21 crf450r vs. 21 ktm 450 engine weight

yamaha450mx
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yamaha450mx
Edited Date/Time 2/5/2021 1:53pm
I've been wondering for a while how much lighter the ktm engine was with the head and cylinder being more compact. I was expecting some but not around 5 kg(around 10 lbs)
https://youtu.be/o1Moh9sywJw
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Lastander
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Lastander 2/3/2021 1:07pm
2/3/2021 1:07pm
The ktm engine is nothing less than excellent, the power, weight, compact size and durability is in a class of its own.
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Tim507
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Tim507 2/3/2021 1:15pm
2/3/2021 1:15pm
Been riding KTM's for years and when I look at 2021 KX450 motor I just grunt!! Can you imagine if they put some development into the Japanese motors!!!
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mx_phreek 2/3/2021 2:09pm
2/3/2021 2:09pm
So the engine is the main 11lb difference in the bikes not the chassis and auxiliary components, interesting.
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BobbyLight
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BobbyLight 2/3/2021 2:14pm
2/3/2021 2:14pm
mx_phreek wrote:
So the engine is the main 11lb difference in the bikes not the chassis and auxiliary components, interesting.
I always kinda figured this was the case as aluminum is lighter than steel
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soggy
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soggy 2/3/2021 2:24pm
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wrc777
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wrc777 2/3/2021 2:26pm
2/3/2021 2:26pm
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
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yz133rider
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yz133rider 2/3/2021 2:33pm
2/3/2021 2:33pm
wrc777 wrote:
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add...
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
According to vitals 21 shootout the ktm is 7lbs lighter than the yz
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soggy
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soggy 2/3/2021 2:49pm
2/3/2021 2:49pm
wrc777 wrote:
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add...
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
What’s the weigh difference?
yamaha450mx
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yamaha450mx 2/3/2021 4:28pm
2/3/2021 4:28pm
mx_phreek wrote:
So the engine is the main 11lb difference in the bikes not the chassis and auxiliary components, interesting.
Yea I figured most of it would come from the chassis but looks like its the engine and air forks
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wrc777 2/3/2021 5:26pm
2/3/2021 5:26pm
wrc777 wrote:
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add...
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
yz133rider wrote:
According to vitals 21 shootout the ktm is 7lbs lighter than the yz
Dirt rider shows 3lbs difference.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 2/3/2021 5:40pm
2/3/2021 5:40pm
That KTM is “2 generations old”...I wonder that they’re working on these days?
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Broseph 2/3/2021 6:13pm
2/3/2021 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 2/3/2021 6:17pm
Lastander wrote:
The ktm engine is nothing less than excellent, the power, weight, compact size and durability is in a class of its own.
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things:

- Ports are dang near perfect. No valve seat mismatch. The seat to port is smoothed by hand on every head. Pretty sure that’s what Honda calls “ported” on their WE.

- Roller cam bearings. This means you won’t destroy the head instantly if it runs dry.

- The breather system is absolutely genius. It vents through the back of the hollow cam, and there are angled cross-drilled holes near the cam sprocket that let air in but throw oil outwards. The cam basically doubles as an air/oil separator for the breather.

- There’s a crank stop at TDC that is accessed by removing an extra thick washer from under a bolt head on the water pump side. Thread the bolt back in and it contacts a notch in the crank which locks it at TDC. Made cam timing a breeze.

- Then of course there’s the clutch which is a work of art.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 2/4/2021 12:32am
2/4/2021 12:32am
TeamGreen wrote:
That KTM is “2 generations old”...I wonder that they’re working on these days?
December 2021 will be interesting.
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fullysicmate 2/4/2021 12:48am
2/4/2021 12:48am
yamaha450mx wrote:
I've been wondering for a while how much lighter the ktm engine was with the head and cylinder being more compact. I was expecting some but...
I've been wondering for a while how much lighter the ktm engine was with the head and cylinder being more compact. I was expecting some but not around 5 kg(around 10 lbs)
https://youtu.be/o1Moh9sywJw
Cool, crazy difference though
2
timobijnen84 2/4/2021 1:00am
2/4/2021 1:00am
Broseph wrote:
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things: - Ports...
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things:

- Ports are dang near perfect. No valve seat mismatch. The seat to port is smoothed by hand on every head. Pretty sure that’s what Honda calls “ported” on their WE.

- Roller cam bearings. This means you won’t destroy the head instantly if it runs dry.

- The breather system is absolutely genius. It vents through the back of the hollow cam, and there are angled cross-drilled holes near the cam sprocket that let air in but throw oil outwards. The cam basically doubles as an air/oil separator for the breather.

- There’s a crank stop at TDC that is accessed by removing an extra thick washer from under a bolt head on the water pump side. Thread the bolt back in and it contacts a notch in the crank which locks it at TDC. Made cam timing a breeze.

- Then of course there’s the clutch which is a work of art.
The timing crank stop works amazing and the first time a saw the ktm clutch i was just overwhelmed. From an engineering perspective it looks amazing.
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tek14
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tek14 2/4/2021 2:46am
2/4/2021 2:46am
I would love to try 5kg lighter Honda or Yamaha 450f.
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yamaha450mx
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yamaha450mx 2/4/2021 6:00am
2/4/2021 6:00am
yamaha450mx wrote:
I've been wondering for a while how much lighter the ktm engine was with the head and cylinder being more compact. I was expecting some but...
I've been wondering for a while how much lighter the ktm engine was with the head and cylinder being more compact. I was expecting some but not around 5 kg(around 10 lbs)
https://youtu.be/o1Moh9sywJw
fullysicmate wrote:
Cool, crazy difference though
For sure I was surprised
yamaha450mx
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yamaha450mx 2/4/2021 6:02am
2/4/2021 6:02am
tek14 wrote:
I would love to try 5kg lighter Honda or Yamaha 450f.
It'll be interesting to see what yamaha does with the 2022 450 as it should he a all new model.

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mx317
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mx317 2/4/2021 6:21am
2/4/2021 6:21am
mx_phreek wrote:
So the engine is the main 11lb difference in the bikes not the chassis and auxiliary components, interesting.
BobbyLight wrote:
I always kinda figured this was the case as aluminum is lighter than steel
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the strength you need.
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FGR01 2/4/2021 6:26am
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tek14 wrote:
I would love to try 5kg lighter Honda or Yamaha 450f.
He actually weighed a YZ450F engine for the video also. Thankfully, he weighed it after the Honda and KTM engines. It crushed and destroyed the scale so he just edited that part out.
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245MX
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245MX 2/4/2021 9:05am
2/4/2021 9:05am
For anyone that's interested a set of AER 48's are exactly 1.94 KG's lighter than after they've had the spring conversion (Technical touch conversion in this case). I had the conversion done and took before and after weight measurements.
soggy
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soggy 2/4/2021 10:42am
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mx317 wrote:
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the...
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the strength you need.
Pretty sure this has been debunked
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Brent 2/4/2021 10:56am
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Motofinne wrote:
December 2021 will be interesting.
I just hope my wheels and suspension still fit, I spent a lot of $ on both...
mx317
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mx317 2/4/2021 11:34am
2/4/2021 11:34am
mx317 wrote:
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the...
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the strength you need.
soggy wrote:
Pretty sure this has been debunked
Originally, aluminum frames were lighter than the steel frames they replaced, but over time, they began to gain weight. As aluminum tubes were replaced with castings and, eventually, castings with forgings, the aluminum frames became stronger, more rigid and offered increased durability. But, they got heavier. Engineers knew this as far back as the 1990s. In fact, in the 1990s, ATK designer Horst Leitner got tired of beefing up the aluminum swingarms that came on ATK 604s and welded up a chromoly swingarm of the same dimensions. Shockingly, he discovered that the old-fashioned steel swingarm was several pounds lighter. The days of the simple aluminum swingarm had been replaced by Brooklyn Bridge-style structures that were no longer lighter than a steel swingarm.

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luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 2/4/2021 1:17pm
2/4/2021 1:17pm
Broseph wrote:
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things: - Ports...
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things:

- Ports are dang near perfect. No valve seat mismatch. The seat to port is smoothed by hand on every head. Pretty sure that’s what Honda calls “ported” on their WE.

- Roller cam bearings. This means you won’t destroy the head instantly if it runs dry.

- The breather system is absolutely genius. It vents through the back of the hollow cam, and there are angled cross-drilled holes near the cam sprocket that let air in but throw oil outwards. The cam basically doubles as an air/oil separator for the breather.

- There’s a crank stop at TDC that is accessed by removing an extra thick washer from under a bolt head on the water pump side. Thread the bolt back in and it contacts a notch in the crank which locks it at TDC. Made cam timing a breeze.

- Then of course there’s the clutch which is a work of art.
timobijnen84 wrote:
The timing crank stop works amazing and the first time a saw the ktm clutch i was just overwhelmed. From an engineering perspective it looks amazing.
I love reading about stuff like this.
1
Dirty Points 2/4/2021 1:31pm
2/4/2021 1:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2021 1:50pm
mx317 wrote:
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the...
The KTM frame is as light or lighter than the aluminum frames. Aluminum is lighter, but you have to use more of it to get the strength you need.
soggy wrote:
Pretty sure this has been debunked
Isn't it largely debunked right here in this thread? I mean, the entirety of the motorcycle's weight differential (Vital had the two bikes 8 lbs apart on its scale) is less than the differential in the engine posted in the OP. Which means even with the addition of spring forks and additional stock guards (skid plate, brake guard, etc) the Honda chassis weighs less.
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wreckitrandy 2/4/2021 2:08pm
2/4/2021 2:08pm
wrc777 wrote:
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add...
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
yz133rider wrote:
According to vitals 21 shootout the ktm is 7lbs lighter than the yz
wrc777 wrote:
Dirt rider shows 3lbs difference.
Dirt Rider said the Cannondale was the bike of the year....
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wrc777
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wrc777 2/4/2021 5:50pm
2/4/2021 5:50pm
yz133rider wrote:
According to vitals 21 shootout the ktm is 7lbs lighter than the yz
wrc777 wrote:
Dirt rider shows 3lbs difference.
wreckitrandy wrote:
Dirt Rider said the Cannondale was the bike of the year....
4 lbs difference in cycle news but they have the gasgas 2 lbs lighter than the ktm and the kx 3 lbs heavier than the ktm. Crazy how 3 different magazines all get different weights.
Mikey150
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Mikey150 2/5/2021 5:25am
2/5/2021 5:25am
wrc777 wrote:
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add...
The KTM 250 and 350 engines are pigs relatively speaking and if you look a KTM 250 SXF is 3 lbs lighter than the YZ250F. Add spring forks to the KTM and it is the same weight as the YZ.
That is BS, but then again I’ll take that as relative to a certain riding style.

I’ve owned and and put many hours on in the last 6 years a 15 YZ250F (stock), 08 YZ250 (modded), 17 250sx (heavily modded), 18 RMZ450 (modded) and currently own a full stock 19 250SXF.

And a 250SXF is far from a pig, one of the faste/t track bikes out of the lot, pro or not.
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7I3N 2/5/2021 5:58am
2/5/2021 5:58am
Lastander wrote:
The ktm engine is nothing less than excellent, the power, weight, compact size and durability is in a class of its own.
Broseph wrote:
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things: - Ports...
Absolutely agree. Just put a piston in mine, and the engineering is incredible. I was only top end deep, but noticed a few things:

- Ports are dang near perfect. No valve seat mismatch. The seat to port is smoothed by hand on every head. Pretty sure that’s what Honda calls “ported” on their WE.

- Roller cam bearings. This means you won’t destroy the head instantly if it runs dry.

- The breather system is absolutely genius. It vents through the back of the hollow cam, and there are angled cross-drilled holes near the cam sprocket that let air in but throw oil outwards. The cam basically doubles as an air/oil separator for the breather.

- There’s a crank stop at TDC that is accessed by removing an extra thick washer from under a bolt head on the water pump side. Thread the bolt back in and it contacts a notch in the crank which locks it at TDC. Made cam timing a breeze.

- Then of course there’s the clutch which is a work of art.
Yeah the KTM clutch basket looks like F1 stuff. KTMs are light because they make every effort to make them light, one part at a time.









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