Are the racers smartening up? Low entries

bama205 wrote:

I've always thought an open privateer class would be cool. A third class. No factory riders allowed. Let factory riders get paid from their teams and...

I've always thought an open privateer class would be cool. A third class. No factory riders allowed. Let factory riders get paid from their teams and the purse go to the open-private class. Maybe the factories could pull riders from that class as well. This isn't an ametuer class, it's pros without salary paying rides/factory bikes.

mx317 wrote:

Bring back the claiming rule and you won't have $50,000 250Fs.

KennyT wrote:

Places 20-40 in both classes have nothing to race for other than fun...if 90 degrees on rutted tracks is considered fun. Let's get the top 20...

Places 20-40 in both classes have nothing to race for other than fun...if 90 degrees on rutted tracks is considered fun.

Let's get the top 20 from each class into the "International" class and the bottom 20 from each into the Support class. Then the guys making nothing and having no chance of even getting a top ten have something to race for. And the fans get the 40 best riders in the Country on the same gate....as it should be

SeaClassExpert wrote:

It's simply because very few people can afford to rebuild these 250F's after every race, they simply cost too much money. Even if you're a top...

It's simply because very few people can afford to rebuild these 250F's after every race, they simply cost too much money. Even if you're a top 5 guy on the track, if you're riding a near stock bike you simply can't compete with the PC, Geico, or factory KTMs.


Let them run 2T's and I'd bet you'd see some more entries. It won't immediately fix the problem, but it would give people a more economical option to be competitive.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race? Secondly you're saying that a top 5...

First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race?

Secondly you're saying that a top 5 guy cannot show up on a stock bike and compete? (Define stock) cause nobody that is racing is riding a stock bike and I know plenty of fast guys that can dial in a good suspension tune and still run with some of the top guys. It's not all about power, however these days with fuel injection it is much easier to obtain power than it has been in years past

Lastly, racers are able to run smokers if they choose to do so. However that would be a waist of time and money and run the risk of major injury trying to keep up with the brute power of the 4 stroke, most of these guys are running local series events that pay the way into the big shows like racing the outdoors. So why be on a bike that isn't going to be competitive

SeaClassExpert wrote:

1. Are you familiar with what a nationals caliber 250F is like to maintain? They are pumping over 50HP these days, what do you think that...

1. Are you familiar with what a nationals caliber 250F is like to maintain? They are pumping over 50HP these days, what do you think that does to the internals and what the costs associated are?

2. I never mentioned a 450.

3. "It's not all about power". Right, because that's why privateers pull holeshots all of the time. Skill and timing is a very big part of it, but you're lying to yourself if you think Plessinger, Martin, or Forkner don't benefit from factory horsepower off of the gate.

4. Racers are not able to run smokers at the level they want to. It's why you don't see a 250 2T in the 250 class, they can only run against 450's and at that point, you're basically it's racing for fun. You can't be competitive in outdoors with a 2T under the current rules.

Canadad wrote:

It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...

It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has...

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has expired? What have you come up with?

You are getting away from what you were saying in you're earlier post, I've never made mention that factory bikes have no advantage or it's riders. Not sure where you are getting that?

Current rules aren't making it hard to race, hard work is what is making it hard for people race! If it were easy everyone would do it! This sport of racing isn't for anyone who wants to make a career out of it!

Everyone loves a hero and my idols are always the guys who can persevere in this sport of being a independent rider or "privateer" The Peick family comes to mind when I think of this special riders! It takes a lot to make it happen in this sport and money is in my opinion not one of the top 3 things I cann think of.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has...

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has expired? What have you come up with?

You are getting away from what you were saying in you're earlier post, I've never made mention that factory bikes have no advantage or it's riders. Not sure where you are getting that?

Current rules aren't making it hard to race, hard work is what is making it hard for people race! If it were easy everyone would do it! This sport of racing isn't for anyone who wants to make a career out of it!

Everyone loves a hero and my idols are always the guys who can persevere in this sport of being a independent rider or "privateer" The Peick family comes to mind when I think of this special riders! It takes a lot to make it happen in this sport and money is in my opinion not one of the top 3 things I cann think of.

Mx286 wrote:

Based off your last sentence, you are absolutely NUTS if you think money is not a big essential to making it happen. Money IS what it...

Based off your last sentence, you are absolutely NUTS if you think money is not a big essential to making it happen. Money IS what it takes to make it happen.

kzizok wrote:

I wondered how long it would take, if it was going to happen, for the "bottom up" decline in MX to affect the highest level of...

I wondered how long it would take, if it was going to happen, for the "bottom up" decline in MX to affect the highest level of racing. Local, regional, and national amatuer MX is a shell of itself. A lot of it doesn't even exist anymore. It appears it is making its way to the pinnacle of MX racing in the US. Its certainly is cause for concern. I understand that as it moves east, we should see some increase. But the baseline numbers are lower than normal, and in decline.

motomike137 wrote:

Imho this is spot on. It is a complicated equation why this is happening but at grass roots level the sport really has declined a lot...

Imho this is spot on. It is a complicated equation why this is happening but at grass roots level the sport really has declined a lot. Once the current crop of Vets stop showing up things will really get tough. The younger generations don't have the finances or the interest in motorsports like we once had.

Phillip_Lamb wrote:

not to start the whole 2 vs 4 debate. but to build a competitive 250f you need to drop around 10k on the bike on a...

not to start the whole 2 vs 4 debate.

but to build a competitive 250f you need to drop around 10k on the bike

on a 125 you can spend under 2k and having something good enough

kzizok wrote:

I wondered how long it would take, if it was going to happen, for the "bottom up" decline in MX to affect the highest level of...

I wondered how long it would take, if it was going to happen, for the "bottom up" decline in MX to affect the highest level of racing. Local, regional, and national amatuer MX is a shell of itself. A lot of it doesn't even exist anymore. It appears it is making its way to the pinnacle of MX racing in the US. Its certainly is cause for concern. I understand that as it moves east, we should see some increase. But the baseline numbers are lower than normal, and in decline.

motomike137 wrote:

Imho this is spot on. It is a complicated equation why this is happening but at grass roots level the sport really has declined a lot...

Imho this is spot on. It is a complicated equation why this is happening but at grass roots level the sport really has declined a lot. Once the current crop of Vets stop showing up things will really get tough. The younger generations don't have the finances or the interest in motorsports like we once had.

Tenacious P wrote:

I agree. I'll add to it that the 2008 economic downturn was kind of the end of a thriving blue-collar economy, one that did a good...

I agree. I'll add to it that the 2008 economic downturn was kind of the end of a thriving blue-collar economy, one that did a good job to support moto. Everybody and their brother was a contractor because the HELOC money was flowing and construction was everywhere. Guys who poured concrete were buying a $150K sandrail, a $60K diesel truck jacked up 18", and a 5-th wheel with a brand new family pack of bikes inside (450 for dad, TTR for mom, 125's, 80's, 60's for kids, quad for daughter).

The problem was credit was too easy to get and cash-flow was not sustainable long term. Their toys and boats were repo'd and their credit was trashed in the process. These were/are our people! The people who sponsored grassroots privateer efforts, who bought new bikes every year or two, who kept the sport thriving.

Fast forward to 2017. I am a college graduate with a pretty good job in banking, I ride track 3-4x/month, but I cannot get myself to throw down $10K for a brand new dirtbike... it's simply too much money. Bikes are too expensive and they are not getting cheaper. Wages have been stagnant for 20 years now, and the core of our sport has piss poor credit and can't afford toys.

Not to mention $60 SX tickets... give me a break.

Canadad wrote:

It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...

It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.

smoothies862 wrote:

pete fox talked about this with matthes. every big wig,leader ,company etc. needs to call a meeting. proactive not reactive this sport needs to be.i think...

pete fox talked about this with matthes. every big wig,leader ,company etc. needs to call a meeting. proactive not reactive this sport needs to be.i think entry level cheap 2 strokes. you can still have high tech 4 strokes. just like I can go buy a raptor or a baseline truck. focus or mustang gt. also the payout in this sport is silly. slice from the top(promoters,factories)and work your way down or there will be no top.

smoothies862 wrote:

pete fox talked about this with matthes. every big wig,leader ,company etc. needs to call a meeting. proactive not reactive this sport needs to be.i think...

pete fox talked about this with matthes. every big wig,leader ,company etc. needs to call a meeting. proactive not reactive this sport needs to be.i think entry level cheap 2 strokes. you can still have high tech 4 strokes. just like I can go buy a raptor or a baseline truck. focus or mustang gt. also the payout in this sport is silly. slice from the top(promoters,factories)and work your way down or there will be no top.

newmann wrote:

Got a link? I was at the 1977 Fox Team reunion party and Pete touched on the subject. I think there are quite a few within...

Got a link? I was at the 1977 Fox Team reunion party and Pete touched on the subject. I think there are quite a few within the industry who think that the 125 class needs to make a return to the upper levels of the sport. The FMF Dream Race video shows some of the good side of the sport. 40 guys on the gate in the 250F class is just a joke anyway. Such a drastic level of difference in the bike and support outside the top 20, maybe top 10.

GreaseMeter wrote:

I honesty think the issues are the 4 strokes. 2 strokes produce better racing, cheaper to work on, and more fun. I know that wont be...

I honesty think the issues are the 4 strokes. 2 strokes produce better racing, cheaper to work on, and more fun. I know that wont be a popular opinion and may shun me, but its just my opinion.

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has...

I have some knowledge about bikes these days. Question is do you? Have you torn down a race motor after a 15 hr run time has expired? What have you come up with?

You are getting away from what you were saying in you're earlier post, I've never made mention that factory bikes have no advantage or it's riders. Not sure where you are getting that?

Current rules aren't making it hard to race, hard work is what is making it hard for people race! If it were easy everyone would do it! This sport of racing isn't for anyone who wants to make a career out of it!

Everyone loves a hero and my idols are always the guys who can persevere in this sport of being a independent rider or "privateer" The Peick family comes to mind when I think of this special riders! It takes a lot to make it happen in this sport and money is in my opinion not one of the top 3 things I cann think of.

Mx286 wrote:

Based off your last sentence, you are absolutely NUTS if you think money is not a big essential to making it happen. Money IS what it...

Based off your last sentence, you are absolutely NUTS if you think money is not a big essential to making it happen. Money IS what it takes to make it happen.

kkawboy14 wrote:

I personally know 10 Pros, that when their dads quit funding them.....they were done!

Katoomey wrote:

Last time i checked, offroad racing wasn't any cheaper than moto. At least not at a high level, so...why is that segment growing?

Katoomey wrote:

Last time i checked, offroad racing wasn't any cheaper than moto. At least not at a high level, so...why is that segment growing?