Tickle is pissed

ctbale
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1/3/2019 2:03am
You lose your job? Just like he lost his job. He got caught, don't like it? Don't fail drug test it is that simple.
WoodsRacer wrote:
Yes he lost his job, that part is straight forward and I think all get it. What is wrong here is they are also keeping him...
Yes he lost his job, that part is straight forward and I think all get it.

What is wrong here is they are also keeping him from working. Can not run one off races, other series, or even know when he can complete in the US again. So they are keeping him from making a living, that is seriously wrong.
So they are keeping him from getting a job in the industry? Everyone acts like he wins races, and is in the hunt for championships. This...
So they are keeping him from getting a job in the industry? Everyone acts like he wins races, and is in the hunt for championships. This boat has sailed, he needs to take a hint and move on. My point is, this is just like crying that you lost your job for smoking pot knowing you're getting drug tested. No difference.
Idiot
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GangGreen
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1/3/2019 6:50am
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


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Premix
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1/3/2019 7:07am
GangGreen wrote:
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge...
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd party test the supplements you’re injesting is completely asinine. The quality control at the supplement companies has been proven to be questionable at best.

The only way an athlete can insure that what they are taking won’t get them into trouble is to have it 3rd party tested. Multiple places that will do this. Would also “demonstrate the highest duty of care”, and go hand in hand with the new WADA ruling.
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1/3/2019 7:27am
Haven’t read a single post, only the thread name.

So Tickle is pissed, big deal, he should have known what he was putting in his body. Since he didn’t, he is paying the consequences, it’s as simple as that.
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The Shop

731chopper
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1/3/2019 7:42am
UpTiTe wrote:
Haven’t read a single post, only the thread name. So Tickle is pissed, big deal, he should have known what he was putting in his body...
Haven’t read a single post, only the thread name.

So Tickle is pissed, big deal, he should have known what he was putting in his body. Since he didn’t, he is paying the consequences, it’s as simple as that.
Clearly you didn’t read because that’s not what the outrage is about. Do you work for the FIM?
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drt410
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1/3/2019 8:03am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 8:04am
GangGreen wrote:
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge...
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


Premix wrote:
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd...
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd party test the supplements you’re injesting is completely asinine. The quality control at the supplement companies has been proven to be questionable at best.

The only way an athlete can insure that what they are taking won’t get them into trouble is to have it 3rd party tested. Multiple places that will do this. Would also “demonstrate the highest duty of care”, and go hand in hand with the new WADA ruling.
3rd party testing does nothing. Thats the “tainted” part. Say you want to use x brands suppliments. You get them tested and its all good. Then one batch gets cross contaminated with whatever banned suppliment and you think your good cuz you got them tested, but this batch is tainted. Now you fail and you try to find out how so you buy more of their stuff n get it tested but it was only that batch that was tainted so this test comes back good. Your SOL and youll never know what happened. This does happen. Your playing with fire every time you take suppliments.
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kb228
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1/3/2019 8:06am
GangGreen wrote:
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge...
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


Premix wrote:
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd...
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd party test the supplements you’re injesting is completely asinine. The quality control at the supplement companies has been proven to be questionable at best.

The only way an athlete can insure that what they are taking won’t get them into trouble is to have it 3rd party tested. Multiple places that will do this. Would also “demonstrate the highest duty of care”, and go hand in hand with the new WADA ruling.
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it.

Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement mfgs. They know big time athletes are taking 1/2 their supp lineup.
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MPJC
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Fantasy
1/3/2019 8:08am
GangGreen wrote:
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge...
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


Premix wrote:
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd...
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd party test the supplements you’re injesting is completely asinine. The quality control at the supplement companies has been proven to be questionable at best.

The only way an athlete can insure that what they are taking won’t get them into trouble is to have it 3rd party tested. Multiple places that will do this. Would also “demonstrate the highest duty of care”, and go hand in hand with the new WADA ruling.
drt410 wrote:
3rd party testing does nothing. Thats the “tainted” part. Say you want to use x brands suppliments. You get them tested and its all good. Then...
3rd party testing does nothing. Thats the “tainted” part. Say you want to use x brands suppliments. You get them tested and its all good. Then one batch gets cross contaminated with whatever banned suppliment and you think your good cuz you got them tested, but this batch is tainted. Now you fail and you try to find out how so you buy more of their stuff n get it tested but it was only that batch that was tainted so this test comes back good. Your SOL and youll never know what happened. This does happen. Your playing with fire every time you take suppliments.
The only recourse is to keep samples of all the supplements you use (from each individual container) so that they can all be tested if you do test positive and want to prove that it's from a tainted supplement. If you don't have them to test, then you are SOL. But that's complicated and, if many of the posters on this thread are to be believed, this issue is simple. I guess if a person is simple, then everything is bound to seem simple.
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Premix
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1/3/2019 8:10am
drt410 wrote:
3rd party testing does nothing. Thats the “tainted” part. Say you want to use x brands suppliments. You get them tested and its all good. Then...
3rd party testing does nothing. Thats the “tainted” part. Say you want to use x brands suppliments. You get them tested and its all good. Then one batch gets cross contaminated with whatever banned suppliment and you think your good cuz you got them tested, but this batch is tainted. Now you fail and you try to find out how so you buy more of their stuff n get it tested but it was only that batch that was tainted so this test comes back good. Your SOL and youll never know what happened. This does happen. Your playing with fire every time you take suppliments.
No legitiamate professional athlete is buying supplements week to week. Buy in bulk, whole years supply, and have each tested. That’s the only way to eliminate the possibility of something like the situation you mentioned. At the level they are at, no excuse not to.
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RydeRed
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1/3/2019 8:14am
GangGreen wrote:
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge...
Typical AMA Pro Racing “SHIT SHOW”. They pretend to have no oversight, and hold nobody’s feet to the fire. They know they also made a huge mistake permitting “Double-Displacement” and STILL do nothing to reduce the four-stroke displacement limits. It’s estimated that almost 10% of doping cases are caused by tainted dietary supplements, this could be handled so much better.

Tainted Supplement

By all accounts, swimmer Jessica Hardy did everything she was supposed to leading up to her competing in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. She was projected to be a gold medal contender in her events. In an effort to gain strength and muscle mass, she took a dietary supplement, Advocare Arginine Extreme. First, she had researched the product, consulted with a nutritionist and team psychologist, and contacted the company about its safety and purity. Before the Games, Ms Hardy failed a drug test because her sample contained clenbuterol, a beta agonist with anabolic properties that is on the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)/World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) prohibited lists. Despite her conscientiousness, she was banned from the Olympic Games and served a 1-year suspension. This suspension was a reduced penalty because the Court of Arbitration for Sport found that she had exercised sufficient diligence in her investigation of the supplement.


Premix wrote:
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd...
Regardless of whether it’s professional motorcycle racing or Olympic swimming, in today’s age of competition, putting your career on the line without having an independent 3rd party test the supplements you’re injesting is completely asinine. The quality control at the supplement companies has been proven to be questionable at best.

The only way an athlete can insure that what they are taking won’t get them into trouble is to have it 3rd party tested. Multiple places that will do this. Would also “demonstrate the highest duty of care”, and go hand in hand with the new WADA ruling.
She was sued by Advocare. She had zero proof or zero containers with product that was tainted.

If you look at the supplement protocol most trainers put people on, those aren't coming from a sponsored product.
Lastly, Arginine and Clebuterol would never be manufactured in the same facility. But people want to blame someone else.

May 5, 2009 – On May 4, 2009, with testing conducted by two independent laboratories, both of which found no evidence that clenbuterol was present in the AdvoCare supplements consumed by Ms. Hardy. Every single raw material used in the specific lots consumed by Ms. Hardy also tested negative (Not Detected) for Clenbuterol.

NSF International, an independent laboratory licensed to test for controlled substances, certified these test results. The results were also certified by HFL Sports Science, a leader in nutritional supplement testing with a WADA-experienced laboratory that adheres to ISO 17025 standards for sports supplements and has analyzed more samples for banned substances than any other lab in the world.
Premix
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1/3/2019 8:15am
kb228 wrote:
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it. Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement...
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it.

Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement mfgs. They know big time athletes are taking 1/2 their supp lineup.
Horseshit. The stuff these guys are taking you can’t buy off bodybuilding.com. You honestly believe that a supplement manufacturer can account for potential airborne contamination and mishandling during packaging for each individual product? It’s the riders responsibility to know what’s going into their system. End of story. Only way to protect themselves is to have a 3rd party independent lab test their supply for the season.
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RydeRed
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1/3/2019 8:18am
Yah especially Harry Backmon and jeffro503 mostly who trolled the shit out of the guy and got trolled themselves.
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Sierra Ranger
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1/3/2019 8:32am
When did racing dirt bikes get so complicated?
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kb228
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1/3/2019 8:41am
kb228 wrote:
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it. Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement...
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it.

Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement mfgs. They know big time athletes are taking 1/2 their supp lineup.
Premix wrote:
Horseshit. The stuff these guys are taking you can’t buy off bodybuilding.com. You honestly believe that a supplement manufacturer can account for potential airborne contamination and...
Horseshit. The stuff these guys are taking you can’t buy off bodybuilding.com. You honestly believe that a supplement manufacturer can account for potential airborne contamination and mishandling during packaging for each individual product? It’s the riders responsibility to know what’s going into their system. End of story. Only way to protect themselves is to have a 3rd party independent lab test their supply for the season.
Yes. BPI literally sends samples right off the floor to be tested to make sure whats on the label is in the bottle.

If guys want to be extra sure, theyll go that route.

Regardless, this post isnt about whether he was right or wrong or should have known. Its about the FIM putting him on the back burner while hes waiting to hear when he can go back to work.
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mxb2
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Bowie, MD, USA
1/3/2019 8:48am
kb228 wrote:
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it. Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement...
BPI supplements do 3rd party quality control testing. None of the other guys do it.

Having every new bottle tested isnt brocs responsibility. Its the supplement mfgs. They know big time athletes are taking 1/2 their supp lineup.
Premix wrote:
Horseshit. The stuff these guys are taking you can’t buy off bodybuilding.com. You honestly believe that a supplement manufacturer can account for potential airborne contamination and...
Horseshit. The stuff these guys are taking you can’t buy off bodybuilding.com. You honestly believe that a supplement manufacturer can account for potential airborne contamination and mishandling during packaging for each individual product? It’s the riders responsibility to know what’s going into their system. End of story. Only way to protect themselves is to have a 3rd party independent lab test their supply for the season.
kb228 wrote:
Yes. BPI literally sends samples right off the floor to be tested to make sure whats on the label is in the bottle. If guys want...
Yes. BPI literally sends samples right off the floor to be tested to make sure whats on the label is in the bottle.

If guys want to be extra sure, theyll go that route.

Regardless, this post isnt about whether he was right or wrong or should have known. Its about the FIM putting him on the back burner while hes waiting to hear when he can go back to work.
Well.he should have learned from the clason ,stewart stuff. If i am goin to do something stupid i would look at the penalty short or long. No excuses. If he didnt research. Thats on him. Guess some guys on here care more than tickle did. Todays society blame everybody else.
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PTshox
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1/3/2019 9:17am
I've said it before.. DUMP the FIM sectioning. Manage the US series entirely in the US by US based folks. And never allow a 9 months to pass before letting someone know what kind of punishment they will/could get. It shouldn't take more then a few days... 1 week tops.

FIRE THE FIM. We don't need them here in the USA.
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dkg
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1/3/2019 9:31am
mikec265 wrote:
Who are the individuals who actually have the power to get rid of WADA, and/or rid of FIM? Looking for an answer more intelligent than "The...
Who are the individuals who actually have the power to get rid of WADA, and/or rid of FIM?

Looking for an answer more intelligent than "The riders starting a union".
Unfortunately, FELD is probably the only entity that could do so. In that process they would have to get rid of the AMA and FIM. FIM is a signatory to the WADA code. In so doing they became bound by it. This doesn't mean that WADA is the culprit. Rather, it is the FIM that is charged with handling things (at least up to the current point and giving a hearing, punishment, etc.). FIM is just dropping the ball. As between the AMA and FIM, you can find a pretty good discussion here: https://www.motosport.com/blog/should-the-ama-dump-its-relationship-wit…
cody41
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1/3/2019 9:39am
This thread is funny. A bunch of cry babies with hurt feelings, and only a small percentage of people are logical and realize he failed a drug test. It is really that simple and people try twisting and turning it anyway they can to prove nothing. I can only imagine if this happened to Tomac or Roczen, some of you would be mentally damaged.
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dkg
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1/3/2019 10:08am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2019 10:18am
Why because everyone is butt hurt over a guy who has made millions in his life, and failed a drug test.. I wish I were as...
Why because everyone is butt hurt over a guy who has made millions in his life, and failed a drug test.. I wish I were as smart as the people on here.
Ramrod wrote:
Dude, the point is that it is not reasonable that he has had no communication with WADA regarding his failed test. He accepts that he failed...
Dude, the point is that it is not reasonable that he has had no communication with WADA regarding his failed test.

He accepts that he failed his test but doesn't even know the punishment and terms yet, that is NOT reasonable.

He should have already completed his time off and being ready waiting for a fill in ride right now or pitting with Wilson.
GrapeApe wrote:
Standard penalty is 2 years, 4 years if it was intentional. I can understand why people would think 9 months is too long to go without...
Standard penalty is 2 years, 4 years if it was intentional. I can understand why people would think 9 months is too long to go without a hearing, but I also understand their lack of urgency.

Not an exact parallel, but if you commit a crime it usually takes longer than 9 months to get to trial and receive your sentence.
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things moving. This entire situation is not Rocket Science particularly from the point of view of the FIM. They have a dirty test. It then falls on Tickle to explain it, if he can. Tickle says he wants a hearing to do so. How can it take so long to simply set a hearing? In Tickle's case the difference between 2 years and 4 years is very significant probably career ending or career changing. Depending on mitigating circumstances, it is possible for the penalty to be less than the usual 2/4 years. The biggest difficulty I have with your logic is that the potential length of penalty should never dictate fundamental fairness or due process. If this were the case why have a capital murder trial at all? The potential penalty generally ranges in the area of 20 years to life.

You are generally correct in that criminal trials can take 9 months or longer, however, this is also generally because it is the DEFENDANT (i.e. Tickle) not the prosecution (i.e. FIM) that extends the time. At least in the USA, there are speedy trial rights. By way of example many jurisdictions are required to get it done in 60 days unless the defendant extends the time. One of the biggest complaints against most fascist governments is the lack of speedy trials or in some cases a trial at all.

Perhaps a more relevant question: "Is the FIM a fascist organization?"

Reading the WADA code, the standard is a reasonable time. The FIM is bound by this standard. I don't agree that 9 months of inaction is reasonable.
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kb228
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1/3/2019 10:09am
cody41 wrote:
This thread is funny. A bunch of cry babies with hurt feelings, and only a small percentage of people are logical and realize he failed a...
This thread is funny. A bunch of cry babies with hurt feelings, and only a small percentage of people are logical and realize he failed a drug test. It is really that simple and people try twisting and turning it anyway they can to prove nothing. I can only imagine if this happened to Tomac or Roczen, some of you would be mentally damaged.
This thread is funny. Its full of people like you who are missing the point entirely.
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MPJC
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Fantasy
1/3/2019 10:20am
dkg wrote:
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things...
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things moving. This entire situation is not Rocket Science particularly from the point of view of the FIM. They have a dirty test. It then falls on Tickle to explain it, if he can. Tickle says he wants a hearing to do so. How can it take so long to simply set a hearing? In Tickle's case the difference between 2 years and 4 years is very significant probably career ending or career changing. Depending on mitigating circumstances, it is possible for the penalty to be less than the usual 2/4 years. The biggest difficulty I have with your logic is that the potential length of penalty should never dictate fundamental fairness or due process. If this were the case why have a capital murder trial at all? The potential penalty generally ranges in the area of 20 years to life.

You are generally correct in that criminal trials can take 9 months or longer, however, this is also generally because it is the DEFENDANT (i.e. Tickle) not the prosecution (i.e. FIM) that extends the time. At least in the USA, there are speedy trial rights. By way of example many jurisdictions are required to get it done in 60 days unless the defendant extends the time. One of the biggest complaints against most fascist governments is the lack of speedy trials or in some cases a trial at all.

Perhaps a more relevant question: "Is the FIM a fascist organization?"

Reading the WADA code, the standard is a reasonable time. The FIM is bound by this standard. I don't agree that 9 months of inaction is reasonable.
Very well put. "Fascist" may be an overstatement, but if they can't or won't resolve cases within a reasonable time frame and with reasonable communication to the accused, then something is wrong and they may not be the right organization for the job.
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GrapeApe
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1/3/2019 11:10am
dkg wrote:
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things...
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things moving. This entire situation is not Rocket Science particularly from the point of view of the FIM. They have a dirty test. It then falls on Tickle to explain it, if he can. Tickle says he wants a hearing to do so. How can it take so long to simply set a hearing? In Tickle's case the difference between 2 years and 4 years is very significant probably career ending or career changing. Depending on mitigating circumstances, it is possible for the penalty to be less than the usual 2/4 years. The biggest difficulty I have with your logic is that the potential length of penalty should never dictate fundamental fairness or due process. If this were the case why have a capital murder trial at all? The potential penalty generally ranges in the area of 20 years to life.

You are generally correct in that criminal trials can take 9 months or longer, however, this is also generally because it is the DEFENDANT (i.e. Tickle) not the prosecution (i.e. FIM) that extends the time. At least in the USA, there are speedy trial rights. By way of example many jurisdictions are required to get it done in 60 days unless the defendant extends the time. One of the biggest complaints against most fascist governments is the lack of speedy trials or in some cases a trial at all.

Perhaps a more relevant question: "Is the FIM a fascist organization?"

Reading the WADA code, the standard is a reasonable time. The FIM is bound by this standard. I don't agree that 9 months of inaction is reasonable.
Without knowing anything going on behind the scenes, how can you say the delay to this point is reasonable or unreasonable? You have no information upon which to reach a definitive conclusion, other than a social media post from Brock Tickle saying the FIM and WADA are conspiring to take away his livelihood. I'm pretty certain WADA has no clue who Brock Tickle is and doesn't really care, and certainly isn't conspiring with FIM to take away his livelihood. But, like you, I have no information to back that up so I can't say it definitively.

What Tickle is going through is not out of the ordinary for WADA, it's just what you have to deal with when you ingest a banned substance and get caught. If I were Tickle I would be frustrated and impatient as well, and would want my case treated with the highest level of urgency. But to WADA, his case is just a number in a very long line of other case numbers that will eventually reach a final hearing. And then, hopefully, he will get the good news that his suspension is 2 years instead of 4 years.
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Sierra Ranger
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1/3/2019 11:13am
There is some pretty legalistic language in Tickle's post that flags a lawsuit, which I wish he would file.
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DTHA70
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1/3/2019 11:14am
dedi684 wrote:
Employer drug testing is becoming a thing of the past in free states.
The Irony of you posting anything about "free" states in one of the most Orwelian Communist utopias in the union..........
GrapeApe
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1/3/2019 11:22am
There is some pretty legalistic language in Tickle's post that flags a lawsuit, which I wish he would file.
He wouldn't be the first to blow his life savings on legal fees fighting a hopeless battle.
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MPJC
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1/3/2019 11:30am
dkg wrote:
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things...
Generally agree with you on the penalties, but, don't understand the lack of urgency. Fundamental fairness ought to at least require some diligence in getting things moving. This entire situation is not Rocket Science particularly from the point of view of the FIM. They have a dirty test. It then falls on Tickle to explain it, if he can. Tickle says he wants a hearing to do so. How can it take so long to simply set a hearing? In Tickle's case the difference between 2 years and 4 years is very significant probably career ending or career changing. Depending on mitigating circumstances, it is possible for the penalty to be less than the usual 2/4 years. The biggest difficulty I have with your logic is that the potential length of penalty should never dictate fundamental fairness or due process. If this were the case why have a capital murder trial at all? The potential penalty generally ranges in the area of 20 years to life.

You are generally correct in that criminal trials can take 9 months or longer, however, this is also generally because it is the DEFENDANT (i.e. Tickle) not the prosecution (i.e. FIM) that extends the time. At least in the USA, there are speedy trial rights. By way of example many jurisdictions are required to get it done in 60 days unless the defendant extends the time. One of the biggest complaints against most fascist governments is the lack of speedy trials or in some cases a trial at all.

Perhaps a more relevant question: "Is the FIM a fascist organization?"

Reading the WADA code, the standard is a reasonable time. The FIM is bound by this standard. I don't agree that 9 months of inaction is reasonable.
GrapeApe wrote:
Without knowing anything going on behind the scenes, how can you say the delay to this point is reasonable or unreasonable? You have no information upon...
Without knowing anything going on behind the scenes, how can you say the delay to this point is reasonable or unreasonable? You have no information upon which to reach a definitive conclusion, other than a social media post from Brock Tickle saying the FIM and WADA are conspiring to take away his livelihood. I'm pretty certain WADA has no clue who Brock Tickle is and doesn't really care, and certainly isn't conspiring with FIM to take away his livelihood. But, like you, I have no information to back that up so I can't say it definitively.

What Tickle is going through is not out of the ordinary for WADA, it's just what you have to deal with when you ingest a banned substance and get caught. If I were Tickle I would be frustrated and impatient as well, and would want my case treated with the highest level of urgency. But to WADA, his case is just a number in a very long line of other case numbers that will eventually reach a final hearing. And then, hopefully, he will get the good news that his suspension is 2 years instead of 4 years.
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just a number in a very long line. Should anyone actually be fine with that? It conforms to a reasonable conception of justice? It may be the way it is, but that says nothing about the way it ought to be.
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1/3/2019 11:36am
There is some pretty legalistic language in Tickle's post that flags a lawsuit, which I wish he would file.
If he was going to sue the first thing your legal counsel tells you is Don't say anything to anyone and dont post anything or keep your mouth shut and let us handle it. If Broc was going to sue he wouldn't be spouting off in the media, He may be trying to gain support through public opinion but it wont matter.
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GrapeApe
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1/3/2019 11:39am
MPJC wrote:
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just...
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just a number in a very long line. Should anyone actually be fine with that? It conforms to a reasonable conception of justice? It may be the way it is, but that says nothing about the way it ought to be.
Every case number in that very long list of case numbers represents a man or woman whose livelihood is at stake, and each think they are more important and deserve more attention than the others.
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1/3/2019 11:41am
MPJC wrote:
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just...
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just a number in a very long line. Should anyone actually be fine with that? It conforms to a reasonable conception of justice? It may be the way it is, but that says nothing about the way it ought to be.
The way it ought to be is Broc should have followed the rules and not taken a banned substance, but he did and he got caught and now he's paying the price. He has no one to blame but himself. Blush
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MPJC
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1/3/2019 11:49am
MPJC wrote:
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just...
If they're too high, mighty, and important to worry about little old Brock Tickle then fuck them. A man's livelihood is at stake, but he's just a number in a very long line. Should anyone actually be fine with that? It conforms to a reasonable conception of justice? It may be the way it is, but that says nothing about the way it ought to be.
lostboy819 wrote:
The way it ought to be is Broc should have followed the rules and not taken a banned substance, but he did and he got caught...
The way it ought to be is Broc should have followed the rules and not taken a banned substance, but he did and he got caught and now he's paying the price. He has no one to blame but himself. Blush
When you're discussing fairness or lack thereof of the processes for handling punishment for someone who has been caught doing something wrong (that he was caught doing something wrong is not in dispute) and your interlocutor resorts to asserting that the accused shouldn't have committed that wrong in the first place (no shit!), then you know you are in a pointless discussion with someone not able to distinguish what is relevant from what is not.
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