehow harder to work on. Its incredibly simple. Injector(s), ECU, fuel pump. That's it.
Until you have a problem, and spend hours or days chasing it. I had no voltage(well actually like .05v) going to my tps, so it would run but not correctly, would over fuel even with the tps set to spec tolerance. A average person will not be able to diagnose and fix a problem like that, ended up being a failed wiring harness. I’d personally take a carb and swapping jets over using a ohm meter but I’m dumb and will likely put a deposit down on a new 250sx as soon as they’re released.
5
3
GingerSnapRacing 11/22/2021 9:21am
11/22/2021 9:21am
GingerSnapRacing wrote:
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not...
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I don't understand anyone who says fuel injection is somehow harder to work on. Its incredibly simple. Injector(s), ECU, fuel pump. That's it.
I agree it is not the most complex thing but until on board diagnostics improve it’s not going to be near as simple. You can’t change my mind I KNOW how to work on EFI I know how to troubleshoot and diagnose. But I learned how to diagnose a not running carb bike in less than a day. EFI is a-lot more parts and a bit more expensive. Fuel pump, tps, in tank filter, external filter, battery, charging system, injector, intake temp sensor. A

It is actually harder to work on it’s not as easy to diagnose. Like I said I know how to work on it and it’s not the hardest thing in the world. But it is in fact more difficult at the track to fix than carb.

That said EFI if done correct with good electronics is more reliable and more consistent. Also has the potential for more power. But I personally as someone who keeps my bikes usually for 5-10 years have no interest in going EFI on a 2 stroke.
4
1
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 10:00am
11/22/2021 10:00am
Let‘s assume nothing breaks and everything works… what can one expect of a TBI 125SX with an electric PV compared to a well tuned carburated 125SX??
Has anybody rode a TBI EXC?
Pirate421
Profile picture for user Pirate421
Posts
1826
Joined
7/26/2015
Location
USA
Pirate421 11/22/2021 7:11pm
11/22/2021 7:11pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2021 7:12pm
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
FI2T
Profile picture for user FI2T
Posts
698
Joined
10/23/2012
Location
Kennewick, WA, USA
FI2T 11/22/2021 7:36pm
11/22/2021 7:36pm
GingerSnapRacing wrote:
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not...
I’ll be honest if KTM goes TBI,estart on the 125’s my next one will be a YZ or another pre 2023 125. For me it’s not about the power and ect but about the fact I like it simple and easy to work on.
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I don't understand anyone who says fuel injection is somehow harder to work on. Its incredibly simple. Injector(s), ECU, fuel pump. That's it.
suspensionguy wrote:
Until you have a problem, and spend hours or days chasing it. I had no voltage(well actually like .05v) going to my tps, so it would...
Until you have a problem, and spend hours or days chasing it. I had no voltage(well actually like .05v) going to my tps, so it would run but not correctly, would over fuel even with the tps set to spec tolerance. A average person will not be able to diagnose and fix a problem like that, ended up being a failed wiring harness. I’d personally take a carb and swapping jets over using a ohm meter but I’m dumb and will likely put a deposit down on a new 250sx as soon as they’re released.
It's not difficult to use a volt meter...
learn how test voltages or jetting for a rookie mechanic level? My money is on the rookie mechanic fixing an fi problem before getting a rough jetted two stroke to run perfect.
I get if carbs are all a guy has done, it is a learning curve and can be frustrating but it's not difficult with a little patience.
6
WS728
Profile picture for user WS728
Posts
36
Joined
7/27/2016
Location
West Mansfield, OH, USA
WS728 11/22/2021 8:15pm
11/22/2021 8:15pm
Pirate421 wrote:
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love...
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
Personally, I'm guessing it's the opposite. I don't see pre-mixed TBI passing Euro emissions regulations, but the SX and XC are both competition only bikes, and the XC is US-only and based on the SX platform.

I'm thinking pre-mixed TBI will be the closed-course offering on those bikes, developed for performance reasons and European EXCs (XCWs here) will still be TPI. I suppose it's also possible that our XCWs will get the TBI system, since I believe they're sold as closed-course bikes too, but I think oil injection is a significant selling point for trail riders.

I'm planning to buy the first one I can get my hands on too, but I'm not crazy about the plastic yet, so I guess I'm hoping that Husky or Gas Gas nails the styling. We'll see in a few weeks!
4
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 10:22pm
11/22/2021 10:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2021 10:38pm
Pirate421 wrote:
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love...
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
Looks like TPI and oil injection if emission standards have to be met and TBI with premix for pure competition models. Not sure if that’s going to be the case but it makes sense.
3
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/22/2021 11:27pm
11/22/2021 11:27pm
Here are pics of a 23 250SX from Mantova.
The bike has injection (which one I don‘t know) with a twin cable throttle housing, an electric PV, electric start and the new chassis without oil tank. What‘s interesting is that in the video the bike starts and rides off without a single puff of smoke coming out of the exhaust.





Source: vid from MotoAdviser https://youtu.be/nNHgnbQ7nWk
3
#434
Profile picture for user #434
Posts
1913
Joined
3/23/2017
Location
DE
#434 11/23/2021 12:37am
11/23/2021 12:37am
The area around the water pump has become much simpler without the actuator of the PV.


5
swordfish
Profile picture for user swordfish
Posts
1950
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
Somewhere, AB, CA
swordfish 11/23/2021 3:20am
11/23/2021 3:20am
Pirate421 wrote:
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love...
What does everyone think this means for the tpi bikes? Will they be regarded as oddball years and tank the resale? I know some people love them and some hate them. Or is tbi another measure to meet standards and the tpi could be “better” somehow? Just curious where I’ll be left standing with my XC next year.
TPI is not going anywhere. TBI won’t pass EURO4 or 5.
Most KTM Offroad 2 strokes are road legal in Europe. TBI is just for closed course race bikes.
2
2

Post a reply to: 2023 KTM models?