Riders need better shoulder protective gear.

Ebs
Posts
838
Joined
6/1/2014
Location
MI US
1/14/2018 1:11pm
Some of you must not keep up with current gear offerings. Theres a lot more than plastic roost guards out there.
PFitzG38
Posts
1634
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA US
1/14/2018 1:14pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2018 1:49pm
Agreed. I think the best for protection is the old HRP flak jacket with the netting on your shoulders. I never understood why when you turn pro you get rid of all your upper body protection when you need it most. I recently went down and sustained a grade 2 separation of my shoulder wearing a full chest pro from rhymes with Smoy Ree Tracing. I liked it cause it fits under my jersey if I want. I had switched from a Flak Jacket. When I impacted it happened in slo mo and I could feel my pads bottom out and my shoulder give way. I'm OUT.

6 mos later at my second race back I missed a shift and the guy behind my blew by so close he overlapped my bars by about six inches and just took them out of my hands ala Savatgy at Vegas courtesy of Zacho. Luckily I had reevaluated my chest pro. choice and went back to my Flak Jack. Anyway I landed exactly the same as when I separated my shoulder - again it all happened in slo mo - again I could feel my shoulder impact, I could feel the netting in my pads tighten and start to absorb the impact, I could feel my shoulder slightly bottom out and impact after the netting did its job, what I didn't feel was another damaged shoulder.

When I inspected my pads I could see the netting had ripped a bit...NICE, that would've been my tendon.
I 100% believe I would still be on the couch if not for good upper body protection.

Some of the features I like about the old school HRP's is that you can get them in clear, the large solid plates just look more protective than anything else and they have an extra rib protection belt you can get that will eliminate the risk of taking a bar to the gut. I've tested that feature a couple times once I knocked the wind out of myself so bad that without it I'm sure I would have had to get an aftermarket spleen or something. Also if you wear a Leatt you can get one that is made for it, but I don't like the look of the buckle on that one and just trimmed the standard one down a 1/4" on both sides and re-riveted the lining/padding

These guys getting injured unnecessarily need to learn to dress for the crash and not the ride. For their employers' sake, their bank account and fans sake if not their own
colintrax
Posts
4704
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Taylorsville, GA US
Fantasy
2342nd
1/14/2018 1:59pm
bama205 wrote:
Why wear a helmet.
If you can't tell the difference between the impact your head takes and your shoulder takes then I can't help you.

Some of yall really should go take a basic human anatomy class and physics 2211. Hell, go for 2212 while you're at it.
PFitzG38
Posts
1634
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA US
1/14/2018 2:19pm
TheLsho wrote:
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and...
I am not talking about bracing to help prevent a dislocation. I am actually not talking about dislocation at all. I am talking about separation and collarbone breaking. I don't see how the force from taking a hit to the shoulder area is going to transfer to your spine if you wear a chest protector with shoulder protection. You don't think plastic (or a similar material) backed with foam (or potentially some new compound) would displace energy from that are you fall or take a hit on? What am I missing here?
Nets bro, nets. It's all about the nets now. Nets for berms, nets for shoulders, nets for crocodiles. Saftey nets, we need more nets......with cowbells. More nets and cowbells

The Shop

PJRAUS
Posts
1532
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
1/14/2018 2:32pm
PFitzG38 wrote:
Agreed. I think the best for protection is the old HRP flak jacket with the netting on your shoulders. I never understood why when you turn...
Agreed. I think the best for protection is the old HRP flak jacket with the netting on your shoulders. I never understood why when you turn pro you get rid of all your upper body protection when you need it most. I recently went down and sustained a grade 2 separation of my shoulder wearing a full chest pro from rhymes with Smoy Ree Tracing. I liked it cause it fits under my jersey if I want. I had switched from a Flak Jacket. When I impacted it happened in slo mo and I could feel my pads bottom out and my shoulder give way. I'm OUT.

6 mos later at my second race back I missed a shift and the guy behind my blew by so close he overlapped my bars by about six inches and just took them out of my hands ala Savatgy at Vegas courtesy of Zacho. Luckily I had reevaluated my chest pro. choice and went back to my Flak Jack. Anyway I landed exactly the same as when I separated my shoulder - again it all happened in slo mo - again I could feel my shoulder impact, I could feel the netting in my pads tighten and start to absorb the impact, I could feel my shoulder slightly bottom out and impact after the netting did its job, what I didn't feel was another damaged shoulder.

When I inspected my pads I could see the netting had ripped a bit...NICE, that would've been my tendon.
I 100% believe I would still be on the couch if not for good upper body protection.

Some of the features I like about the old school HRP's is that you can get them in clear, the large solid plates just look more protective than anything else and they have an extra rib protection belt you can get that will eliminate the risk of taking a bar to the gut. I've tested that feature a couple times once I knocked the wind out of myself so bad that without it I'm sure I would have had to get an aftermarket spleen or something. Also if you wear a Leatt you can get one that is made for it, but I don't like the look of the buckle on that one and just trimmed the standard one down a 1/4" on both sides and re-riveted the lining/padding

These guys getting injured unnecessarily need to learn to dress for the crash and not the ride. For their employers' sake, their bank account and fans sake if not their own
Exactly, the mesh netting in my old Roost 2 does exactly what your flack jak does...it's a great idea that has always worked for me. It dissipates the energy of the impact...just having a piece of plastic and some thin foam over your shoulder won't do as much to absorb shock
mauidex
Posts
2069
Joined
9/12/2011
Location
Haiku, HI US
1/14/2018 2:40pm
Yeah only way to lessen severity of impact is to dissipate the force. It works just like safer walls at the auto racing tracks. Football pads use layers of different materials but weight is not as much an issue. Several new technologies and materials and construction techniques are available but seems that no one has any interest in shoulder protection. Maybe they will start now as 3 guys out in 2 races with shoulder issues??
PJRAUS
Posts
1532
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
1/14/2018 2:41pm
brimx153 wrote:
your comparing a piece of plastic 3mm thick to a helmet. wow just wow
Not necessarily...so hold off on the wows!
The old chest / shoulder protectors like the fox and the hrp had a veavy duty nylon mesh that sat on your shoulder and suspended the shoulder cup a reasonable distance above it.
When the plastic shoulder cup takes a hit , it's like trying to compress a shock absorber, the mesh stretches before the plastic shoulder cup can make contact with the shoulder. It is not like having just a piece of 3 mm plastic sitting directly on top of your shoulder at all, that wouldn't do much at all to dissipate the impact. In fact those old designs did work somewhat the way a helmet is designed to work and could be improved massively with today's technology , just seems like there isn't a market for shoulder protection anymore
1
tempura
Posts
2079
Joined
5/18/2015
Location
JP
1/14/2018 2:45pm
tempura wrote:
Someone make a jersey that protection can fit under!!!
olds cool wrote:
Or maybe buy a size or two larger jersey than what you normally wear??? WinkWhistling
Then I'd need to roll up the arms, as they'd be over my glovesWhistling
Monk
Posts
866
Joined
1/11/2017
Location
CA
1/14/2018 3:08pm
One of the best chest protectors (with shoulder protection) to ever hit the market...back in 1999...

CarlinoJoeVideo
Posts
7358
Joined
11/30/2013
Location
Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
2339th
1/14/2018 3:16pm
From experience, the only thing that has a chance of stopping your shoulder to dislocate is something like this:


But as you can see it would work for moto. Once your shoulder become loose it’s very hard to get it back right without surgery.

In Deano’s Case maybe shoulder protection could have helped his bruising.
olds cool
Posts
3007
Joined
1/17/2010
Location
Claremont, NC US
1/14/2018 3:18pm
tempura wrote:
Someone make a jersey that protection can fit under!!!
olds cool wrote:
Or maybe buy a size or two larger jersey than what you normally wear??? WinkWhistling
tempura wrote:
Then I'd need to roll up the arms, as they'd be over my glovesWhistling
The extra length of the sleeves would be taken up by the shoulder protection. Do the jerseys you buy not have cuffs on the sleeves?
Question
Posts
3076
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
FR
1/14/2018 3:33pm
From experience, the only thing that has a chance of stopping your shoulder to dislocate is something like this: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/01/14/238037/s1200_06261001_399A_4CB0_9EF6_38D9C781F3ED.jpg[/img] But as you can see it...
From experience, the only thing that has a chance of stopping your shoulder to dislocate is something like this:


But as you can see it would work for moto. Once your shoulder become loose it’s very hard to get it back right without surgery.

In Deano’s Case maybe shoulder protection could have helped his bruising.
Interesting but must be warm and the only issue here is the impact may transfer somewhere else, a bit like modern boots transfered to the knee, then knee braces transfers to femurs.

Just wearing the good ones that exists would already a big step forward. Something to consider too in favor of a rule is they are role models so it is important for kids to wear it (and for the parents to be less scared)
tempura
Posts
2079
Joined
5/18/2015
Location
JP
1/14/2018 3:43pm
olds cool wrote:
Or maybe buy a size or two larger jersey than what you normally wear??? WinkWhistling
tempura wrote:
Then I'd need to roll up the arms, as they'd be over my glovesWhistling
olds cool wrote:
The extra length of the sleeves would be taken up by the shoulder protection. Do the jerseys you buy not have cuffs on the sleeves?
I've tried it, trust me..
Motocross gear is getting like the skinny jeans tight shirt wearing crowd.. Fashion before practicality. Motocross gear needs to be made to incorporate full protection..the end..
PJRAUS
Posts
1532
Joined
5/28/2016
Location
AU
1/14/2018 3:47pm
Ok, so I've got too much time on my hands at the moment ,so I thought I'd try and make my point with a short video.
What would happen if I took this big old rubber mallet and smacked myself in the shoulder with it?
It's hard as hell, weighs about 3/4 of a kilo and has a long handle.
I'd cause myself a serious injury that's what!


But I know I could do that with the old roost 2 strapped on cause it's got the suspension netting under the shoulder cups and would dissipate the shock. It's saved me many times, but as one other guy said, he's had injuries and always worn one, so it's not a 100% guarantee by any means
The point of the video is that wearing a protector like this is sure as hell better than not wearing one when you take a hard hit to the point of your shoulder.



Well I hope you got a laugh out of that! But the point is, that's a heavy and very hard old rubber mallet and if I did that without the roost 2 on, then I'd probably be in hospital or at least incapacitated and sore as hell for a few days.
If I had one of those newer protectors on that doesn't have a suspension mesh between the shoulder cup and the shoulder ,just some thin foam...I'd have hurt myself for sure.

Sure this silly test doesn't replicate a high impact crash like what happens when you crash, but I think it clearly demonstrates that some protection CAN BE SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN NONE.
I just wish a manufacturer would apply some 21st century design to this principle and come up with a better design than this old roost 2 ,so I can replace the worn out shabby old thing with something that is actually better

Flame away, I can take it!

kzizok
Posts
8393
Joined
10/19/2010
Location
AS US
Fantasy
2034th
1/14/2018 3:51pm
Minus Tomac and Musquin (and maybe Deano), who all are out due to shoulder (not clavicle) injuries?
bball35
Posts
326
Joined
11/20/2017
Location
Lexington, SC US
1/14/2018 3:52pm
There is protection out there and the AMA needs to start mandating that riders wear certain pieces of gear just like the NFL does. It’s absurd to me these riders are flying through the air with nothing to procteft their organs

Some Nascar drivers hated full face helmets including Dale Jr. but after incidents Nascar finally made it mandatory that each driver wears a full face helmet.
Rhino
Posts
482
Joined
11/20/2017
Location
US
1/14/2018 6:25pm
Or maybe... you don't know what you're talking about. Aldon trains his guys to be flexible and strong without having unnecessary mass, just look at some...
Or maybe... you don't know what you're talking about. Aldon trains his guys to be flexible and strong without having unnecessary mass, just look at some of the hits RC took. Just because someone like Marvin isn't big and muscular doesn't mean he isn't strong, if he wasn't he wouldn't be able to throw a 450 around the way he does. He hit the deck hard and in a bad way, having more muscle mass wouldn't have helped him.
Tell that to a football coach.

These guys don't need strength to hold onto a bike.
How strong do you think Forkner or A.C. is? They are tiny.

I watched a racer who didn't have the strength to push his bike off of himself to get out from under it without help.


ama530
Posts
200
Joined
10/19/2011
Location
Lehighton, PA US
1/14/2018 6:58pm
Best protection is a strong lean physically fit body.
Agreed!

I'll use the example of Mike LaRocco. He was fit, muscular, and has the record for the most starts. He had longevity because of his muscular strength. He was as strong as an ox and had muscle size. The current riders look like coat hangers with skin on them. (Less Weston Peick.) It is all about cardio and no strength. Flexibility is great but you need the muscle mass to go along with it. They hit the ground and fold up like tin foil. I agree with using an upper body protection system but it doesn't replace muscle mass to keep the joints strong and protected. Sad to say, the riders today are disposable compared to the past. No longevity. Also, if you want shoulder protection. Try one of these.

Question
Posts
3076
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
FR
1/17/2018 3:43pm
I fully agree with them. It is not perfect, especially some (so it can be improved, i.e. rxr air type on collarbone and shoulder), but it is better than nothing.

Also, when shoulders and elbows are well protected, when you see it coming you are less afraid to roll a bit more (and instinctly you can reduce the force you put on the arm/hand, which avoid shoulders injuries - judo like falls). It can't always prevent, but it lower the probability.

Post a reply to: Riders need better shoulder protective gear.

The Latest