More Harley Davidson Trouble

KBOLTZ
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KBOLTZ
Edited Date/Time 10/28/2019 5:05pm
Seems they are pulling production on their full size livewire bikes. Things seem bleak over there.

https://www.ibtimes.com/harley-davidson-suspends-production-delivery-al…
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Flesh206
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Flesh206 10/17/2019 5:23am
10/17/2019 5:23am
Could've sold more Alta's....
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newmann
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newmann 10/17/2019 5:40am
10/17/2019 5:40am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2019 5:40am
Casting wrote:
I think this is already being discussed in the other thread on this topic.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Harley-Electric-not-flyi…

Page 4
Mods moved it to non moto for some reason.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Harley-Electric-not-flyi…

EDIT: beat me to the link...
dickjackson170 10/17/2019 5:46am
10/17/2019 5:46am
Consumers aren't ready to go all in on electric? Shocking.
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kaptkaos
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kaptkaos 10/17/2019 5:48am
10/17/2019 5:48am
What dis they think was going to happen when they release a highly overpriced electric sport bike to Harley VTwin audiences? Harley sales are already down because they think they can sell a Street Glide with a new paint scheme for $5k more than the previous year. I love HD but they are losing their minds with the price of bikes.
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captmoto
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captmoto 10/17/2019 6:46am
10/17/2019 6:46am
kaptkaos wrote:
What dis they think was going to happen when they release a highly overpriced electric sport bike to Harley VTwin audiences? Harley sales are already down...
What dis they think was going to happen when they release a highly overpriced electric sport bike to Harley VTwin audiences? Harley sales are already down because they think they can sell a Street Glide with a new paint scheme for $5k more than the previous year. I love HD but they are losing their minds with the price of bikes.
People want made in America until they have to pay for made in America.
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kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 10/17/2019 6:52am
10/17/2019 6:52am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2019 6:52am
Slow charging maybe catching on fire from over heating?
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kb228
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kb228 10/17/2019 7:06am
10/17/2019 7:06am
Its easier to blame charging speed and pulling the product than to admit the bike and price is simply not a good feasible product
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early
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early 10/17/2019 7:13am
10/17/2019 7:13am
They should have released their small E-bikes first. They had some good looking concepts that would have been attainable for their target audience. The livewire was supposed to be a flagship that combines a green status symbol with a Harley status symbol for tech bros, they should have worked up to it IMHO.
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bvm111
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bvm111 10/17/2019 7:17am
10/17/2019 7:17am
There is something about riding a motorcycle with a gasoline powered motor, MX, street, cruiser, single, twin or 4 cylinder that I don’t think you get with an electric. No sound, no vibration, no exhaust or fuel fumes. I am not saying there is not a place for electric, but to me my opinion is it would seem more like a toy to me than a motorcycle.
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tttrailhunter 10/17/2019 7:21am
10/17/2019 7:21am
alta strike 1
live wire strike 2

what a bunch of clowns
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omalley
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omalley 10/17/2019 7:45am
10/17/2019 7:45am
bvm111 wrote:
There is something about riding a motorcycle with a gasoline powered motor, MX, street, cruiser, single, twin or 4 cylinder that I don’t think you get...
There is something about riding a motorcycle with a gasoline powered motor, MX, street, cruiser, single, twin or 4 cylinder that I don’t think you get with an electric. No sound, no vibration, no exhaust or fuel fumes. I am not saying there is not a place for electric, but to me my opinion is it would seem more like a toy to me than a motorcycle.
Agree 100%.
I think that when the only way we’ll get away with riding (earth nuts, developers etc) is to go electric is when it will become a feasible option that becomes popular. I wouldn’t go electric until I was forced to....

...of course I said I’d find another hobby before I’d ride a four-stroke, too, and I see how that worked out...Laughing
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early
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early 10/17/2019 7:45am
10/17/2019 7:45am
bvm111 wrote:
There is something about riding a motorcycle with a gasoline powered motor, MX, street, cruiser, single, twin or 4 cylinder that I don’t think you get...
There is something about riding a motorcycle with a gasoline powered motor, MX, street, cruiser, single, twin or 4 cylinder that I don’t think you get with an electric. No sound, no vibration, no exhaust or fuel fumes. I am not saying there is not a place for electric, but to me my opinion is it would seem more like a toy to me than a motorcycle.
Electric motorcycling will evolve up from electric scooters/E-bikes, not down from full-size motorcycles.
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disbanded
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disbanded 10/17/2019 7:49am
10/17/2019 7:49am
Great decisions being made over there at Harley...
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motogrady
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motogrady 10/17/2019 8:05am
10/17/2019 8:05am

HIP HIP HOORAY!

Another American Company with issues.

Hopefully this will kill the brand!
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theycallmeebryan 10/17/2019 8:09am
10/17/2019 8:09am
early wrote:
Electric motorcycling will evolve up from electric scooters/E-bikes, not down from full-size motorcycles.
Ex-Alta Motors employees just took their shirts off.
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motomike137
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motomike137 10/17/2019 8:13am
10/17/2019 8:13am
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
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m21racing
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m21racing 10/17/2019 8:31am
10/17/2019 8:31am
I worked as a mechanic for hd, i went to school and chose hd course, hd sent me to dealership sponsored training out of state. While I ride one ,(everyday I can) the company seems to suffer from bad marketing decisions. Buell/V Rod were innovative, but poorly executed. There were watercooled units, but that has died in bagger market. The brand has gained a following with a younger market with the dyna/fxr market, but those models are no longer in production. It seems the used bike, and aftermarket parts manufacturers are what's making the brand appear more successful than it is.

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kb228
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kb228 10/17/2019 8:32am
10/17/2019 8:32am
motomike137 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many...
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
Its because harley literally makes subpar products with a huge price premium.

When you look at what bikes you can buy from anyone else and compare it to harley you wonder why people even buy a harley.

Also, look at KTMs superduke 1290 vtwin. Its comperable in size to an 80CI engine. Harley has 114CI (1870cc) vtwins that dont even come close to the power the superduke has. Lets not forget the superduke can be made into a touring bike AND a track bike and weighs like 450lbs. Also it costs sub $20,000. Again, why buy a harley?

All the MFGs make cruisers cheaper and as capable or more capable than harley does. Again, why buy harley.

Other than “theyre cool and i can fit in”, im still searching for a legitimate reason to buy one. Then again this Kawasaki ZH2 is coming out.. looks way more fun than any cruiser..
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early
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early 10/17/2019 8:33am
10/17/2019 8:33am
theycallmeebryan wrote:
Ex-Alta Motors employees just took their shirts off.
That's fair, but these teething problems seen by Alta and Harley whether it's financial or electro-mechanical have the potential to sink the industry by leaving people with a bad taste in their mouths when it comes to a major personal investment in new technology. Many customers will come from those that are already comfortable with electric transportation but aren't necessarily motorcyclists already, 14k for a dirt bike or 30k for a Harley dramatically limits the pool of customers willing to take a dive. Put these out there for <5K and grow a new Harley customer base.
https://youtu.be/orYE1swBkXE
https://youtu.be/x_6kY-T3cA8
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m21racing
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m21racing 10/17/2019 8:42am
10/17/2019 8:42am
motomike137 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many...
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
kb228 wrote:
Its because harley literally makes subpar products with a huge price premium. When you look at what bikes you can buy from anyone else and compare...
Its because harley literally makes subpar products with a huge price premium.

When you look at what bikes you can buy from anyone else and compare it to harley you wonder why people even buy a harley.

Also, look at KTMs superduke 1290 vtwin. Its comperable in size to an 80CI engine. Harley has 114CI (1870cc) vtwins that dont even come close to the power the superduke has. Lets not forget the superduke can be made into a touring bike AND a track bike and weighs like 450lbs. Also it costs sub $20,000. Again, why buy a harley?

All the MFGs make cruisers cheaper and as capable or more capable than harley does. Again, why buy harley.

Other than “theyre cool and i can fit in”, im still searching for a legitimate reason to buy one. Then again this Kawasaki ZH2 is coming out.. looks way more fun than any cruiser..
Those debates existed since the intro of 4 cyl imports. People ride hd because they like them; just as any other motorcycle someone chooses. I've been riding 20yrs, I prefer hd on road. If I had a dollar for every "gidget bike" rider who always points out the lack of performance of my bike compared to theirs, I'd buy another Harley.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 10/17/2019 8:50am
10/17/2019 8:50am Edited Date/Time 10/17/2019 8:52am
motomike137 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many...
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
There are responses that have legitimate opinions and considerations towards what is the "cuase and affect" of Harley's most recent marketing failure:

1. $30K (plus!) Electric Motorcycle marketed towards...well, who...? Again THIRTY K!
2. Could Have - Should Have marketed an actual smaller and more AFFORDABLE version/versions.
3. Appears to be an epic "fail" when it comes to realizing that such a large company did not do any -real & legitimate- market research. Bullshiting themselves at the "Board Room Level" seems to be an issue there. "If you build it, they will come" is for movies: it doesn't work out here, in the real world.

Creating more riders...
Getting people on motorcycles...again.
Getting families "back out there"...

There's a little known fact about the average Harley rider: they started out on a dirt bike out in a field...when they were a kid. I learned this during the creation of the USMCA (United States Motorcycle Coaching Association). There was an industry wide questionaire that had very broad participation, including involvement from Harley...and the answer to "How did you start riding?" was brought to the table...by Harley.

About the USMCA: They're all about strengthening the learning experience & doing all that can be done to get more people on motorcycles.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/17/2019 8:53am
10/17/2019 8:53am
They developed a very specific charger for the dealerships that can quick charge batteries in a short amount of time. These chargers are very specific to the requirements that the lithium ion batteries need and have the proper hardware and logic built into the charger to know how hard to charge it, when to shut it off, and can also detect problems within the cells of the battery pack. If the cells within the battery become unbalanced, it can detect that and prohibit a charge from occurring via a balance board circuit.

When the bike is charged at home through a 110V outlet, it relies on the hardware within the bike’s electrical system to administer a charge input cutoff signal to protect the cells from being over-charged or from administrating a charge to a degraded, unstable battery that has unbalanced cells.

Harley states they found a “non-standard condition during final quality checks” when charging the batteries on a 110V outlet. A little bit of industry research shows other EV manufacturers have recently experienced lithium-ion battery fires, due to faulty electrical hardware and logic, when charging on standard home outlets. I would make an educated assumption that they are just now getting to the point in their testing where they are seeing lithium-ion battery fires on batteries that are simulated to be a few years old. Lithium ion batteries degrade over time and can become more unstable if they are not routinely discharged and charged correctly, thus the cells within the battery become unbalanced and handle charging differently (heat). They are probably finding that they do not have the correct hardware and electrical logic within the bikes system to deal with a degraded and unbalanced battery pack, and without the fancy HD charger, a user could inadvertently induce an “event” when charging on a 110V outlet. They’ve realized it’s a significant enough engineering issue that its cheaper (and safer) to halt production than to continue to produce and sell the bikes and then offer a mandatory recall on the parts that need upgraded which in my mind tells me it’s going to be new circuitry within the electrical hardware, new programming, and probably a modified wiring harness. It would cost them a fortune to recall and have all of those parts replaced through their dealerships.

Lithium ion battery fires are no joke. They are violent and cannot be extinguished with a traditional fire extinguisher. So more than likely if a Livewire lithium ion battery ignites it’s going to be a total loss on the bike and quite possibly burn your whole garage down as well.
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Red Crawford
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Red Crawford 10/17/2019 9:11am
10/17/2019 9:11am
motomike137 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many...
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
kb228 wrote:
Its because harley literally makes subpar products with a huge price premium. When you look at what bikes you can buy from anyone else and compare...
Its because harley literally makes subpar products with a huge price premium.

When you look at what bikes you can buy from anyone else and compare it to harley you wonder why people even buy a harley.

Also, look at KTMs superduke 1290 vtwin. Its comperable in size to an 80CI engine. Harley has 114CI (1870cc) vtwins that dont even come close to the power the superduke has. Lets not forget the superduke can be made into a touring bike AND a track bike and weighs like 450lbs. Also it costs sub $20,000. Again, why buy a harley?

All the MFGs make cruisers cheaper and as capable or more capable than harley does. Again, why buy harley.

Other than “theyre cool and i can fit in”, im still searching for a legitimate reason to buy one. Then again this Kawasaki ZH2 is coming out.. looks way more fun than any cruiser..
Big deal. I raced a R&D-built YZ80 and a FMF Mini Elsinore. 💪👈 Those same years, I also rode a DT175 to school....a f'n DT175. 😐 And, I've owned 40 something other motorcycles in my lifetime, including 5 HD's. I've also done hard hours on BMW r1200rtp and Honda st1300pa duty bikes. Do I ride all bikes the same? Hell no. Do I love all bikes? You bet yer sweet ass I do! All of 'em....including that decrepit DT175.🏁
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Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 10/17/2019 9:29am
10/17/2019 9:29am
I think there would be a market for electric scooters for people who need small commuter bikes or college campus bikes.
kb228
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kb228 10/17/2019 9:39am
10/17/2019 9:39am
Excaliburbmx wrote:
I think there would be a market for electric scooters for people who need small commuter bikes or college campus bikes.
A grom or z125 sized bike would be sweet as an electric. Might be able to get more power too. Would be an affordable way for people to get into harley... maybe.
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Forty
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Forty 10/17/2019 9:52am
10/17/2019 9:52am
I used to ride Harley’s.
KHI Guy
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KHI Guy 10/17/2019 9:53am
10/17/2019 9:53am
motomike137 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many...
I don't understand the hate for Harley on this forum. If their product isn't your cup of tea I get that but it seems like many here have a grudge against the brand and that I don't get. I love everything two wheeled personally.
Because people have the attitude that "I don't like it, so therefore nobody else should either."

If ever bought another cruiser, a Harley would be the first one I looked at. Why? 1) They aren't these awful bikes like everyone thinks they are. 2) I just happen to like them.

I am a motorcycle "enthusiast"; I love everything with two wheels.
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newmann
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newmann 10/17/2019 10:44am
10/17/2019 10:44am
I remember another time Harley scrapped bikes that were obsolete before they hit the dealers floor...



Sad face x Sad Sad
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GIwasB4
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GIwasB4 10/17/2019 10:48am
10/17/2019 10:48am
kaptkaos wrote:
What dis they think was going to happen when they release a highly overpriced electric sport bike to Harley VTwin audiences? Harley sales are already down...
What dis they think was going to happen when they release a highly overpriced electric sport bike to Harley VTwin audiences? Harley sales are already down because they think they can sell a Street Glide with a new paint scheme for $5k more than the previous year. I love HD but they are losing their minds with the price of bikes.
captmoto wrote:
People want made in America until they have to pay for made in America.

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