Why do some shops offer no discounts?

mxracerjohn250 5/4/2020 11:26am
5/4/2020 11:26am
Best way to buy a new car anymore is to do an internet bid on the radius your willing to look. Every dealer has the same car. They then know they are competing for your business with others, before you even walk in the dealer. You get their best price right off the bat.

I just bought a one year old car. Stopped and looked at it, knew it was a nice car. Sent them an email offer, $4000 under what they were selling it for. One phone call, agreed to a price $3700 less than asking price, and I showed up, went for a drive, signed the paper work and was out of there.

As someone else mentioned, people do business very differently today.
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c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 5/4/2020 12:18pm
5/4/2020 12:18pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2020 12:41pm
Dealer A sells 10 bikes at full MSRP. Say that's $10,000 with $4,000 in profit.

Dealer B sells 40 bikes for a discounted rate of $7,000 and had $1,000 in profit.

2 different business models. Same result. Dealer A actually did less work and had to prep and deliver 30 less bikes for the same money.

Heavily discounting your inventory only makes sense if your doing very large volumes. Not every dealer can be a volume dealer. There are geographical road blocks that prevent that.

Just another great example of the internet killing small business. Joe blow is now driving 200 miles to buy a bike for less from a much larger dealer he found on the internet while his local dealer goes out of business. He then complains he can't find any parts locally and has to drive 200 miles to get anything. What a world we live in.
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premiersportsoutlet 5/4/2020 12:28pm
5/4/2020 12:28pm
Worst dealers are those who advertise leftover bikes at a great price and when you show up “all of them have been sold” but they have the newest models available....
mx1313
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mx1313 5/4/2020 12:33pm
5/4/2020 12:33pm
Most places won't negotiate over the phone. Unless you know someone in the shop, most just quote sugg retail on random phone call price inquiries.. I don't blame them either. Too many numb nuts trying to save $14 will make calls to every shop within 400 miles and expect their local place to honor some bullshit phone price from a shop 100 miles away.
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The Shop

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captmoto
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captmoto 5/4/2020 1:28pm
5/4/2020 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2020 1:31pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Most dealers I’ve ever dealt with in So Cal will not give an OTD price unless the seem to know you on a pretty decent personal...
Most dealers I’ve ever dealt with in So Cal will not give an OTD price unless the seem to know you on a pretty decent personal level. You can tell them you’re paying cash and they still want you to come down before an OTD price is given. That’s my experience and a few friends have had the same. I did have 1 shop near by that gave me a ballpark OTD price(it was within $30 of our actual OTD price) for a PW50. We went and bought it from them two days later.
Cash is not king anymore buying cars, UTVs or bikes. Dealers want to finance if they can to make that overhead on the loan. Big cash is a headach since it triggers the IRS forms reporting a deposit of over $10k for the dealer. If you are trying to buy a car with cash the dealer is going to stick as close to MSRP as they can so they don't get the sweet overhead of that car loan interest.

If you want to get an OTD price over the phone you need to form a relationship with your dealer. Otherwise they know you are only shopping for the lowest price and are not interested in becoming a loyal customer.

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olderandYZer
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olderandYZer 5/4/2020 2:11pm
5/4/2020 2:11pm
I thought Kawi had rebates( I'm sure they did last month)

Why do dealers quote vfc retail plus when there are rebates? IDK, but I bet they try to get the rebate and retail price from the customer. That is why so many dont like bike shops.

At least buying a car, they tell you of the rebates since they are plastered on TV. Well the ones the car companies advertise. Are well documented. I'm sure the same thing happens with auto dealers also and they keep the rebate at times.
mattyhamz2 5/4/2020 2:58pm
5/4/2020 2:58pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Most dealers I’ve ever dealt with in So Cal will not give an OTD price unless the seem to know you on a pretty decent personal...
Most dealers I’ve ever dealt with in So Cal will not give an OTD price unless the seem to know you on a pretty decent personal level. You can tell them you’re paying cash and they still want you to come down before an OTD price is given. That’s my experience and a few friends have had the same. I did have 1 shop near by that gave me a ballpark OTD price(it was within $30 of our actual OTD price) for a PW50. We went and bought it from them two days later.
captmoto wrote:
Cash is not king anymore buying cars, UTVs or bikes. Dealers want to finance if they can to make that overhead on the loan. Big cash...
Cash is not king anymore buying cars, UTVs or bikes. Dealers want to finance if they can to make that overhead on the loan. Big cash is a headach since it triggers the IRS forms reporting a deposit of over $10k for the dealer. If you are trying to buy a car with cash the dealer is going to stick as close to MSRP as they can so they don't get the sweet overhead of that car loan interest.

If you want to get an OTD price over the phone you need to form a relationship with your dealer. Otherwise they know you are only shopping for the lowest price and are not interested in becoming a loyal customer.

We didn't pay cash and let them know that we would be financing. Obviously I know interest rates change things a bit, but a general estimate would be nice. Again, only found that with one shop.
HighPlainsSquid 5/4/2020 4:22pm
5/4/2020 4:22pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2020 5:02pm
Brad460 wrote:
I am gonna say you lost more than “some deals”...Bought my 2015 YZ450 over the phone and email. Worked out a price and gave him a...
I am gonna say you lost more than “some deals”...Bought my 2015 YZ450 over the phone and email. Worked out a price and gave him a credit card down payment over the phone. Came in a few days later and completed the sale.

Did the same last week on a new tractor, the year before a new boat and a new truck.....If a dealer can’t adapt to the way a customer wants to do business (phone, email or in person) then your giving up business.

In my experience the best dealers operate this way..

I don’t always have time to come into your store and put up with the dealer antics...The more I think about it every thing I purchase from a dealer initiated via a phone call..No deal over the phone and I’ll move on to a better dealer.
Same here... I live on a ranch in NE New Mexico. You guys talk about driving 30 miles... I have to drive 15 just to get off the ranch and 10 of those are dirt roads. Nearest motorcycle dealer is 65 miles away (and I've bought 3 bikes and a UTV from him) and the nearest KTM dealer is 150 miles. I don't have TIME to drive those distance just to get your price.

I e-mail, explain my deal, tell 'em what I'm looking or and say "What's OTD?" So far, we've bought 2 from the same CO Springs dealer _because_ he was good at e-mail. Bought one from another dealer in Pueblo CO because they also answered my e-mails. Don't answer my e-mails, I go with someone who does.

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Dropbear
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Dropbear 5/4/2020 4:25pm
5/4/2020 4:25pm
They’d rather deal with numpties who don’t know anything about bikes or the market.
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Tuna
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Tuna 5/6/2020 4:29am
5/6/2020 4:29am
philG wrote:
We never discounted over the phone... turn up, with cash.. haggle.. if you arent there in person you arent buying.
Yeah I bet that’s how it was back in the Stone Age but this is 2020 now pops. And a dealer would much rather you finance and not pay cash. Cash doesn’t make them any money.
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bh84
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bh84 5/6/2020 6:29am
5/6/2020 6:29am
Tuna wrote:
Yeah I bet that’s how it was back in the Stone Age but this is 2020 now pops. And a dealer would much rather you finance...
Yeah I bet that’s how it was back in the Stone Age but this is 2020 now pops. And a dealer would much rather you finance and not pay cash. Cash doesn’t make them any money.
Sorry to tell you but around here there`s not much money in the financing side unless you screw your customer over. I do sales and finance at a large dealership and we might pick up an extra $200 on a good deal. If we jack the interest rate(yes, dealers can choose from several with the same bank) we make more, but who wants to do that?
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mikec265
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mikec265 5/6/2020 7:38am
5/6/2020 7:38am
motoGleamer wrote:
I heard in Beverly Hills you're supposed to disregard the factory rebates and show up with a suitcase full of cash chained to your wrist and...
I heard in Beverly Hills you're supposed to disregard the factory rebates and show up with a suitcase full of cash chained to your wrist and offer to pay higher than MSRP.

If you cant afford to do that then you're probably poor and have a low credit score and you probably wear socks with your sandals.
Mr. Afterbar wrote:
I'm all for people who wear socks with sandals paying MSRP plus tax and fees.
Don't pick on the socks with Crocs guys, or I'll get offended and hit you with a caps lock key! Gotta have a little toe protection.
Huevos
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Huevos 5/6/2020 8:01am
5/6/2020 8:01am
c0ncEpT wrote:
Dealer A sells 10 bikes at full MSRP. Say that's $10,000 with $4,000 in profit. Dealer B sells 40 bikes for a discounted rate of $7,000...
Dealer A sells 10 bikes at full MSRP. Say that's $10,000 with $4,000 in profit.

Dealer B sells 40 bikes for a discounted rate of $7,000 and had $1,000 in profit.

2 different business models. Same result. Dealer A actually did less work and had to prep and deliver 30 less bikes for the same money.

Heavily discounting your inventory only makes sense if your doing very large volumes. Not every dealer can be a volume dealer. There are geographical road blocks that prevent that.

Just another great example of the internet killing small business. Joe blow is now driving 200 miles to buy a bike for less from a much larger dealer he found on the internet while his local dealer goes out of business. He then complains he can't find any parts locally and has to drive 200 miles to get anything. What a world we live in.
I don't know man, most of my experiences at local dealers are not good. Limited part selections, high pricing, arrogant bro-hard employees... a much better experience is to be had by going online, finding exactly what I need at a super low price and having it shipped to my door two days later.

I say this as my brother owns his own shop and I hope he continues to have continued success, but he adds no additional fees to the sticker price on the bikes he sells. Sale price + tax, and he offers a lot of discounted service to customers. Very few shops are willing to do that, which makes it hard to get excited about supporting.
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Ryan598
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Ryan598 5/6/2020 12:16pm
5/6/2020 12:16pm
I think I have bought somewhere in the range of 25-30 brand new bikes. Not 1 time have I stepped into the dealership before getting an OTD price over the phone. Wouldn't even consider it.

If you are getting a price over the phone and it changes when you get there, find a new dealer.
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motoarmageddon 5/6/2020 10:55pm
5/6/2020 10:55pm
The only people who can answer this question is the dealership. Ask them. Or just dont buy from them. A lot of shops, actually most of them, are not putting food on the table for a family. Many many shops are just tax write offs for some mega rich person who doesnt care if hes doing good with bike sales. A kawi rep told me that most of his dealers own something else bigger. Usually construction or car dealers. The moto dealership is just a side business, so theres no passion or desire to make deals. Fuck those kind of shops
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HighPlainsSquid 5/7/2020 5:58am
5/7/2020 5:58am
c0ncEpT wrote:
Dealer A sells 10 bikes at full MSRP. Say that's $10,000 with $4,000 in profit. Dealer B sells 40 bikes for a discounted rate of $7,000...
Dealer A sells 10 bikes at full MSRP. Say that's $10,000 with $4,000 in profit.

Dealer B sells 40 bikes for a discounted rate of $7,000 and had $1,000 in profit.

2 different business models. Same result. Dealer A actually did less work and had to prep and deliver 30 less bikes for the same money.

Heavily discounting your inventory only makes sense if your doing very large volumes. Not every dealer can be a volume dealer. There are geographical road blocks that prevent that.

Just another great example of the internet killing small business. Joe blow is now driving 200 miles to buy a bike for less from a much larger dealer he found on the internet while his local dealer goes out of business. He then complains he can't find any parts locally and has to drive 200 miles to get anything. What a world we live in.
Assuming each person buys 1 bike.... Dealer A has 10 people thru the door. Dealer B has 40. People thru the door is always a good thing and will result in parts, accessories sales down the line if the dealer has the stuff and good prices.

Don't overlook that.

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mx1313
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mx1313 5/7/2020 7:54am
5/7/2020 7:54am
If you deal with the same place for years, you'll get a discount. Some people who have never stepped foot into a shop expect to get the same price as someone who has literally spent $50,000 over the past 10 years. I know one the owners of a fairly large dealership. Some of the shit they tell me is comical. People will waste their time over $75 or $100 on a $10k bike and then be a big shot and walk away when they won't match the price. THEN, these same cock knockers drive 100 miles only to realize the sales tax is 2% more at the other dealership...lol. Fucking hilarious shit.
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OG725
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OG725 5/7/2020 8:08am
5/7/2020 8:08am
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a profit? Does the salesman deserve a commission, or should he be working for free?
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Hallzilla
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Hallzilla 5/7/2020 8:25am
5/7/2020 8:25am
MotoGUY wrote:
I own a motorcycle dealership and it costs 140K to open the doors every month. If a shop isn’t quick to sell you something at invoice...
I own a motorcycle dealership and it costs 140K to open the doors every month. If a shop isn’t quick to sell you something at invoice and wait 30 days on $300 worth of a hold back. Don’t take it personally the motocross bike business alone can’t keep any motorcycle shop open. We tell customers our best price is inside the store and dealers all pay the same for units from the OEM. We have probably lost some deals but we have a great facility and staff and we charge more to offer better services than someone who has a low overhead and no staff and can whore stuff out.
Brad460 wrote:
I am gonna say you lost more than “some deals”...Bought my 2015 YZ450 over the phone and email. Worked out a price and gave him a...
I am gonna say you lost more than “some deals”...Bought my 2015 YZ450 over the phone and email. Worked out a price and gave him a credit card down payment over the phone. Came in a few days later and completed the sale.

Did the same last week on a new tractor, the year before a new boat and a new truck.....If a dealer can’t adapt to the way a customer wants to do business (phone, email or in person) then your giving up business.

In my experience the best dealers operate this way..

I don’t always have time to come into your store and put up with the dealer antics...The more I think about it every thing I purchase from a dealer initiated via a phone call..No deal over the phone and I’ll move on to a better dealer.
Totally agree.

Translation, You bet I charge full pop with added BS fees, shipping etc. But hey we have great people here who will lube Yer corn hole when entering the dealership and try to pry more money out of you by charging full pop on some gear too. All that plus some great advice. Sounds Awesome.
yz133rider
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yz133rider 5/7/2020 8:28am
5/7/2020 8:28am
OG725 wrote:
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a...
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a profit? Does the salesman deserve a commission, or should he be working for free?
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging fees, handling fees, and anal lube fees that add to $17 dollars in total. Where as another dealer advertises 1.50 and thats the actual total price. Which would you like to buy from?
wwdiii
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wwdiii 5/7/2020 8:30am
5/7/2020 8:30am
MotoGUY wrote:
I own a motorcycle dealership and it costs 140K to open the doors every month. If a shop isn’t quick to sell you something at invoice...
I own a motorcycle dealership and it costs 140K to open the doors every month. If a shop isn’t quick to sell you something at invoice and wait 30 days on $300 worth of a hold back. Don’t take it personally the motocross bike business alone can’t keep any motorcycle shop open. We tell customers our best price is inside the store and dealers all pay the same for units from the OEM. We have probably lost some deals but we have a great facility and staff and we charge more to offer better services than someone who has a low overhead and no staff and can whore stuff out.
yz133rider wrote:
The only service i really want from a dealer is agressive pricing and no bs sale tactics like 1500 in extra fees on top of the...
The only service i really want from a dealer is agressive pricing and no bs sale tactics like 1500 in extra fees on top of the listed price.

Other people's needs vary. But thats literally all im after.
Chances are, if a dealer is consistantly over priced on the sales end, they are typically over priced on the Service end too!!

mx1313
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mx1313 5/7/2020 8:37am
5/7/2020 8:37am
This internet shopping is good for some people. You can call all over, waste your fucking time for $300 and feel good about yourself. These are the same people that bitch when they lose their friggin job and their community is ravaged because a company picks up and moves to another state for tax benefits. Hey,they were just shopping to save $300...just like you.
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Panic_Rev
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Panic_Rev 5/7/2020 9:29am
5/7/2020 9:29am
OG725 wrote:
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a...
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a profit? Does the salesman deserve a commission, or should he be working for free?
yz133rider wrote:
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging...
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging fees, handling fees, and anal lube fees that add to $17 dollars in total. Where as another dealer advertises 1.50 and thats the actual total price. Which would you like to buy from?
OG Walmart price matches along with a lot of other retailers. Do you pay list price on your vehicles?
yz133rider
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yz133rider 5/7/2020 9:40am
5/7/2020 9:40am
OG725 wrote:
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a...
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a profit? Does the salesman deserve a commission, or should he be working for free?
yz133rider wrote:
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging...
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging fees, handling fees, and anal lube fees that add to $17 dollars in total. Where as another dealer advertises 1.50 and thats the actual total price. Which would you like to buy from?
Panic_Rev wrote:
OG Walmart price matches along with a lot of other retailers. Do you pay list price on your vehicles?
Goodness Nevermind.
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wwdiii
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wwdiii 5/7/2020 10:14am
5/7/2020 10:14am
Don't ya just love it when one person tells another how they should spend their money!!!! That always goes over really well, about like a fart in a space suit........!!!

RMT
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RMT 5/7/2020 11:02am
5/7/2020 11:02am
You have to wonder why anyone would own a motorcycle dealership. A business model where most customers tell you they don’t need you and then decide how much your profit will be based on what they think is fair.
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RMT
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RMT 5/7/2020 11:07am
5/7/2020 11:07am
OG725 wrote:
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a...
Why do you feel entitled to a discount? Do you ask for a discount at WalMart? The grocery store? Does the shop deserve to make a profit? Does the salesman deserve a commission, or should he be working for free?
yz133rider wrote:
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging...
Well thats not remotely comparable. If 1 walmart advertised bread for 1 dollar and then when you go to actually pay there is, wrapping fees, bagging fees, handling fees, and anal lube fees that add to $17 dollars in total. Where as another dealer advertises 1.50 and thats the actual total price. Which would you like to buy from?
Panic_Rev wrote:
OG Walmart price matches along with a lot of other retailers. Do you pay list price on your vehicles?
And so do many bike dealers! Why do people get so butt hurt when a dealership doesn’t do business the Wal Mart way?
wwdiii
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wwdiii 5/7/2020 11:08am
5/7/2020 11:08am
Unfortunaly my customers in some cases tell me how much we can mark up Material. How much they will pay for Labor, both Hourly and Chemical Engineers Project managers etc. Will only pay half rate while someone is traveling to a job site. They dictate payment terms, net 30, net 45, net 60 days and more.

Its called doing business, its been going on in this country for a long time.
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Tuna
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Tuna 5/7/2020 1:04pm
5/7/2020 1:04pm
RMT wrote:
You have to wonder why anyone would own a motorcycle dealership. A business model where most customers tell you they don’t need you and then decide...
You have to wonder why anyone would own a motorcycle dealership. A business model where most customers tell you they don’t need you and then decide how much your profit will be based on what they think is fair.
I have loads of customers who dictate my pricing. If it makes business sense and the overall blended margin of my portfolio stays pretty close where my company needs it to be than I can make the call to give them that pricing.
Some people will pay what ever pricing structure you set up for them, some demand discounts. The type of business segment also dictates this. I sell to primarily two types of businesses. One type usually averages 15%, the other 8 to 10%. 70% of my business is at the first, 30% is the latter.

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