Will the big 4 ever make a 350?

Anonymous (not verified)
2/26/2018 9:22pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2026 6:11pm
Love my 350 and want a new husky 19. I hope they dont screw up the powerband and try to make it some gay low end engine. I don't want to shift.
SPYGUY
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2/26/2018 9:29pm
gsxr6 wrote:
It revs sooooooo slow. Wasn't impressed with the 15 sxf350 I rode. Yea it revved, but talk about flat. I too loved my 450s better after.
I'd suggest riding the 2016+ before writing them off. Way better than the previous generation.
JackLHyde
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2/26/2018 10:00pm
I don't see that happening anytime soon. These 450 engines are oftentimes shared throughout a wider product range in the powersports area.

Nevertheless, my next bike will most likely be a 350. I wait now to see what the 2019 models will be like. If it's not worth the extra money to me, I get a used one and add a rekluse.
The 250 is too exhausting to me to keep it on speed, the 450 is too much when I just ride every other week.
yz133rider
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2/26/2018 10:00pm
gsxr6 wrote:
It revs sooooooo slow. Wasn't impressed with the 15 sxf350 I rode. Yea it revved, but talk about flat. I too loved my 450s better after.
SPYGUY wrote:
I'd suggest riding the 2016+ before writing them off. Way better than the previous generation.
Yeah, my 17 is absolutely ferocious from mid to top. Less shifting than a kawi 450 on the same tracks because of the broader longer pulling top end. Better lap times and can spin 2x as many laps as on the kawi.

The Shop

2/26/2018 10:25pm
I would be first in line for a Yamaha 350
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I’d be right behind you! I would love a yz350
Racerxx wrote:
I hope you guys are talking about a YZ 350 two stroke I'd put down a deposit today
I’d put down a deposit on a 350 2 stroke and 4 stroke. You can never have enough bikes!
2/26/2018 10:39pm
Support the brands that fill your needs, I don't understands comments like "if big 4 made a 350 ill buy it today".

They're already available just a different color.
2
2/26/2018 10:40pm
MX915 wrote:
I think the Japanese manufacturers believe you should be thanking them for taking time out of their schedule of building cars, trains, and pianos to build...
I think the Japanese manufacturers believe you should be thanking them for taking time out of their schedule of building cars, trains, and pianos to build you a dirtbike that is probably .1% of their overall revenue.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Sad
Exactly right.
yz133rider
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2/26/2018 11:00pm
Support the brands that fill your needs, I don't understands comments like "if big 4 made a 350 ill buy it today". They're already available just...
Support the brands that fill your needs, I don't understands comments like "if big 4 made a 350 ill buy it today".

They're already available just a different color.
Agreed. Husky and ktm are killing it and deserve the support / sales.

Unlike yamaha selling a 2005 yz250 for $7400 and a 2005 yz125 for $6200 completely ridiculous.
aees
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2/26/2018 11:51pm
I'm 58 and carrying many injuries, currently riding a modded 2011 RMZ450, I was thinking the big bike was too much for me; I rode a...
I'm 58 and carrying many injuries, currently riding a modded 2011 RMZ450, I was thinking the big bike was too much for me; I rode a mates 2013 KTM350 the other day, maybe it needed a pipe or something, I was a little disappointed in the performance; no peak like a 250, just broad gutless power, no peaks or troughs. Got back on my 450 and loved it more.

If the Japs build one, I wonder if a peaky 250 type power is the go or make tractor type power? Personally I'm thinking that a 'de-stroke' of a 450 might work? The longer the stroke, the larger the flywheels, hence more gyroscopic mass to change directions. This is so noticeable when comparing a 600 to a 1000 on the roadrace track, bikes weigh basically the same but a 600 can change direction so much easier at speed; it's all physics.
The 350 has exactly the same power curve as a 250, but you need to hold it long up in the RPM. This is difficult, because a 250 or 125 does not do much to throw you back in the saddle, while the 350 makes you wonder why you ever bought it. Very difficult on anything else than sand to ride a 350 like a 250 with overrev.

Basically You did not hold it wide open long enough. If you did you would have noticed the massive horse kick in your face when it runs away.

Im a pretty fast rider, i race in lower RPMs. I thought the same, until i discovered that if i hold it wide open for 2-3sec i could barely hold on to it when it hit.
2/27/2018 2:23am
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?

Tuna
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2/27/2018 3:26am
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4? EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and...
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4?

EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and currently makes a dual injector model that is a step up in tech from what KTM is running, and offers a 390 and a 430 and a 480. They may have lights, but they don't have to apologize for their performance.

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2018/2018-beta-350rr-race-e…


Pirate421 wrote:
There’s a myriad of reasons I left the beta and Sherco out of this original thread. But the main being that I wanted to bring up...
There’s a myriad of reasons I left the beta and Sherco out of this original thread. But the main being that I wanted to bring up what I read in the magazine which was related to the 350sxf motocross model which beta do not make. I know members historically like to debate the beta is a capable mx machine but please for the sake of this thread, it does not apply.

Now for off-road the beta is a viable option but they are more of the niche within a niche. Their us off-road presence I feel has started to slip after losing a few teams and I don’t see them as being anywhere near half the level as the other brands mentioned.

I am mostly concerned with mx models here and the now big 6, two of which make 350s, which leaves the big 4 who do not.
Beta a capable MX machine? Not without a fair amount of work. Fork swap, motor work, etc.
They are Enduro bikes plain and simple. Trying to hustle those Sachs OC forks on a track would put you in the hospital.
Tuna
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2/27/2018 3:28am
I'm 58 and carrying many injuries, currently riding a modded 2011 RMZ450, I was thinking the big bike was too much for me; I rode a...
I'm 58 and carrying many injuries, currently riding a modded 2011 RMZ450, I was thinking the big bike was too much for me; I rode a mates 2013 KTM350 the other day, maybe it needed a pipe or something, I was a little disappointed in the performance; no peak like a 250, just broad gutless power, no peaks or troughs. Got back on my 450 and loved it more.

If the Japs build one, I wonder if a peaky 250 type power is the go or make tractor type power? Personally I'm thinking that a 'de-stroke' of a 450 might work? The longer the stroke, the larger the flywheels, hence more gyroscopic mass to change directions. This is so noticeable when comparing a 600 to a 1000 on the roadrace track, bikes weigh basically the same but a 600 can change direction so much easier at speed; it's all physics.
aees wrote:
The 350 has exactly the same power curve as a 250, but you need to hold it long up in the RPM. This is difficult, because...
The 350 has exactly the same power curve as a 250, but you need to hold it long up in the RPM. This is difficult, because a 250 or 125 does not do much to throw you back in the saddle, while the 350 makes you wonder why you ever bought it. Very difficult on anything else than sand to ride a 350 like a 250 with overrev.

Basically You did not hold it wide open long enough. If you did you would have noticed the massive horse kick in your face when it runs away.

Im a pretty fast rider, i race in lower RPMs. I thought the same, until i discovered that if i hold it wide open for 2-3sec i could barely hold on to it when it hit.
I went from a 350 to a 250 and prefer the 250.
Jrewing
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2/27/2018 4:23am
36Wheeler wrote:
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/27/246413/s1200_crf350.jpg[/img]
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?

Cairoli on a custom 400 Yamaha too??
Paul333
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2/27/2018 5:19am
There has to be a reason KTM/Husky sells everyone they build.
c0ncEpT
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2/27/2018 5:33am
What are the plans for the 2019 ktm/husq 350? I heard something about a torquier motor. I like the YZ250F power delivery and would jump at...
What are the plans for the 2019 ktm/husq 350? I heard something about a torquier motor. I like the YZ250F power delivery and would jump at a similar powerband 350. Not too interested in a 15k RPM 350.
I had a 2016 YZ250F before the 2018 KTM 350SXF that I have now and I think it has just as much low end as the Yamaha.

The Yamaha has a good punch down low and carrys steady power all the way to the rev limiter.

The KTM has a good punch down low and builds into a crazy powerful top end. When compared to the power it makes up top the bottom is weak. But compared to any 250F its just as strong if not stronger.

The best part about a 350 is how smooth and light it feels around the track. Hold the throttle and its a monster.
EastFlorida
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2/27/2018 5:44am
I agree with others who made it a point to not that the pre-15 350 was much weaker than the current models. If you rode a 13, I can see why people, didn't care for it as much. Ride a 15+ and see the difference in lower end torque... Quite dramatic actually...

If the 19 comes out with a little lower end grunt, I'll likely upgrade from my 16. The 350 is the perfect "lazy man's" bike when you add a Rekluse!! LOL
OR Racer46
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2/27/2018 5:51am
Yamaha had the XT 350. Honda had the XR / XL 350 Yamaha had a Dt 360 and Suzuki had a RM 360 . .
TJMX947
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2/27/2018 5:58am
I went from a 2014 CRF450R to a 2017 KTM 350 SXF and my take is the 450 has tons of usable power down low but its a brute and heavy. The 350 is metered and controllable, but has enough to get you up there...however once it kicks in it feels like a top fuel dragster from corner to corner and just feels light and fun. Its super fast. Revving gears out takes getting used to.

I have friends who are die hard brand buyers and I think they'll follow whatever the brand dictates. At the end of the day its marketing. For me personally I'm on a Dave Ramsey program and my 2017 is probably the last brand new bike I'll buy (this is my logic speaking) so I would love to have other colors to choose from on the used bike market in 5 years.
TJMX947
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2/27/2018 5:59am
36Wheeler wrote:
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/27/246413/s1200_crf350.jpg[/img]
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?

I never knew about this, what was the story?
OR Racer46
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2/27/2018 6:04am
36Wheeler wrote:
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/02/27/246413/s1200_crf350.jpg[/img]
anyone remember when Jeff Alessi rode a custom built crf350?

TJMX947 wrote:
I never knew about this, what was the story?
Probably for the stock 250f class at Lorretas ? J/k.
bayodome
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2/27/2018 7:09am
I think you'll see a competitive electric bike from one of the Japanese OEMs before you see a 350.
BobPA
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2/27/2018 7:17am
350’s also feel weak on the bottom because of their gearing. A 250f May feel equal down low at times, it you have to realize a 350 will go 10mph+ more by the time you are ready to shift.

Go up two on the rear and they really wake up. I went from a 350 to a 450 last year btw.
2/27/2018 7:53am
TJMX947 wrote:
I never knew about this, what was the story?
He raced it at the MXGP of Maggiora Italy I think. I remember seeing it at the time but forgotten the details on who built the motor etc. Maybe jeff can chime in and tell us more? he's often lurking in the forums
Johnny Depp
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2/27/2018 9:48am
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4? EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and...
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4?

EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and currently makes a dual injector model that is a step up in tech from what KTM is running, and offers a 390 and a 430 and a 480. They may have lights, but they don't have to apologize for their performance.

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2018/2018-beta-350rr-race-e…


Pirate421 wrote:
There’s a myriad of reasons I left the beta and Sherco out of this original thread. But the main being that I wanted to bring up...
There’s a myriad of reasons I left the beta and Sherco out of this original thread. But the main being that I wanted to bring up what I read in the magazine which was related to the 350sxf motocross model which beta do not make. I know members historically like to debate the beta is a capable mx machine but please for the sake of this thread, it does not apply.

Now for off-road the beta is a viable option but they are more of the niche within a niche. Their us off-road presence I feel has started to slip after losing a few teams and I don’t see them as being anywhere near half the level as the other brands mentioned.

I am mostly concerned with mx models here and the now big 6, two of which make 350s, which leaves the big 4 who do not.
Tuna wrote:
Beta a capable MX machine? Not without a fair amount of work. Fork swap, motor work, etc. They are Enduro bikes plain and simple. Trying to...
Beta a capable MX machine? Not without a fair amount of work. Fork swap, motor work, etc.
They are Enduro bikes plain and simple. Trying to hustle those Sachs OC forks on a track would put you in the hospital.
I thought we weren't gonna discuss this anymore, but let me correct a few things for you. Beta RE Race Editions have come with CC forks for about 10 years now. Engine work? KTM is fighting for low end, and Beta already has it, with dual injectors, it ain't slow. If it is too slow for you, get a 390 with the long stroke, or 430 or 480. $100 difference between models means it makes no sense to get a 350 then try to "hop" it up.
Just like many want to pretend that the 250 and 350 and 450's are somehow way different, it is the same with today's MX models and Enduro models. Pick what works best for you, torque or rev and have fun. But don't waste your typing trying to convince me that something not built in Japan or Austria is not worthy.
After KTM and Husky had 3 years of stinging defeats in the premier class in EnduroGP beat by Sherco once and Beta twice, Austria Inc. has decided to start their own series based on Extreme Enduro's. They took their ball and left their roots.
twotwosix
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2/27/2018 9:50am
The Big 4 is no longer a phrase.
pete24
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2/27/2018 10:03am
twotwosix wrote:
The Big 4 is no longer a phrase.
your rite it the big three now, suzuki doenst make anything good anymore , but ya if the big three made a 350 it would be something i would want
ML512
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2/27/2018 10:05am
Motofinne wrote:
I wonder why the 350 has a reputation of being a weekend warrior/vet rider bike? The current gen(16-18) 350 makes more HP than the KXF 450...
I wonder why the 350 has a reputation of being a weekend warrior/vet rider bike? The current gen(16-18) 350 makes more HP than the KXF 450 and RMZ 450. I think it's clearly fast enough to be competitive with other 450s in the right hands.

https://www.vitalmx.com/stories/non-public/38
HP is fairly dependent on the speed in which the work is done. Higher RPM with an engine built around that will make more HP in a sense...

If you look at the RPM a 450 makes its peak HP and match that RPM to a 350, you'll see its down about 5HP to a Kawi or Suzuki 450...down 7 or 8HP on a KTM or Honda in peak RPMs for those models. Torque is also notably down, you can ride the 350 harder to maximize those numbers but if ridden similar to a 450 its notably down on power.
ML512
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2/27/2018 10:06am
I thought we weren't gonna discuss this anymore, but let me correct a few things for you. Beta RE Race Editions have come with CC forks...
I thought we weren't gonna discuss this anymore, but let me correct a few things for you. Beta RE Race Editions have come with CC forks for about 10 years now. Engine work? KTM is fighting for low end, and Beta already has it, with dual injectors, it ain't slow. If it is too slow for you, get a 390 with the long stroke, or 430 or 480. $100 difference between models means it makes no sense to get a 350 then try to "hop" it up.
Just like many want to pretend that the 250 and 350 and 450's are somehow way different, it is the same with today's MX models and Enduro models. Pick what works best for you, torque or rev and have fun. But don't waste your typing trying to convince me that something not built in Japan or Austria is not worthy.
After KTM and Husky had 3 years of stinging defeats in the premier class in EnduroGP beat by Sherco once and Beta twice, Austria Inc. has decided to start their own series based on Extreme Enduro's. They took their ball and left their roots.
Rode a Beta 450 on a track two years ago...it's a different world, that's not a mx bike.
rbm33
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2/27/2018 10:08am
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4? EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and...
Why does everything have to revolve around the so called Big 4?

EnduroGP World Champion Beta has been making 350's as long as KTM ,2011, and currently makes a dual injector model that is a step up in tech from what KTM is running, and offers a 390 and a 430 and a 480. They may have lights, but they don't have to apologize for their performance.

https://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2018/2018-beta-350rr-race-e…


Ha, you beat me to it. i was going to say one of the big 4 does build a 350 and its KTM.
The big 4 today isn't who the Big 4 was ten years ago
MotoMatt_928
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2/27/2018 11:32am
It's odd that the Japanese manufacturers do not build a 350. As others have mentioned, it is KTM's #1 selling bike, so it is pulling business away from someone who would buy a 250 or 450 from a Japanese manufacturer. They obviously feel it is not that bad of a market share loss, so that is why they are not investing in it.

I came from a fully race-built motored KX250F with A-Kit suspension to a stock 2016 FC350 that I have been slowly modding over time, and never looked back. I'm a 30+ vet rider, and also ride single track and OHV trails, and this bike is the best for all types of riding that I do.


Here's a graph showing power levels for the newer generation KTM's, (250, 350, and 450) and a Suzuki 250 for reference. I can't remember who posted it, but it was on this forum. Good stuff.

1

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