Riders need better shoulder protective gear.

Rhino
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Rhino 1/13/2018 9:36pm
1/13/2018 9:36pm
Miss Supercross is built better to take a crash that most moto guys.






Beeby
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Beeby 1/13/2018 9:41pm
1/13/2018 9:41pm
The body armour I used to wear once upon a time had those parts over the upper arms/shoulders but it’s merely to deflect roost. In fact, when I bought it it had a warning sticker on the inside that said it was not designed to protect in case of impact and could actually lead to more severe injury.
McDuff
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McDuff 1/13/2018 9:45pm
1/13/2018 9:45pm
I've messed mine up so many times when I die I'm going to donate them to science.
TheLsho 1/13/2018 11:19pm
1/13/2018 11:19pm
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones, but most have been without wearing something. Is it not possible to mitigate the possibility of a separation or collarbone break somehow???

The Shop

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BobPA
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BobPA 1/13/2018 11:25pm
1/13/2018 11:25pm
Rhino wrote:
Miss Supercross is built better to take a crash that most moto guys.






Bro, just stop.
colintrax
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colintrax 1/13/2018 11:47pm
1/13/2018 11:47pm
TheLsho wrote:
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones...
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones, but most have been without wearing something. Is it not possible to mitigate the possibility of a separation or collarbone break somehow???
You fall down, how does having plastic between you and the ground help? Some padding could help, but what's 1/16" of foam really going to do when you get slammed in the whoops? What about when you land on your elbow, or hand? Padding doesn't help there, but the force is still going through the shoulder. A brace could help that, but then what's the brace connecting to? The spine? Energy has to go somewhere.
White_Trash 1/13/2018 11:58pm
1/13/2018 11:58pm
Unless that shoulder protection is attached to both the torso and humerus with a design that limits movement of that joint beyond typical range of motion, nothing will help in an incident like Musquins. And being that the shoulder is such a complicated joint with a huge range of motion, You wouldn't be able to design a device that both allows proper range of motion and support. And if you did it would be so bulky/complicated nobody would wear it.

This dislocation was caused by the way he landed on his arm as he braced for impact, literally nothing you could do to prevent it.

There are some devices, like knee braces where I'm on the fence about. You're taking a joint that is very specific to the way you are built, and then you jam it in to a mechanical hinge which forces you to bend the way it wants. You get to the extreme ends of motion of that mechanical hinge and your joint and something is going to bind... The thing that gives is your knee. The fact there is a fair amount of tissue between the brace and your actual joint means there is a fair amount of movement between the two, so I'm not sure how good of a job it would do by the time the force is transmitted off your bones, through your tissues and then to the actual brace. By that point, the damage is likely done.
TheLsho 1/14/2018 1:01am
1/14/2018 1:01am
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and collarbone breaking. I don't see how the force from taking a hit to the shoulder area is going to transfer to your spine if you wear a chest protector with shoulder protection. You don't think plastic (or a similar material) backed with foam (or potentially some new compound) would displace energy from that are you fall or take a hit on? What am I missing here?
PJRAUS
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PJRAUS 1/14/2018 1:18am
1/14/2018 1:18am
jemcee wrote:
I've dislocated my shoulder 3 times and I've broken my collar bone and shoulder blade..
Was wearing a Fox Roost 2 each time
That is disconcerting and proves that wearing one is no guarantee....But I've had my roost 2 for over 20 years and I've taken plenty of big diggers shoulder first...never had a shoulder or collarbone injury but I've had some serious broken bones and resulting surgeries. Personally I just won't ride without shoulder protection
Ask yourself this question...you just high sided and you are about to plough shoulder first into the ground...
If you could freeze frame, strap on that roost 2 before you hit , or just go with nothing between your shoulder and the ground but your jersey, would you reach for that old roost 2 or not ?

I get it that many disagree and have different experiences and I'm not going to advocate mandating shoulder protection
but if I was making my living racing mx and sx, I would want to get some shoulder protection....I just wonder if riders may not get a choice? Is it possible that their contracts stipulate that there must be nothing over the outside of their jersey so that sponsors logos are not obscured?

Back in the day so many top pros wore full body armour and just about every amateur..
Did the pros wear it just cause they got paid to wear it and did the amateurs wear it just because they wanted to look like the pros? I honestly don't know!
I know that when I started riding in 1980, I bought a set of Jofa shoulder pads....my riding mate had a set but left it behind one day ,took a digger and busted his collar bone....he said he was certain they would have dissipated enough of the impact to prevent the break...it stuck with me.
I personally believe I would have had a broken collarbone or two, maybe a shoulder injury or two, for dead certain multiple " severe contusions " not to mention seriousl gravel rash, busted or cracked ribs , whatever would have happened to my back when I went down and got run over those few times..... if not for that battered old roost 2 !

mauidex
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mauidex 1/14/2018 1:46am
1/14/2018 1:46am
when the guy who almost lost his arm doesnt wear anything, even after that, dont plan on any of his competitors sporting any protection eitherWhistling Whistling
WCRider
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WCRider 1/14/2018 2:03am
1/14/2018 2:03am
I feel that it's a question of aesthetics and skills especially for SX. They dont want to look like Goldorak and they want to be comfortable with their movements.
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jemcee 1/14/2018 2:05am
1/14/2018 2:05am
jemcee wrote:
I've dislocated my shoulder 3 times and I've broken my collar bone and shoulder blade..
Was wearing a Fox Roost 2 each time
PJRAUS wrote:
That is disconcerting and proves that wearing one is no guarantee....But I've had my roost 2 for over 20 years and I've taken plenty of big...
That is disconcerting and proves that wearing one is no guarantee....But I've had my roost 2 for over 20 years and I've taken plenty of big diggers shoulder first...never had a shoulder or collarbone injury but I've had some serious broken bones and resulting surgeries. Personally I just won't ride without shoulder protection
Ask yourself this question...you just high sided and you are about to plough shoulder first into the ground...
If you could freeze frame, strap on that roost 2 before you hit , or just go with nothing between your shoulder and the ground but your jersey, would you reach for that old roost 2 or not ?

I get it that many disagree and have different experiences and I'm not going to advocate mandating shoulder protection
but if I was making my living racing mx and sx, I would want to get some shoulder protection....I just wonder if riders may not get a choice? Is it possible that their contracts stipulate that there must be nothing over the outside of their jersey so that sponsors logos are not obscured?

Back in the day so many top pros wore full body armour and just about every amateur..
Did the pros wear it just cause they got paid to wear it and did the amateurs wear it just because they wanted to look like the pros? I honestly don't know!
I know that when I started riding in 1980, I bought a set of Jofa shoulder pads....my riding mate had a set but left it behind one day ,took a digger and busted his collar bone....he said he was certain they would have dissipated enough of the impact to prevent the break...it stuck with me.
I personally believe I would have had a broken collarbone or two, maybe a shoulder injury or two, for dead certain multiple " severe contusions " not to mention seriousl gravel rash, busted or cracked ribs , whatever would have happened to my back when I went down and got run over those few times..... if not for that battered old roost 2 !

Well the fact that I was wearing it each time should answer your first question haha

I just figured it would 'spread the impact' a bit.. or let me slide a bit instead of grab or grip

but I knew it wasn't gonna let me get away scot free
PJRAUS
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PJRAUS 1/14/2018 2:27am
1/14/2018 2:27am
It doesn't look like the newer fox protectors have the suspension mesh that keeps the shoulder cups up off your shoulders like the old ones did.


It's like the plastic just sits down on top of your shoulder now? Does anyone have the newer one? What's under the shoulder cup!
The old ones used to sit up and away from the point of the shoulder and transmit the impact through the mesh wish would flex and dissipate so much of the shock





The old ones worked so well for me anyway..
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Brent
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Brent 1/14/2018 9:16am
1/14/2018 9:16am
When you stick your arm out during a fall is when dislocation can and has happened to me. I had shoulder protection on at the time.
SoCalMX70
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SoCalMX70 1/14/2018 9:24am
1/14/2018 9:24am
About 9 years I ago I learned my lesson about what happens when you put your arm/hand out in a fall. My hands stay on the bars now, or I curl up and try to roll if I let go.

I never want to experience that type of pain again. Shoulder surgery wasn't cheap either.
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bents 1/14/2018 9:37am
1/14/2018 9:37am
It makes no sense to me that there isn't some sort of mandated and certified safety gear requirements. It is actually crazy considering all of the money spent on riders and equipment to win championships. I know that injuries are unavoidable but if it was mandatory then I think gear companies would invest more into technology as to the minimalist stuff they are throwing out there. Shit back in the 70's I, along with a lot of other riders wore hockey shoulder pads with a chest protector in front of the jersey. We had real leathers too-which were just plain cool (but hot!). And we sure weren't on the current 450's! If this were the case then the trickle down effect would be real, and more people would be suitably prepared for the inevitable. Kenny might have benefited from instant airbag deployments or something!

Riders would adapt-they would have no choice. What are they going to do, not ride?
Rhino
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Rhino 1/14/2018 9:38am
1/14/2018 9:38am
PJRAUS wrote:
It doesn't look like the newer fox protectors have the suspension mesh that keeps the shoulder cups up off your shoulders like the old ones did...
It doesn't look like the newer fox protectors have the suspension mesh that keeps the shoulder cups up off your shoulders like the old ones did.


It's like the plastic just sits down on top of your shoulder now? Does anyone have the newer one? What's under the shoulder cup!
The old ones used to sit up and away from the point of the shoulder and transmit the impact through the mesh wish would flex and dissipate so much of the shock





The old ones worked so well for me anyway..
That's not the same as the old roost 2. Not sure what that model is.

Tomac, Wilson, something would have helped probably. Musquin probably had his arm out? Anyone have a better video?
Rhino
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Rhino 1/14/2018 9:43am
1/14/2018 9:43am Edited Date/Time 1/14/2018 10:06am
BobPA wrote:
Bro, just stop.
Marvin the martian is my old ladies favorite rider, and even she agrees. It's not rocket science.

Plus, ask people who have seen Peick wad it up spectacularly. Skin doesn't hold a body together.

Pit Row

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colintrax
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colintrax 1/14/2018 9:50am
1/14/2018 9:50am
TheLsho wrote:
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and...
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and collarbone breaking. I don't see how the force from taking a hit to the shoulder area is going to transfer to your spine if you wear a chest protector with shoulder protection. You don't think plastic (or a similar material) backed with foam (or potentially some new compound) would displace energy from that are you fall or take a hit on? What am I missing here?
Sure, foam would help. Insignificantly. 100g's or 99.999g's you're gonna be fucked. And that's assuming your point of contact is gonna be foam.
Like I said, energy has to go somewhere. This ain't getting pegged with a baseball kind of energy, it's 150lb+ men being thrown to the ground by 220+lb motorcycles at 30mph energy.
Andy_Greenney 1/14/2018 10:01am
1/14/2018 10:01am
Clue is in the name...roost protector, while the shoulder can move it can be damaged.
Rhino
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Rhino 1/14/2018 10:14am
1/14/2018 10:14am
TheLsho wrote:
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and...
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and collarbone breaking. I don't see how the force from taking a hit to the shoulder area is going to transfer to your spine if you wear a chest protector with shoulder protection. You don't think plastic (or a similar material) backed with foam (or potentially some new compound) would displace energy from that are you fall or take a hit on? What am I missing here?
colintrax wrote:
Sure, foam would help. Insignificantly. 100g's or 99.999g's you're gonna be fucked. And that's assuming your point of contact is gonna be foam. Like I said...
Sure, foam would help. Insignificantly. 100g's or 99.999g's you're gonna be fucked. And that's assuming your point of contact is gonna be foam.
Like I said, energy has to go somewhere. This ain't getting pegged with a baseball kind of energy, it's 150lb+ men being thrown to the ground by 220+lb motorcycles at 30mph energy.
Maybe, just maybe, these dudes need to built better?

Running backs are more agile, more flexible, and stronger, and can take a hit from a 350 lb monster whos only goal is to send you to the grave right on the field as he drills you into the turf.

20 times per game. These racers aren't built to hit the deck.

olds cool
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olds cool 1/14/2018 11:35am
1/14/2018 11:35am
tempura wrote:
Someone make a jersey that protection can fit under!!!
Or maybe buy a size or two larger jersey than what you normally wear??? Wink Whistling
Question
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Question 1/14/2018 11:48am
1/14/2018 11:48am
Each protective gear has its limits, helmet, boots, kness braces. Chest protector has limits too and should be improved specifically regarding shoulders, but it is in my book as much if not more important than boots.

How many vital organs are in the leg?
colintrax
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colintrax 1/14/2018 11:57am
1/14/2018 11:57am
Question wrote:
Each protective gear has its limits, helmet, boots, kness braces. Chest protector has limits too and should be improved specifically regarding shoulders, but it is in...
Each protective gear has its limits, helmet, boots, kness braces. Chest protector has limits too and should be improved specifically regarding shoulders, but it is in my book as much if not more important than boots.

How many vital organs are in the leg?
A cut/torn saphenous or femoral can kill you.
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bama205 1/14/2018 12:21pm
1/14/2018 12:21pm
TheLsho wrote:
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones...
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones, but most have been without wearing something. Is it not possible to mitigate the possibility of a separation or collarbone break somehow???
colintrax wrote:
You fall down, how does having plastic between you and the ground help? Some padding could help, but what's 1/16" of foam really going to do...
You fall down, how does having plastic between you and the ground help? Some padding could help, but what's 1/16" of foam really going to do when you get slammed in the whoops? What about when you land on your elbow, or hand? Padding doesn't help there, but the force is still going through the shoulder. A brace could help that, but then what's the brace connecting to? The spine? Energy has to go somewhere.
Why wear a helmet.
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gt80rider 1/14/2018 12:27pm
1/14/2018 12:27pm
kongols wrote:
No gear will protect your shoulder when you land on your elbow.
First, you can't just Huck that out there without some sort of evidence. Surely you are basing that off some sort of scientific study?

I would guess you are not. Therefore I will fix your quote. "No Existing gear will protect...".

I am way past sick and tired of hearing the "protective gear limits motion"... Or "it is too hot/heavy"... Excuses, because that's what they are.

Our industry, except for helmets and perhaps boots, has never taken safety seriously. Has a group of engineers ever set out to make Moto specific forearm/elbow guards? True shoulder pads, not just a "roost" deflector?

Make the rules, enforce them, let the gear companies come up with better designs, I mean that's why they exist. The days of gear companies being 95% about fashion and 5% about real safety need to change.
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brimx153 1/14/2018 12:38pm
1/14/2018 12:38pm


this guy wore one his whole career . and never injured his shoulder s. OH WAIT ! !!!! Its a piece of plastic would nt help at all for a shoulder injury no even 1 % .

ps. IMO RR was one of the most naturally talented riders of all time. and his shoulder stopped him from maybe being as good as RC.
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brimx153 1/14/2018 12:43pm
1/14/2018 12:43pm
TheLsho wrote:
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones...
I am just confused at how some padding and/or plastic would not lessen the blow to the shoulder area? I have separated shoulders and broken collarbones, but most have been without wearing something. Is it not possible to mitigate the possibility of a separation or collarbone break somehow???
colintrax wrote:
You fall down, how does having plastic between you and the ground help? Some padding could help, but what's 1/16" of foam really going to do...
You fall down, how does having plastic between you and the ground help? Some padding could help, but what's 1/16" of foam really going to do when you get slammed in the whoops? What about when you land on your elbow, or hand? Padding doesn't help there, but the force is still going through the shoulder. A brace could help that, but then what's the brace connecting to? The spine? Energy has to go somewhere.
bama205 wrote:
Why wear a helmet.
your comparing a piece of plastic 3mm thick to a helmet. wow just wow
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PFitzG38 1/14/2018 12:54pm
1/14/2018 12:54pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2018 1:24pm
pdub187 wrote:
Tomac does wear an under-jersey roost guard.
We're talking about protection. Not something to keep you warm.

One of my favorite things to do in moto is post up behind some guy throwing thick roost, look right into it and grab a handful while it all bounces off me....of course growling the whole time. You can't really do that with a 1/4" foam rubber roost deflector......Arrrghhhh!!
woody woodpecker 1/14/2018 1:11pm
1/14/2018 1:11pm
TheLsho wrote:
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and...
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and collarbone breaking. I don't see how the force from taking a hit to the shoulder area is going to transfer to your spine if you wear a chest protector with shoulder protection. You don't think plastic (or a similar material) backed with foam (or potentially some new compound) would displace energy from that are you fall or take a hit on? What am I missing here?
colintrax wrote:
Sure, foam would help. Insignificantly. 100g's or 99.999g's you're gonna be fucked. And that's assuming your point of contact is gonna be foam. Like I said...
Sure, foam would help. Insignificantly. 100g's or 99.999g's you're gonna be fucked. And that's assuming your point of contact is gonna be foam.
Like I said, energy has to go somewhere. This ain't getting pegged with a baseball kind of energy, it's 150lb+ men being thrown to the ground by 220+lb motorcycles at 30mph energy.
Rhino wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, these dudes need to built better? Running backs are more agile, more flexible, and stronger, and can take a hit from a 350...
Maybe, just maybe, these dudes need to built better?

Running backs are more agile, more flexible, and stronger, and can take a hit from a 350 lb monster whos only goal is to send you to the grave right on the field as he drills you into the turf.

20 times per game. These racers aren't built to hit the deck.

Or maybe... you don't know what you're talking about. Aldon trains his guys to be flexible and strong without having unnecessary mass, just look at some of the hits RC took. Just because someone like Marvin isn't big and muscular doesn't mean he isn't strong, if he wasn't he wouldn't be able to throw a 450 around the way he does. He hit the deck hard and in a bad way, having more muscle mass wouldn't have helped him.

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