Club MX being sued, could affect other tracks?

brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/17/2019 7:10pm
Lucifa. wrote:
OMG you are one dumb fucker. Your name isn't Brandon by any chance?
you beat me to it.
1
1
1/17/2019 7:14pm
brocster wrote:
If its packed and “open” to all skill levels it needs to be split is all we are saying and if not split its needs to...
If its packed and “open” to all skill levels it needs to be split is all we are saying and if not split its needs to be restricted by skill. i.e. no beginners on the Main. It can’t just be a free for all or people will keep dying is all we are advocating for. Why is this so hard for you to understand? This thread is about the responsible parties and we all agree that the parents ahve some responsibility but so should the track. If there are no posted or advertised rules then people will follow just that, no rules. Its really not that hard to understand. We understand you understand the rules but there are many that don’t and we are advocating that it changes some how some way.
What's hard for you to understand. If your slow and cant jump Stay on the vet track. It's like arguing with ignorance. Again you guys thinking...
What's hard for you to understand. If your slow and cant jump Stay on the vet track. It's like arguing with ignorance.

Again you guys thinking it's a good idea to be a new rider on a packed main. Wow brilliant idea
Lucifa. wrote:
OMG you are one dumb fucker. Your name isn't Brandon by any chance?
Here We go another keyboard warrior.
3
brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/17/2019 7:17pm
Here We go another keyboard warrior.
So then he is just like your dumb ass.
why dont you open a track, ill keep track of how many times the ambulance and the coroners office is there.
ill put it in an excel spreed sheet for you
2
1/17/2019 7:22pm
Here We go another keyboard warrior.
brody wrote:
So then he is just like your dumb ass. why dont you open a track, ill keep track of how many times the ambulance and the...
So then he is just like your dumb ass.
why dont you open a track, ill keep track of how many times the ambulance and the coroners office is there.
ill put it in an excel spreed sheet for you
Lol..yeah ok
Alright "bro" you win.
Don't ride here in socal. Might offend your sensibilities without split practices.
4

The Shop

brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/17/2019 7:25pm
ok so ill start that spread sheet for,
we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid points
ok BRO
1
Lucifa.
Posts
1415
Joined
4/14/2009
Location
Christchurch, NZ
1/17/2019 7:26pm
What's hard for you to understand. If your slow and cant jump Stay on the vet track. It's like arguing with ignorance. Again you guys thinking...
What's hard for you to understand. If your slow and cant jump Stay on the vet track. It's like arguing with ignorance.

Again you guys thinking it's a good idea to be a new rider on a packed main. Wow brilliant idea
Lucifa. wrote:
OMG you are one dumb fucker. Your name isn't Brandon by any chance?
Here We go another keyboard warrior.
No, Just calling a spade, a spade. Carry on.
1
1/17/2019 7:28pm
brody wrote:
ok so ill start that spread sheet for, we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid...
ok so ill start that spread sheet for,
we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid points
ok BRO
How about this "bro". Start a social justice group demand the government to implement rules and regulations for split practice justice.
5
1/17/2019 7:31pm
Lucifa. wrote:
OMG you are one dumb fucker. Your name isn't Brandon by any chance?
Here We go another keyboard warrior.
Lucifa. wrote:
No, Just calling a spade, a spade. Carry on.
No problem..let me guess a monster tattoo and fox sticker on your window? Maybe some airbox freestyle cutouts, Cut fenders?
3
brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/17/2019 7:33pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2019 7:34pm
brody wrote:
ok so ill start that spread sheet for, we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid...
ok so ill start that spread sheet for,
we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid points
ok BRO
How about this "bro". Start a social justice group demand the government to implement rules and regulations for split practice justice.
dont try to fit me into the pro government, pro law, bitch category


And you are one dumb fucker
why dont you go back to your boyfriend and whine about how your butt hurts
bro
you are the type of people that get these kids killed and cause these accidents
1/17/2019 7:37pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2019 7:39pm
brody wrote:
ok so ill start that spread sheet for, we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid...
ok so ill start that spread sheet for,
we will also count how many times you get butt hurt because your a dumb ass with invalid points
ok BRO
How about this "bro". Start a social justice group demand the government to implement rules and regulations for split practice justice.
brody wrote:
dont try to fit me into the pro government, pro law, bitch category And you are one dumb fucker why dont you go back to your...
dont try to fit me into the pro government, pro law, bitch category


And you are one dumb fucker
why dont you go back to your boyfriend and whine about how your butt hurts
bro
you are the type of people that get these kids killed and cause these accidents
Seriously you need to take it nation wide. Split practice justice for all. So you will have your safe space on all tracks
4
brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/17/2019 7:42pm
Seriously you need to take it nation wide. Split practice justice for all. So you will have your safe space on all tracks
i just want to make it safer so we dont have dead kids and kids in hospitals because they made a mistake.
and most places only have one track. like in ga we have 3 or four places with more than one track. split the time everyone goes home in the same car they came in.
Why are you so against keeping kids alive and reducing the chances of them getting hurt or pushed off the track or getting run over?
1
1/17/2019 7:49pm
Seriously you need to take it nation wide. Split practice justice for all. So you will have your safe space on all tracks
brody wrote:
i just want to make it safer so we dont have dead kids and kids in hospitals because they made a mistake. and most places only...
i just want to make it safer so we dont have dead kids and kids in hospitals because they made a mistake.
and most places only have one track. like in ga we have 3 or four places with more than one track. split the time everyone goes home in the same car they came in.
Why are you so against keeping kids alive and reducing the chances of them getting hurt or pushed off the track or getting run over?
Sucks for you .. I'll stay in socal moto paradise with unsplit practice.
5
j211
Posts
3
Joined
1/18/2019
Location
St. Charles, MN, USA
1/18/2019 4:18am
This is a horrible tragic accident. However, before conclusions are made, please keep in mind the article is completely lopsided with a heart broken angry father behind it. As a mother myself, I can't imagine what this is like. But the article has false statements and missing most to all information related to the facts of that day and track operations. The father was informed, he did review waivers and signed them and on behalf of the minor, shown the track and operations and elected to pay and participate on clubs only public track.

Attorney after attorney dropped the suit over 2 years once facts were discovered, however one choose to seek financial settlement.

The facility does cater to that small group of faster riders, however public is not allowed to ride on those tracks. Club has 8 tracks on the property, with 1 available to the public. They have a staff member on site all days of operation living on property who is a fully certified EMT responder and certified in all areas.

Unfortunately, flaggers can not prevent a rider from landing on another rider when coming over a jump at the same time.

Bashing the tracks and promoters will not help the cause. If you have concerns, speak directly to the tracks. Track owners are willing to listen. If we all love the sport and want to see it grow, we need to support it and help make it better. Bashing on social media does not help that cause.
7
cody41
Posts
518
Joined
4/25/2013
Location
Miami, FL, USA
1/18/2019 5:28am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2019 5:31am
We have A/B class and C class at my local tracks, and there are always a handful of C riders who ride the A/B class, but they don’t even do the jumps. It becomes a safety hazard for everyone.
early
Posts
10017
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
1/18/2019 7:14am
j211 wrote:
This is a horrible tragic accident. However, before conclusions are made, please keep in mind the article is completely lopsided with a heart broken angry father...
This is a horrible tragic accident. However, before conclusions are made, please keep in mind the article is completely lopsided with a heart broken angry father behind it. As a mother myself, I can't imagine what this is like. But the article has false statements and missing most to all information related to the facts of that day and track operations. The father was informed, he did review waivers and signed them and on behalf of the minor, shown the track and operations and elected to pay and participate on clubs only public track.

Attorney after attorney dropped the suit over 2 years once facts were discovered, however one choose to seek financial settlement.

The facility does cater to that small group of faster riders, however public is not allowed to ride on those tracks. Club has 8 tracks on the property, with 1 available to the public. They have a staff member on site all days of operation living on property who is a fully certified EMT responder and certified in all areas.

Unfortunately, flaggers can not prevent a rider from landing on another rider when coming over a jump at the same time.

Bashing the tracks and promoters will not help the cause. If you have concerns, speak directly to the tracks. Track owners are willing to listen. If we all love the sport and want to see it grow, we need to support it and help make it better. Bashing on social media does not help that cause.
Disregarding the specifics of this case, if there is ever a suit before a jury where a kid on a mini is hurt by an adult on a full size bike that will probably be the thing the people of the jury focus on the most, the difference in age and equipment regardless of skill level of either rider. It's also easier to prevent this by separate sessions vs having all the flaggers in the world which may or may not help.
1/18/2019 7:33am
Ramrod wrote:
This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that...
This is the dumbest logic. So if families have more than 1 kid than can afford to lose 1? I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
Bry145 wrote:
My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids...
My reasoning is it would be more heartbreaking for a parent to lose a child if they only have one. If a parent has 5 kids and one is lost due to a tragedy, I believe it wouldn't be as bad.

If a resource is scarce it becomes more valuable. That's just basic economics.

Obviously Bry145 has absolutely no idea how valuable life is. What a dumbass. Acting like people have less value of life if they have siblings. How f#cked is your thinking dude?
2
brody
Posts
418
Joined
11/26/2018
Location
USA
1/18/2019 8:55am
Rosso391 wrote:
Obviously Bry145 has absolutely no idea how valuable life is. What a dumbass. Acting like people have less value of life if they have siblings. How...
Obviously Bry145 has absolutely no idea how valuable life is. What a dumbass. Acting like people have less value of life if they have siblings. How f#cked is your thinking dude?
him and coastlinecaot are so stupid its funny

there like oh ya lets just let theses kids die i dont care i am all about my self.
this is why they will die alone and thats a fact

1
1
dkg
Posts
1885
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
1/18/2019 9:14am
j211 wrote:
This is a horrible tragic accident. However, before conclusions are made, please keep in mind the article is completely lopsided with a heart broken angry father...
This is a horrible tragic accident. However, before conclusions are made, please keep in mind the article is completely lopsided with a heart broken angry father behind it. As a mother myself, I can't imagine what this is like. But the article has false statements and missing most to all information related to the facts of that day and track operations. The father was informed, he did review waivers and signed them and on behalf of the minor, shown the track and operations and elected to pay and participate on clubs only public track.

Attorney after attorney dropped the suit over 2 years once facts were discovered, however one choose to seek financial settlement.

The facility does cater to that small group of faster riders, however public is not allowed to ride on those tracks. Club has 8 tracks on the property, with 1 available to the public. They have a staff member on site all days of operation living on property who is a fully certified EMT responder and certified in all areas.

Unfortunately, flaggers can not prevent a rider from landing on another rider when coming over a jump at the same time.

Bashing the tracks and promoters will not help the cause. If you have concerns, speak directly to the tracks. Track owners are willing to listen. If we all love the sport and want to see it grow, we need to support it and help make it better. Bashing on social media does not help that cause.
Thank you for the clarification. As previously posted, I was sure we were missing large junks of the story.
3
dkg
Posts
1885
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
1/18/2019 9:21am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2019 9:22am
early wrote:
Disregarding the specifics of this case, if there is ever a suit before a jury where a kid on a mini is hurt by an adult...
Disregarding the specifics of this case, if there is ever a suit before a jury where a kid on a mini is hurt by an adult on a full size bike that will probably be the thing the people of the jury focus on the most, the difference in age and equipment regardless of skill level of either rider. It's also easier to prevent this by separate sessions vs having all the flaggers in the world which may or may not help.
Yep, a largely non-moto jury with an innate sympathy factor in favor of the minor. I don't see flaggers (or the lack thereof) having much impact in this situation. Separate sessions on the other hand would have been impactful.
1
Tracktor
Posts
2343
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA, USA
1/18/2019 10:06am
What's dense about what I stated. We have mini nights. We have slow times at the track. Use those opportunities. At no time did i compare...
What's dense about what I stated. We have mini nights. We have slow times at the track. Use those opportunities. At no time did i compare mass. Now if we see 60 40 mini riders vs big bikes that want to ride the main. Then maybe split up sessions. As of right now I don't see the turn out for it. Apparently socal tracks agree. Since we don't have it.

Also I'm only speaking for socal tracks . Not any other tracks. Yes we are lucky with many options. Your own track situations I can't and don't care to comment on.
Your main point has been no split practices because riders who can't jump/aren't fast enough shouldn't ride certain tracks? I was pointing out that plenty of 65/85 riders can jump pretty much anything out there(yes there are exceptions) but that doesn't make it a good idea to mix them in with larger bikes simply due to mass. Speed being somewhat irrelevant. Granted a beginner 65 rider is better than a 65 intermediate but still not what any reasonable person would consider safe. Which is why I was curious if you thought quads should be allowed on the track at the same time as bikes?

I agree it sucks to shut down a track for just a couple riders but understand that shutting it down for an ambulance or life flight is orders of magnitude worse. I am not narcissistic enough to get past that probably because I am a parent of riders and have seen them hauled off.

We have never made the winter exodus to SoCal like many other NW families for just this reason. I support any tracks right to run their business as they see fit and it's my decision as a parent & rider to patronize or not and accept the responsibility of that choice. That said, my personal opinion is chasing these short term gratifications comes at a long term cost..............
1
Yeti365
Posts
253
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Chula Vista, CA, USA
1/18/2019 10:13am
I may get lit up for this but imo, I really wish parents would step up and take more responsibility for their children. It's not even how young the kid is, but his seat time/experience on a track with obviously faster riders.

I've been to Glen Helen a few times and see toddlers on the main track riding xr50s with the faster guys. Why parents think this is a smart move is beyond me.

I fully understand and respect that parents want to see their kids happy in a great sport like this, but they need to use common sense along the way. Not every rider is going to care to their needs. Not saying this guy is, but I've had the angry soccer dad types come to me pissed because I would just go past their kid.

Get them experienced and teach heavy emphasis on track etiquette before sending them out on a big boy track.

But on the same hand, I can't figure why Club MX wouldn't have the adult sign a wavier.

Sounds this is a scenario where nobody wins.
PK97
Posts
266
Joined
7/28/2016
Location
Englewood, FL, USA
1/18/2019 10:39am
I believe the main premise of this post was not only to shed light on this tragic accident but also to offer ideas and solutions to help mitigate some of the risk to help prevent such incidence. Of course you cannot totally reduce all of the risk, but some of it can be mitigated. It is more then just wearing protective gear but also following some guidelines or rules.

There have been some good suggestions put forward and some comments that are not part of any solution. What also rubs people the wrong way is when you say "at my track", unless your daddy owns it, it is for everyone wanting to ride there. The idea should be for everyone to enjoy and have fun as safely as possible. For the "Fast Guys" complaining about wait time during split practice sessions, I don't think they are handing out factory rides during practice days so let everyone have time on the track and have fun and learn.

Segregating experience levels and bike sizes is the most sensible approach. Even if your MX Park has multiple tracks, mixing minis with larger bikes on the "main" track is a bad idea no matter how fast the mini riders are. As someone else alluded to already you have to consider a basic physics equation of Force=Mass x Acceleration (F=MA).

Riders and parents should band together and push their ideas to the track owners and the AMA to make the sport as safe as possible. By giving sound ideas and explaining the casual effects of not doing something for risk mitigation is the only way to improve this.

1
j211
Posts
3
Joined
1/18/2019
Location
St. Charles, MN, USA
1/18/2019 10:45am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2019 11:19am
Yeti365 wrote:
I may get lit up for this but imo, I really wish parents would step up and take more responsibility for their children. It's not even...
I may get lit up for this but imo, I really wish parents would step up and take more responsibility for their children. It's not even how young the kid is, but his seat time/experience on a track with obviously faster riders.

I've been to Glen Helen a few times and see toddlers on the main track riding xr50s with the faster guys. Why parents think this is a smart move is beyond me.

I fully understand and respect that parents want to see their kids happy in a great sport like this, but they need to use common sense along the way. Not every rider is going to care to their needs. Not saying this guy is, but I've had the angry soccer dad types come to me pissed because I would just go past their kid.

Get them experienced and teach heavy emphasis on track etiquette before sending them out on a big boy track.

But on the same hand, I can't figure why Club MX wouldn't have the adult sign a wavier.

Sounds this is a scenario where nobody wins.
dkg
Posts
1885
Joined
9/12/2010
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
1/18/2019 11:01am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2019 11:02am
j211

Seeing you only have 2 posts and are from the Clubmx area, I am assuming that there is a good chance that you have some relationship to the facility and came on to just add some of the lacking information. Like others have commented, many of the posts here were directed at trying to make the sport in general safer and not really directed at the facility. It is just that this discussion started in context of the facility. After this litigation is all concluded, I'd be really interested in your thoughts regarding track safety and some of the suggestions raised in this thread. For heavens sake don't do it now in this forum, if you are associated with the track it could possibly be used in the trial.
yz133rider
Posts
5028
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
1/18/2019 11:03am
Good luck talking about safety in mx....all the bad asses get their egos threatened at the hint of safety improvements and discussions.
3
Hammer 663s
Posts
3108
Joined
6/2/2016
Location
Forest Grove, OR, USA
1/18/2019 11:12am
I don't let my 12 year old go out with big bikes. Period. He's an 85 Int rider and is faster than plenty of adults, but like others have said, it's a matter of mass. There's been enough kids hurt bad/killed over the years when they get hit by a big bike. Mine ain't gonna be one of them.

Tracks own some responsibility to provide safe splits and flaggers. Parents own some to have common sense and make decisions in their child's best interest.

When the boy is riding too, we don't go to tracks that don't split practices. I'll take my business to those that do.

Hammer 663s
psg119
Posts
634
Joined
6/21/2018
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
1/18/2019 11:45am
This is one of the saddest parts of the sport. I feel for the father and his family. At the same time though I think do think he is just really angry and trying to seek justice where justice isn't meant to be served. As J211 stated the article is misinforming people (which I, like a lot of you I'm sure, assumed from some of the stuff it was saying). In SoCal it is impossible to get into the tracks property without signing the waiver. Both adult and child. And I find it hard to believe that a track running as a business would not cover their a$$, but that is not impossible I suppose.

And for the solution of creating sessions for the different skilled riders, I don't think that would be as perfect in reality as it does as an idea. It would be nearly impossible to regulate what rider should go in what session. Unless they did it how we did with the track days for road racing, each rider has to rent or own their own transponder and each session would be based on what lap times you were able to perform. They'd have to make rules for each group as well like we did. Beginner- no passing and no jumping (since it is moto) Novice- Just regulated by lap time, must be able to jump all jumps? Expert/Pro- All is fair?. Then that would raise another concern, a lot of SoCal tracks have at least three tracks: 1-Minis 2-Vet 3-Main. Would they have to create sessions for each track? Just the main? Would they have to split of certain days by certain skill levels? As much as you can try to regulate it there will still be instances of people getting landed on, crashing hard, etc. Even expert/pro have to roll jumps from mistakes in the previous corners. There were still unfortunate deaths at our track days more than anyone would like. I had my own worst crash at a track day just screwing around with my buddy. Life flighted and in the hospital for three weeks, then a year off racing. He was pro and I was supposed to go pro the next month. My point is accidents happen.

I don't see these regulations being suggested doing anything but hurting the moto industry. Riders will have less track time than they want at what I assume would be a much higher cost with the track having to provide a ton of more staff and transponders among other overhead. And you can bet the accidents will still happen. I saw many more beginners hauled off from their own mistakes than being landed on when I used to be at the track all the time. To me, our best bet is for parents and riders to do extensive research on the sport they are getting into and find the appropriate facility with the appropriate track for their honest to God skill level. I can't say I know what this father is feeling but I have lost friends, as many of us have in this sport, and seen how it affects their families. If I am being honest, this feels more like a vendetta than him actually caring about making moto more safe. There a lot of real ways he can try to help rather than trying hurt what hurt him.

I'm sure there is much more to the story but this is based just on the article and what was said on here. And I am in no way trying to attack the father and the family, just joining in on the discussion and trying to speak realistically rather than emotionally. Nobody ever wants to see this happen to any child. My condolences to the family. Godspeed.
crowe176
Posts
6613
Joined
9/8/2006
Location
Spring Lake, MI, USA
1/18/2019 1:22pm
Every track I've ever ridden, including multiple national tracks split practice when it gets busy. Most local (local meaning within 2 hours of eachother) tracks are only open weekends, and you get hundreds of riders, requiring it to be split. You can't go to redbud on a practice day and have a free for all. It's so busy, they have to split into multiple A, B or C classes. It's chaos just getting to the gate..

SoCal is a world all it's own and to compare it to 99 percent of the other tracks around the country just doesn't work. I wish I could have so many tracks that they compete to get my business lol. But, I'll take my 20 minute sessions happily to ride the tracks and dirt I get to ride and not feel like I'm going to watch a child get lifeflighted off the property.

.
1
burnside
Posts
4095
Joined
6/17/2009
Location
London, USA
1/18/2019 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2019 1:58pm
Coming from the UK I must say I'm quite confused reading some of these comments.

Most practice tracks days are run in groups:

Youth
Intermediate
Advance

Works out fine and adds a bit of intensity to your 20 min session as you wait for it patiently and line up with the other dudes anticipating for your turn. Seems like common sense to me.

Cannot fathom how anyone thinks its a good idea for grown ass men on 450s to share the track with kids on 60s.



4
psg119
Posts
634
Joined
6/21/2018
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
1/18/2019 2:16pm
crowe176 wrote:
Every track I've ever ridden, including multiple national tracks split practice when it gets busy. Most local (local meaning within 2 hours of eachother) tracks are...
Every track I've ever ridden, including multiple national tracks split practice when it gets busy. Most local (local meaning within 2 hours of eachother) tracks are only open weekends, and you get hundreds of riders, requiring it to be split. You can't go to redbud on a practice day and have a free for all. It's so busy, they have to split into multiple A, B or C classes. It's chaos just getting to the gate..

SoCal is a world all it's own and to compare it to 99 percent of the other tracks around the country just doesn't work. I wish I could have so many tracks that they compete to get my business lol. But, I'll take my 20 minute sessions happily to ride the tracks and dirt I get to ride and not feel like I'm going to watch a child get lifeflighted off the property.

.
I hear ya, nobody want to see that. And yeah I guess being from here that’s all I’m used to. I didn’t even consider that a lot facilities might be limited to one track. I did forget to mention that a few places out here do have a designated night for only minis. Is that the case where you’re at as well? How do the tracks and riders appoint themselves to A,B, or C? Is it pretty well enforced if someone is in the wrong group?

Post a reply to: Club MX being sued, could affect other tracks?

The Latest