Kawasaki Motorcycles To Be All Electric by 2035

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 5:15am
10/10/2021 5:15am
Guess Mitch needs a new MFG. hard to be a hop up shop for a glorified PlayStation
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 5:16am
10/10/2021 5:16am
Zoom wrote:
I'm old school but love technology and love riding dirt bikes. I was also a Regional Manager at Alta and now work for Kawasaki. I'm willing...
I'm old school but love technology and love riding dirt bikes. I was also a Regional Manager at Alta and now work for Kawasaki.

I'm willing to bet that every person that has a negative opinion about an electric motocross bike has never ridden one. The only way you are going to know if you like an electric motocross bike is the ride one.

I started on a QA-50 to Z50 to racing an XR75 in 1973. Turned pro in 1980 and have had almost 100 bikes. The Alta was absolutely the most fun bike I have ridden.

My reasons why my Alta was the most fun bike to ride...

-Cornering was amazing. Although heavier than a 450, it felt more like a 250 weight wise. Alta did a study about rotating mass and found that the rotating mass of a 450 motor is equal to 90lbs. When corning an Alta it stays planted and did not what to stand up when accelerating.
-Always in the right gear. Never over revved, never bogging.
-Not a riding benefit, but I LOVED not having to ever clean an air filter or change oil.

My only complaint was the battery range. I raced my 3 times. 6 holeshots with 4 moto wins and 2 close 2nd's. I actually changed bikes between motos. These were Texas Summer motocross races with temps in the 90's. The battery didn't have enough time to cool off between motos and charging the battery puts heat in the battery. So I would use one of my demo's for one moto, and another one for the second moto.

I've done hundreds of test rides while at Alta and every one of them came off the bike with a huge smile on their face. Isn't that the reason we ride?

roninho wrote:
Do you expect that people will have a huge smile when watching a race full of e bikes? I am actually quite optimistic that i would...
Do you expect that people will have a huge smile when watching a race full of e bikes?

I am actually quite optimistic that i would like the riding part (never race an alta), and would love the ability to race nearby home without the noize issues. But watching a race without the sounds? Im pessimistic about that.
All you guys that think this opens up riding areas are high. The next complaint is dust, or traffic, or looking at your ugly faces. The people complaining just want to look at their solar panels and drink their kombucha in peace
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CPR
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CPR 10/10/2021 5:50am
10/10/2021 5:50am
Hey don’t doubt Kawi being at the leading edge of development!
Remember how awesome those first KX250f’s were?……oh never mind……
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/10/2021 5:56am
10/10/2021 5:56am
Jardo wrote:
Everything moving to electric dirt bikes does not scare me. The government / "Karens" of the world shutting down every track and riding spot is what...
Everything moving to electric dirt bikes does not scare me. The government / "Karens" of the world shutting down every track and riding spot is what scares me.

I just hope that there* is still off road bikes in the lineup in 2035.
Agreed
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/10/2021 5:57am
10/10/2021 5:57am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
All you guys that think this opens up riding areas are high. The next complaint is dust, or traffic, or looking at your ugly faces. The...
All you guys that think this opens up riding areas are high. The next complaint is dust, or traffic, or looking at your ugly faces. The people complaining just want to look at their solar panels and drink their kombucha in peace
Yeah, I got my PhD at Berkeley, so I know these people, they are insufferable and you’re right. However these people mostly don’t exist outside of California.
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Zoom
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Zoom 10/10/2021 6:03am
10/10/2021 6:03am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 6:53am
There are kids riding today on STACYC's or KTM Mini E that will have fun ridding dirt bikes for a lifetime and never use a drop of oil or gas.
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soggy
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soggy 10/10/2021 6:34am
10/10/2021 6:34am
Zoom wrote:
There are kids riding today on STACYC's or KTM Mini E that will have fun ridding dirt bikes for a lifetime and never use a drop...
There are kids riding today on STACYC's or KTM Mini E that will have fun ridding dirt bikes for a lifetime and never use a drop of oil or gas.
Yep all the else old farts saying electric will kill pro racing because the noise are only seeing it from there myopic view point. The next generations will know electric only. They’ll think it’s weird we use to have gas engines.
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STLSharky
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STLSharky 10/10/2021 6:38am
10/10/2021 6:38am
Bruce372 wrote:
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light. Gas and diesel is...
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light.

Gas and diesel is well on the way for obsolescence, and that's looking at performance not environment
Zycki11 wrote:
I think most understand the torque electric vehicles can produce. That’s besides the point. Moto loves the sound, smell, and rawness. Not exactly exciting listening to...
I think most understand the torque electric vehicles can produce. That’s besides the point. Moto loves the sound, smell, and rawness. Not exactly exciting listening to a little chain slap around with a high pitch noise
Sound is easy your going to be able to download artificial sounds. Can’t wait to hear a 80 Elsinore map
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lestat
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lestat 10/10/2021 6:39am
10/10/2021 6:39am
soggy wrote:
Yep all the else old farts saying electric will kill pro racing because the noise are only seeing it from there myopic view point. The next...
Yep all the else old farts saying electric will kill pro racing because the noise are only seeing it from there myopic view point. The next generations will know electric only. They’ll think it’s weird we use to have gas engines.
The younger generation LIKE the lack of noise . People and times change 🤷‍♂️
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sandtrack315
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sandtrack315 10/10/2021 6:43am
10/10/2021 6:43am
Old timers don’t realize how much of a barrier to entry maintenance is. Everyone is riding mountain bikes because they are low maintenance.
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kb228
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kb228 10/10/2021 6:56am
10/10/2021 6:56am
Bruce372 wrote:
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light. Gas and diesel is...
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light.

Gas and diesel is well on the way for obsolescence, and that's looking at performance not environment
You should only be looking at performance. Anyone serious about the environment knows about how much waste is made producing batteries and knows its asia polluting the atmosphere
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Jeff_Brines
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Jeff_Brines 10/10/2021 6:59am
10/10/2021 6:59am
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter what position I have and no matter how strongly I can provide evidence to "prove" my point.

I understand why certain people are upset at the prospect of ICE development going away. I also understand why others are excited about the prospect of electric, either for performance, the environment the lack of maintenance or just "having something different".

Some random thoughts...

1) These threads are good reflections of the psychological implications of change within the sport.
2) Nobody should freak out about your ICE motor being banned. I highly (highly) doubt it will be.
3) In ~15 years, I'll be psyched to be riding at a high enough level I care about performance, no matter where that performance comes from. Health is more important than how my motor sounds.
4) Don't forget who the real focal point of the sport will be (hint, its not a bunch of crusty 50+ year old); the youth will be into electric for all the reasons we may not be.
5) The change will be gradual.

The only thing constant in life is that things change. Its true in everything. We're far better embracing it than we are fighting a fool's errand and hoping like hell "things stay the same". They never do. And never will.

Enjoy the ride, no matter where it takes us...
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VRR7
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VRR7 10/10/2021 7:11am
10/10/2021 7:11am
Has anyone compared running of battery operated RC vehicles compared to Fuel RC vehicles ?

Fuel ones are much more fun !
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 7:14am
10/10/2021 7:14am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter...
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter what position I have and no matter how strongly I can provide evidence to "prove" my point.

I understand why certain people are upset at the prospect of ICE development going away. I also understand why others are excited about the prospect of electric, either for performance, the environment the lack of maintenance or just "having something different".

Some random thoughts...

1) These threads are good reflections of the psychological implications of change within the sport.
2) Nobody should freak out about your ICE motor being banned. I highly (highly) doubt it will be.
3) In ~15 years, I'll be psyched to be riding at a high enough level I care about performance, no matter where that performance comes from. Health is more important than how my motor sounds.
4) Don't forget who the real focal point of the sport will be (hint, its not a bunch of crusty 50+ year old); the youth will be into electric for all the reasons we may not be.
5) The change will be gradual.

The only thing constant in life is that things change. Its true in everything. We're far better embracing it than we are fighting a fool's errand and hoping like hell "things stay the same". They never do. And never will.

Enjoy the ride, no matter where it takes us...
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence the current push on these Factory Edition bikes.
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Jeff_Brines
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Jeff_Brines 10/10/2021 7:17am
10/10/2021 7:17am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence...
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence the current push on these Factory Edition bikes.
Does the tail wag the dog or is it the other way around?
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resetjet
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resetjet 10/10/2021 7:19am
10/10/2021 7:19am
EV=PEV(PREPAID EMISSIONS VEHICLE)
This has become hysteria. Plans are being made that have no basis in reality or science.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/10/2021 7:57am
10/10/2021 7:57am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 8:03am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter...
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter what position I have and no matter how strongly I can provide evidence to "prove" my point.

I understand why certain people are upset at the prospect of ICE development going away. I also understand why others are excited about the prospect of electric, either for performance, the environment the lack of maintenance or just "having something different".

Some random thoughts...

1) These threads are good reflections of the psychological implications of change within the sport.
2) Nobody should freak out about your ICE motor being banned. I highly (highly) doubt it will be.
3) In ~15 years, I'll be psyched to be riding at a high enough level I care about performance, no matter where that performance comes from. Health is more important than how my motor sounds.
4) Don't forget who the real focal point of the sport will be (hint, its not a bunch of crusty 50+ year old); the youth will be into electric for all the reasons we may not be.
5) The change will be gradual.

The only thing constant in life is that things change. Its true in everything. We're far better embracing it than we are fighting a fool's errand and hoping like hell "things stay the same". They never do. And never will.

Enjoy the ride, no matter where it takes us...
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence...
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence the current push on these Factory Edition bikes.
Newsflash: ~74% of statistics are made up or falsified. Do you have a source that shows 80% of all bikes sold are vet owned?

Newsflash: The push for WE models has nothing to do with the Vet crowd. The OEMs found a very inexpensive way to improve profit margin, without requiring massive R&D investment. In my area, I see far more WE models being bought by young adults (20-30 crowd)

Newsflash: By 2035, the +25 year old crowd that will be buying bikes are currently riding mini bikes, many of them electric. in a few more years, a kid will be able to start their career on an Edrive 50 and stay on electric models all the way up to big bikes.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/10/2021 8:11am
10/10/2021 8:11am
KTM Ag will be well ahead of 2035. They may not be 100% EV, but I think they will have EV models in each size bike for all disciplines before 2030. They are already MILES ahead of the competition with their e50s.

Kaw, Yam, Suz, Honda will be slower to adopt, but they are further ahead at this point, as all 4 companies already have EV domain and power train experience with other applications within their corporation.

I fully believe Triumph will debut with EV bikes. Do a little research on their EV partnership and research projects with Williams Engineering (yes, F1 Williams)

The OEs that are really going to struggle with this technology adoption are the small, niche manufactures like Beta, Sherco, TM, etc. The R&D investment is so large that I’m not sure how they will keep up.

Personally, I’m excited. This is the next technological revolution in the history of our sport and is fantastic for the sustainability of our future.
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sandhills
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sandhills 10/10/2021 8:13am
10/10/2021 8:13am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 8:14am
UK has already exempted motorcycles from their on road ICE ban. Off-road bikes are exempt there either way.

Off road bikes are exempt in EU as well.

Australia still has street legal out the door yz125's. I bet somehow they still will in 2035 too.

US dirt bikes are EPA competition exempt so none of the rules apply there either.

Fact of the matter is nowhere in the western world has any current or planned ban of off road ICE bikes whatsoever except for California. All other proposed or planned bans apply to plated bikes only.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 8:14am
10/10/2021 8:14am
Jeff_Brines wrote:
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter...
I find these threads intriguing. I know I'm not going to come into one and convince anyone that I'm right and they are wrong, no matter what position I have and no matter how strongly I can provide evidence to "prove" my point.

I understand why certain people are upset at the prospect of ICE development going away. I also understand why others are excited about the prospect of electric, either for performance, the environment the lack of maintenance or just "having something different".

Some random thoughts...

1) These threads are good reflections of the psychological implications of change within the sport.
2) Nobody should freak out about your ICE motor being banned. I highly (highly) doubt it will be.
3) In ~15 years, I'll be psyched to be riding at a high enough level I care about performance, no matter where that performance comes from. Health is more important than how my motor sounds.
4) Don't forget who the real focal point of the sport will be (hint, its not a bunch of crusty 50+ year old); the youth will be into electric for all the reasons we may not be.
5) The change will be gradual.

The only thing constant in life is that things change. Its true in everything. We're far better embracing it than we are fighting a fool's errand and hoping like hell "things stay the same". They never do. And never will.

Enjoy the ride, no matter where it takes us...
Johnny Ringo wrote:
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence...
Newsflash: it is the vet crowd that buys 80% of the bikes in this industry. Kids don’t buy bikes, poor college kids don’t buy bikes. Hence the current push on these Factory Edition bikes.
mxtech1 wrote:
Newsflash: ~74% of statistics are made up or falsified. Do you have a source that shows 80% of all bikes sold are vet owned? Newsflash: The...
Newsflash: ~74% of statistics are made up or falsified. Do you have a source that shows 80% of all bikes sold are vet owned?

Newsflash: The push for WE models has nothing to do with the Vet crowd. The OEMs found a very inexpensive way to improve profit margin, without requiring massive R&D investment. In my area, I see far more WE models being bought by young adults (20-30 crowd)

Newsflash: By 2035, the +25 year old crowd that will be buying bikes are currently riding mini bikes, many of them electric. in a few more years, a kid will be able to start their career on an Edrive 50 and stay on electric models all the way up to big bikes.
A simple google search shows the median age of a motorcycle owner is 47. And who is buying the motorcycles for those under 18?
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FLmxer
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FLmxer 10/10/2021 8:24am
10/10/2021 8:24am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 9:07am

I love the rev limiter Barcia style and its going to suck with out it but honestly my circular saw, drill, sawsall and now dirtbike are all battery powered and better and more convenient than gas or power cord with out a doubt. Crazy times.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/10/2021 8:47am
10/10/2021 8:47am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
A simple google search shows the median age of a motorcycle owner is 47. And who is buying the motorcycles for those under 18?
Pretty sure the stat you are looking at is the median age of owner for all motorcycles, which would include street bikes. This absolutely skews the data and isn’t relevant to the off-road discussion. Just an FYI, sometimes when you are Google searching, you have to go beyond the first link that pops up in the search queue 🙄

Your stat also doesn’t pass the smell test.

In 2020, Honda sold CRF50s at a nearly 4:1 ratio when compared to 450/250Fs. Similar trend for other OEMs.

When looking at the data for the the Top 10 Off-road models sold from all OEMs in North America, the 1st thru 5th best selling models are mini bikes and 6 of the top 10 on the list are minis. I did the math from this list and mini bike sales accounted for 73% of the new model off-road sales.
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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 10/10/2021 9:17am
10/10/2021 9:17am
VRR7 wrote:
Has anyone compared running of battery operated RC vehicles compared to Fuel RC vehicles ?

Fuel ones are much more fun !
Not even close. Electric RC is 1000 times better
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lestat
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lestat 10/10/2021 9:46am
10/10/2021 9:46am
VRR7 wrote:
Has anyone compared running of battery operated RC vehicles compared to Fuel RC vehicles ?

Fuel ones are much more fun !
Our track races 1/8 ebuggy and 1/8 gas buggy classes . Ebuggy is always faster and has three times the numbers entered . 🤷‍♂️
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 10:01am
10/10/2021 10:01am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
A simple google search shows the median age of a motorcycle owner is 47. And who is buying the motorcycles for those under 18?
mxtech1 wrote:
Pretty sure the stat you are looking at is the median age of owner for all motorcycles, which would include street bikes. This absolutely skews the...
Pretty sure the stat you are looking at is the median age of owner for all motorcycles, which would include street bikes. This absolutely skews the data and isn’t relevant to the off-road discussion. Just an FYI, sometimes when you are Google searching, you have to go beyond the first link that pops up in the search queue 🙄

Your stat also doesn’t pass the smell test.

In 2020, Honda sold CRF50s at a nearly 4:1 ratio when compared to 450/250Fs. Similar trend for other OEMs.

When looking at the data for the the Top 10 Off-road models sold from all OEMs in North America, the 1st thru 5th best selling models are mini bikes and 6 of the top 10 on the list are minis. I did the math from this list and mini bike sales accounted for 73% of the new model off-road sales.
I didn’t know 6 year olds were buying their bikes. Who buys the bikes for the kids? Their 35-40 year old parents.

That age group purchases the majority of motorcycles sold. You can try to spin it or strawman it but that is a fact.
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Project 2501 10/10/2021 10:03am
10/10/2021 10:03am
wisey wrote:
I don’t think electric vehicles are the answer environmentally. I can see the performance advantages. It seems like current battery technology is environmentally unsustainable. What does...
I don’t think electric vehicles are the answer environmentally. I can see the performance advantages.
It seems like current battery technology is environmentally unsustainable.
What does Tesla do with bad batteries?
They work with internal and external suppliers to recycle them. A process which is improving at an exponential rate because of the investments in it.

Some Tesla founder is locking down deals with Auto companies who need to recycle batteries by the month:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/22/ford-partners-with-battery-recycling-…

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xrclark433
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xrclark433 10/10/2021 10:08am
10/10/2021 10:08am
Bruce372 wrote:
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light. Gas and diesel is...
People are gonna be pretty shocked when they see the rear of a f150 lightening when it launches from a traffic light.

Gas and diesel is well on the way for obsolescence, and that's looking at performance not environment
People are gonna be shocked by the giant rainbow flag flying off the f150 lightning.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 10/10/2021 10:17am
10/10/2021 10:17am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 10:23am
If they can get these electric bikes to be better than the current crop of four strokes, I’m sure lots of people will buy them and the “core” purists will keep riding ICE’s that other brands still offer.

Same thing that happened in the late 2000s. Maybe, who knows.

Hope this doesn’t make Kawi stifle their four stroke development like it did their two stroke development.
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M1000
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M1000 10/10/2021 10:38am
10/10/2021 10:38am Edited Date/Time 10/10/2021 10:39am
If the machine is better than the current machines. Then no problem. It seems to me that manufactures are putting kart before the horse. Where is this consistent energy (power),coming from? Hydro, Coal, Wind, Sun, petrol, nuclear? Batteries store power. Battery Efficiency is becoming better by the week. Where is this energy coming from to power countries, cities, transportation, recreation, agriculture, etc? 10-14 years. It has Taken 100+ years to get where we are today. The politicians want to change energy source in 15 years?
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mattyhamz2 10/10/2021 10:43am
10/10/2021 10:43am
Johnny Ringo wrote:
A simple google search shows the median age of a motorcycle owner is 47. And who is buying the motorcycles for those under 18?
mxtech1 wrote:
Pretty sure the stat you are looking at is the median age of owner for all motorcycles, which would include street bikes. This absolutely skews the...
Pretty sure the stat you are looking at is the median age of owner for all motorcycles, which would include street bikes. This absolutely skews the data and isn’t relevant to the off-road discussion. Just an FYI, sometimes when you are Google searching, you have to go beyond the first link that pops up in the search queue 🙄

Your stat also doesn’t pass the smell test.

In 2020, Honda sold CRF50s at a nearly 4:1 ratio when compared to 450/250Fs. Similar trend for other OEMs.

When looking at the data for the the Top 10 Off-road models sold from all OEMs in North America, the 1st thru 5th best selling models are mini bikes and 6 of the top 10 on the list are minis. I did the math from this list and mini bike sales accounted for 73% of the new model off-road sales.
What your data isn’t showing is how many of those mini bikes are being purchased as play bikes for adults.

Also, I’m 31 and all of my friends that ride buy a new bike once every 3-5 years.
My dad and his buddies, 45+ and most of them but a new bike ever 8-12 months.

So what does that tell you?
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