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(4) A minimum of 400 machines must be available through U.S. dealers.
(8) Only a manufacturer can submit a machine for homologation. There is a $3000 fee to get a bike on the approved list.
Just give it up Port-a Johnny Dump ..
But if there is a production rule, then there obviously has to be some reasonable minimums for a bike to be on the approved list.
I think that there might be some middle ground that could be had. Perhaps AMA PRO should consider keeping the current numbers for the 250 class, but reduce the numbers for the 450 class to somewhere between 50-200. And don’t count the bikes that aren’t actually for sale, used by the factory teams, etc.
Make the manufacturer provide 3-5 units of each bike approved so they can be used for tech inspections and such.
Actually in a perfect world I’d probably support the SX series as more production based, but I’d want the Nationals (especially 450s) to be opened up to true ‘works bikes’.
I'm confused by your stance on this. You point out eliminating the homologation rule would bring more manufacturers to Pro racing, but I don't think that would happen. Small manufacturers don't have the resources to compete with the big manufacturers. And without production units to sell, how are they going to generate profit? You get into sunken-cost fallacy pretty quickly. More so, I am highly confident that a small manufacturer "works" bike would not even be competitive with what's already on the track. The bikes today are so damn good that you have to bring a tried and trued machine to the race or else you aren't going to be competitive.
Times have changed. Decades ago, there were so many gains to be made with R&D, that true works bikes could demonstrate exponential gains in performance. And during those eras, you had to build it and race it to learn what worked and what didnt. Those learnings would then be driven back to the production model. Think about how much better late 80s bikes are than bikes from the 60s. Not even in the same ballpark in only 20 years of advancement. Now think back to 2001 and compare those bikes to 2021 models. Are the '21 models better than 2001? Yes, of course, but the gap is not as astonishing as a 1960s model vs 1980s model. It doesn't have anything to do with works bikes or the homologation rule. Engineering is getting better, everything can be simulated now, better materials, better manufacturing processes, data acquisition, etc. now drives development, not some wild 1-off works bike trying to demonstrated some exotic part combination in a race.
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As you said, bike development is moving now at glacial speed. Alta and Cannondale never made it to the track, but they wanted to. It's a big club, and they weren't in it. At it's core it's an exclusionary policy designed to protect the existing manufacturer's.
If the production rule was scaled back, that wouldn't stop anyone from building more to sell to the public if they wish, but this rule is about providing a level playing field for pro racers. If you want to see how it might play out, look no further than MXGP, it hasn't changed much. Honda got 2 MXGP titles developing the new model. Besides, if they are no threat, what is the harm?
The next gen of bikes could likely look at automotive to see what might be coming. Direct injection, E-bikes or hybrid, 8-10 speed transmission and dual clutch systems, automatics, variable valve train etc.
As we see with the Honda WE, if the price goes up they still sell. Most pro's are replacing suspension and wheels and building their engines up anyway, so upgrades would be perfect for them. GNCC, Desert, Scrambles and Vet racers would likely also snap them up. It would likely result in 2 tiers of builds, much like we see today.
" I don't see the likes of Reiju or Fantic doing 4t's."
They have both a 250 and 450 4t, but are leading EMX250 and EMX125 on the 2t.
https://www.fantic.com/us-en/moto/motocross/34
https://www.fantic.com/us-en/content-News/double-triumph-for-fantic-_fl…
https://motocrossactionmag.com/cannondales-first-ever-national/
Pit Row
Former Womens MX Champ Stephie Bau is the CEO.
https://www.motorcyclepowersportsnews.com/fantic-usa-launches-rewards-p…
Past examples where true "works" development paved the way:
2 stroke engine performance
Air cooled to liquid cooled
Drum to disc brakes
Points ignition to CDI
Suspension development (Twin to mono-shock, tiny forks to decently "modern" twin chamber)
Drastic changes in frame geometry to enable increased suspension travel, modern ergonomics
I'm sure that I am forgetting some big one as some of this stuff happened before I was born, but you get the idea. All the stuff listed above was designed and then thrown on a "works" bike to prove it out. Radical gains were made. Many ideas failed. Some never made it to production, some did.
That list gets us up into 1985 when AMA banned the works bike.
From '86 on, in the last ~36 years from production based development has delivered:
2 stroke to 4 stroke revolution (obviously this is the BIG one, Yamaha is the exception when the forced the AMA to make an exemption claim to the homologation rule when they were ready to race the YZ400f in '99)
Steel to perimeter AL frames
Carb to Fuel Injection
Massive improvements in suspension (upside down forks, triple adjustment shocks, air forks, etc.)
Start mode / launch control
Hydraulic clutches
Torque (traction) control mapping
Electric start
Bluetooth connectivity for tuning Apps
Slipper clutches
Much more sophisticated software and improved hardware in the ECU & CDI
Data acquisition
The achievements made in the production based era are more linear than the works era, but not necessarily any less significant. For example, in my opinion, what manufactures have been able to with engine power delivery through FI/sensors/ECU software is as significant as say the 250T to YZ400F transition. Development and advancements just look different now. Today, most advancements are systematically engineered, proven in FEA, tested in prototype form for function and reliability, and then put into racing or production after they have passed all the above criteria. The modern method is so much more sophisticated than the "works bike" method that I can't wrap my head around why you would even want to go back to that.
Alta made more than enough bikes to homologate, but the AMA has a ban on e-bikes because they don't understand e-drive and won't adopt until KTM, Honda, or Yamaha are ready to release their models. So that's a political play, not homologation enforcement.
Cannondale & the MX400...let's be real here, that bike was a shit-box. It had some really cool features and honestly some forward thinking designs for the time, but that bike was FARRR from pro racing worthy. They needed years of testing and refinement before they even had something ready to produce, and that could have been done at the amateur level.
None of the teams/manufactures want to be building one-off bikes anymore. Its extremely expensive. Unproven parts break and/or don't always perform as expected. A major part of being successful in racing is minimizing risk and maximizing reliability. Even in MXGP, where teams are allowed more freedom than AMA MX/SX, the bikes are predominately still production-based.
So the only reason YZ250s aren’t homologated, is Yamaha hasn’t paid the lousy $3k!
I wonder with the investment in the new YZ125, they’ll pay the fee for it?
Second, it's still production based. Maybe sharpen those rules a bit, production frame, swingarm, etc already in the rules, but add more if needed to keep the bank account from dominating the bikes. Then it becomes setup and testing and rider... Well, it's already rider...
TM and Beta seem most likely to come in if it was made a little easier. Triumph when it has a bike. Sherco could, but they can now in EMX125, etc and don't. Fantic shows the fire, but Yamaha has them on a short leash.
Post a reply to: Homo Rule- 7200 production bikes for 500 pro riders?