Tomac to Yamaha?

stremme12
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stremme12 5/9/2021 4:41am
5/9/2021 4:41am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 5:01am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Barcia was not good on the Suzuki. His results were terrible. Not a single podium. He maybe had one single top 5 finish.
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Shaft721
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Shaft721 5/9/2021 8:46am
5/9/2021 8:46am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Yeah okay. Bike makes no difference
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Brad460
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Brad460 5/9/2021 9:14am
5/9/2021 9:14am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Shaft721 wrote:
Yeah okay. Bike makes no difference
When comparing full factory built/prepped bikes of all brands to each other I don’t think there is a huge difference between them all. I don’t think one bike is “better” than another per say..

That being said, some riders may be more comfortable on a certain brand bike versus another which would translate to better results.
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Up Wind
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Up Wind 5/9/2021 10:46am
5/9/2021 10:46am Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 11:06am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
I think he will win both titles next year.
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zehn
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zehn 5/9/2021 11:27am
5/9/2021 11:27am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
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mxrose3
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mxrose3 5/9/2021 11:34am
5/9/2021 11:34am
zehn wrote:
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
I think a lot of it had to do with Kenny lighting a fire under his ass, but yeah, the bike might have had something to do with it too.... hard to say.
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Up Wind
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Up Wind 5/9/2021 11:53am
5/9/2021 11:53am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
zehn wrote:
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
Easy....He was not in shape mentally or physically to win. He had the speed. Aldon got him ready. AP 7 will do the same next year.
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loftyair
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loftyair 5/9/2021 12:50pm
5/9/2021 12:50pm
Different bikes perform different depending on type rider and day. But, not being able to change it the way you like it, that's a problem. Pirelli or Dunlop anyone?
fullysicmate
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fullysicmate 5/9/2021 1:21pm
5/9/2021 1:21pm
loftyair wrote:
Different bikes perform different depending on type rider and day. But, not being able to change it the way you like it, that's a problem. Pirelli...
Different bikes perform different depending on type rider and day. But, not being able to change it the way you like it, that's a problem. Pirelli or Dunlop anyone?
Keep the Pirelli, i'll take the Dunlop if there no Michelin's available.
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SCC
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SCC 5/9/2021 1:23pm
5/9/2021 1:23pm
My only question is how does Tomac perform in the nationals. Class act goes out with a title.
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twotwosix
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twotwosix 5/9/2021 1:49pm
5/9/2021 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 1:52pm
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
It's not the bike as much as it is the team. If Tomac was happy at Factory Kawi, he would finish his career there. He isn't happy and hasn't been for a minute. The Factory Kawasaki team and the KX450 are PLENTY capable of wining. They are among the best ever teams in recent Supercross history, BUT that does not mean Eli is happy there. Eli wants a change and and it's probably got little to do with the color of the plastic on his race bike...

(Barcia looks much better on the Austrian bike, btw. His old Honda, RMZ and YZFs were never the best bike in their generations. He looked great this year, everyone just looked bad compared to the 94 and the 2. IMO)
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twotwosix
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twotwosix 5/9/2021 1:53pm
5/9/2021 1:53pm
SCC wrote:
My only question is how does Tomac perform in the nationals. Class act goes out with a title.
I'd bet money on it.
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Timo
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Timo 5/9/2021 2:50pm
5/9/2021 2:50pm
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
twotwosix wrote:
It's not the bike as much as it is the team. If Tomac was happy at Factory Kawi, he would finish his career there. He isn't...
It's not the bike as much as it is the team. If Tomac was happy at Factory Kawi, he would finish his career there. He isn't happy and hasn't been for a minute. The Factory Kawasaki team and the KX450 are PLENTY capable of wining. They are among the best ever teams in recent Supercross history, BUT that does not mean Eli is happy there. Eli wants a change and and it's probably got little to do with the color of the plastic on his race bike...

(Barcia looks much better on the Austrian bike, btw. His old Honda, RMZ and YZFs were never the best bike in their generations. He looked great this year, everyone just looked bad compared to the 94 and the 2. IMO)
How does he look better? If Anderson wasn't DGAF this year Barcia would have been 5th place overall, exact same as last year...
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TbonesPop 5/9/2021 3:10pm
5/9/2021 3:10pm
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
zehn wrote:
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
The "team" at KTM had much more to do with it than the bike "platform". Yes, the KTM is a good bike. ALL bikes at this level are good bikes, but not all teams are the same. Multiple riders have commented in the past that the factory Yamaha team effort and how they handled rider settings, etc was not on par with what other teams can or will offer.

Team KTM headed up by Roger DeCoster will do anything and everything to get the bike right. Want an example of this? Look at Suzuki with Roger and look at Suzuki without Roger. Look at KTM prior to Roger, look at KTM with Roger. Webb has said many times over, his fitness wasn't right when he was on the Yamaha. In addition to all of this, Webb only had 1 year on the '18 YZ model changes. And notably, those changes were very significant for the YZ.

As much as many fanboy posters want to say "rider A switched to bike B and did better, thus bike B is better than bike A" is just not comparing apples to apples. The rider can have a serious change in attitude. Coop was making a salary of $2M at team Yamaha whether he won or finished 15th. He had to have a fire lit under his ass because he pretty much got fired and if he didn't get his shit together, he wouldn't have had a ride at all. Roger saw something in Coop that he thought he could fix. Was the team's ability to do pretty much anything within the rules part of that? I'd bet so.

But this whole Cooper left and got better. Barcia left and got better (very debatable still IMHO). Is nothing more than mental masturbation. If anything it points to me that Factory Yamaha was a big part of the problem and given the improvements this year, Star is a significant part of that.

There are just many many factors and pointing to a bike change being it is misleading in the very least.
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cable
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cable 5/9/2021 8:11pm
5/9/2021 8:11pm
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
zehn wrote:
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
TbonesPop wrote:
The "team" at KTM had much more to do with it than the bike "platform". Yes, the KTM is a good bike. ALL bikes at this...
The "team" at KTM had much more to do with it than the bike "platform". Yes, the KTM is a good bike. ALL bikes at this level are good bikes, but not all teams are the same. Multiple riders have commented in the past that the factory Yamaha team effort and how they handled rider settings, etc was not on par with what other teams can or will offer.

Team KTM headed up by Roger DeCoster will do anything and everything to get the bike right. Want an example of this? Look at Suzuki with Roger and look at Suzuki without Roger. Look at KTM prior to Roger, look at KTM with Roger. Webb has said many times over, his fitness wasn't right when he was on the Yamaha. In addition to all of this, Webb only had 1 year on the '18 YZ model changes. And notably, those changes were very significant for the YZ.

As much as many fanboy posters want to say "rider A switched to bike B and did better, thus bike B is better than bike A" is just not comparing apples to apples. The rider can have a serious change in attitude. Coop was making a salary of $2M at team Yamaha whether he won or finished 15th. He had to have a fire lit under his ass because he pretty much got fired and if he didn't get his shit together, he wouldn't have had a ride at all. Roger saw something in Coop that he thought he could fix. Was the team's ability to do pretty much anything within the rules part of that? I'd bet so.

But this whole Cooper left and got better. Barcia left and got better (very debatable still IMHO). Is nothing more than mental masturbation. If anything it points to me that Factory Yamaha was a big part of the problem and given the improvements this year, Star is a significant part of that.

There are just many many factors and pointing to a bike change being it is misleading in the very least.
in the past the riders had to run the teams setup whether they liked it or not. valving specs, etc. You dont hear many factory riders come out and say it until they are retired. Ive heard of some teams swapping shocks before a heat or main because thats what the boss ordered. not what the rider wanted
Richy
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Richy 5/9/2021 11:43pm
5/9/2021 11:43pm
Cable, *if true* that is the dumbest thing ever.

From working in motorsport for some years previously, people can hype up their job as much as they like but most often your purpose as part of the team on raceday is to make the driver/rider comfortable and give them what they think they need to win... or they likely won't.

Some egomaniac boss making set up changes contrary to a riders wishes seems about as ridiculous a thing as I could imagine. I understand Yamaha didn't facilitate certain large changes, but really?
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Richy
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Richy 5/9/2021 11:46pm
5/9/2021 11:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/9/2021 11:46pm
I mean really, what good are someone else's settings to a top level pro rider, they know what they're feeling even the guys who aren't mechanically minded?

Not to call you out bro and I'm sorry for the double post, but do you have a source for that?

It's just baffling me haha.
Zycki11
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Zycki11 5/10/2021 6:04am
5/10/2021 6:04am
Richy wrote:
Cable, *if true* that is the dumbest thing ever. From working in motorsport for some years previously, people can hype up their job as much as...
Cable, *if true* that is the dumbest thing ever.

From working in motorsport for some years previously, people can hype up their job as much as they like but most often your purpose as part of the team on raceday is to make the driver/rider comfortable and give them what they think they need to win... or they likely won't.

Some egomaniac boss making set up changes contrary to a riders wishes seems about as ridiculous a thing as I could imagine. I understand Yamaha didn't facilitate certain large changes, but really?
While I agree that it is ludicrous they would do such a thing. Reedy did mention that Yamaha was notoriously stubborn with changing the motorcycle. Also he mentioned that in 2010 when he went to Kawi they had the bike setup for RV. They did not want the bike to stray away from this setup because they felt it as a winning combo ex RV.
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Richy
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Richy 5/10/2021 8:58am
5/10/2021 8:58am
Insane, thanks man 😆

Can't even imagine being a legit skilled rider, telling the mechanic the front's harsh in the braking bumps and the boss man just says "nah it's good"...
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disbanded
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disbanded 5/10/2021 9:06am
5/10/2021 9:06am
That's probably why Keith McCarthy and the whole lot of old guards at Yamaha were recently 'retired'. Also Fisher from Kawasaki.
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D.K.O.N.
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D.K.O.N. 5/10/2021 9:14am
5/10/2021 9:14am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Up Wind wrote:
I think he will win both titles next year.
I'm a HUGE Tomac fan...but I'd put $10k on this NOT happening. lol
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shmuen
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shmuen 5/10/2021 10:24am
5/10/2021 10:24am
zehn wrote:
Then how do you explain Webb's turnaround, both over the last 3 years and this year specifically?
mxrose3 wrote:
I think a lot of it had to do with Kenny lighting a fire under his ass, but yeah, the bike might have had something to...
I think a lot of it had to do with Kenny lighting a fire under his ass, but yeah, the bike might have had something to do with it too.... hard to say.
Think Webb was about to take a nap till roczen started whining about everything, and the the fire was lit.
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 5/10/2021 10:45am
5/10/2021 10:45am
New podcast with Matthes and Paul Perebijnos is on Stitcher regarding Tomac, Yamaha and some other silly season. It’s a good listen.
tek14
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tek14 5/10/2021 10:48am
5/10/2021 10:48am
Zycki11 wrote:
New podcast with Matthes and Paul Perebijnos is on Stitcher regarding Tomac, Yamaha and some other silly season. It’s a good listen.
What did they say?
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 5/10/2021 10:54am
5/10/2021 10:54am
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be the best team in the pits with the staff. Star to offer Mookie another contract for next year. Anderson to Kawi.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 5/10/2021 11:05am
5/10/2021 11:05am
Zycki11 wrote:
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be...
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be the best team in the pits with the staff. Star to offer Mookie another contract for next year. Anderson to Kawi.
Interesting also is Dave Arnold consulting for Star
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Preston412
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Preston412 5/10/2021 11:16am
5/10/2021 11:16am
Zycki11 wrote:
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be...
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be the best team in the pits with the staff. Star to offer Mookie another contract for next year. Anderson to Kawi.
Stewart will not be back at Star, he is slated to take the open spot at Husky.
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byke
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byke 5/10/2021 11:19am
5/10/2021 11:19am
Mit12 wrote:
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have...
Tomac will perform the same on any brand. The bike is such a little part of the puzzle now days. Look at Barcia his results have been the same on everything he has ridden. Remember when everyone thought that Dungey was done when he went to KTM?
Tomac might, but setup with Elito is a real crutch.
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stremme12
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stremme12 5/10/2021 11:22am
5/10/2021 11:22am
Zycki11 wrote:
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be...
Steve does not believe this will change Tomacs results. He was unhappy at Kawasaki with bike setup(Much to his own fault). Paul believes Kawi to be the best team in the pits with the staff. Star to offer Mookie another contract for next year. Anderson to Kawi.
Preston412 wrote:
Stewart will not be back at Star, he is slated to take the open spot at Husky.
Which open spot?
Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 5/10/2021 11:28am
5/10/2021 11:28am
Zycki11 wrote:
New podcast with Matthes and Paul Perebijnos is on Stitcher regarding Tomac, Yamaha and some other silly season. It’s a good listen.
tek14 wrote:
What did they say?
I don’t want to be a dick, but it’s a 20 minute episode bro. Go listen.
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