Are the racers smartening up? Low entries

TeamGreen
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5/25/2017 8:57pm
Canadad wrote:
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.
I had a twin brother that was taken from my family at birth and sent to The Great White North.

I think I found him.
twizzler
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5/25/2017 9:17pm
I know current national racers and past natty racers. Today the privateer racers say it's too expensive, too serious because to compete with the factory guys you have to train hard, eat better and basically run yourself ragged just to qualify in the back half. Once they do that they run out of money and burnout. Racing is not fun to them. Now they would rather buy a 450 and ride for fun locally practice and race. Or they give up altogether and find a job. Racers in the90's could pay $100 for a pro card. Take their 2 stroke to the track in back of their pick up and qualify and manage to run in the top 20. In the 80s-90s one could show up at LLs and run top 3 or even win a race or an overall in 125 or 250 pitting out of their pick up truck. LLs today is stacked with amateur paid pros with motor homes, trailers. It's just out of reach nowadays too many things have changed.
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Rockinar
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5/25/2017 10:19pm
The bikes are just too expensive, the schedule is terrible and the payout is low. Unless you're a top 5 450 guy, you're eating Top Raman.
SoCalMX70
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5/25/2017 10:49pm
So, I hit LACR this past weekend. First time on a track in over 8 years iirc. Alessi was there practicing on the vet track, which was cool to see, but to the story...

My truck had 2 YZ250s in it, mine and my buddy's. Half the bikes at the track were 2 strokes... Some were fresh looking, some were just old clapped out 125s, but the kids riding them were having an absolute blast. It put a smile on my face.

The father of the 2 kids next to us (one on an early 2000s RM125, the other on an '06 YZ125) came over to chat. Not even a minute into the conversation we start talking about how much we love our 2 strokes and he said something along the lines of "I don't want to worry about fixing their bikes. They want to ride as much as possible and this is the way we can do that. They love their bikes and I don't need a mechanic to work on them!".

I'm going to continue hitting more tracks soon and I won't be surprised if I continue to see a good mix of 2 strokes (old and new). People are sick of the expense, but they still love to ride, and 2 strokes allow it. Sure this is just an example on a local level, but you can't tell me this isn't being felt across the entire industry. There needs to be a change, or we can all just continue to watch this sport to shrink and die.

Level out the classes (to fairly allow 2 strokes at the pro ranks) or give us an entirely new class. I've been reading about the 250f motor rebuilds here on Vital and all the expense involved (5 and 15 hour motors and such) and I find it absolutely ludicrous.

The Shop

Jrewing
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5/25/2017 10:50pm
Fast house gear.. I blame Moto-Fashion.. it's more important to look fast than be it!
SoCalMX70
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5/25/2017 10:55pm
Jrewing wrote:
Fast house gear.. I blame Moto-Fashion.. it's more important to look fast than be it!
I know you're joking (I think), but at least gear prices have stayed relatively stagnant for many years now... Still a very competitive market.

Also, I like Fast House. Don't own any, but I will. At the very least I'm buying my pops the Indian Dunes throwback jersey... Part of what got me into riding as a kid was hearing his stories of racing there.
jaredkeller96
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5/26/2017 1:30am
For the 250's. unmodified cylinder heads and standard compression ratios would cheapen things up some. No need for rocket fuel, custom cranks, pistons and rods etc...
For the 250's. unmodified cylinder heads and standard compression ratios would cheapen things up some. No need for rocket fuel, custom cranks, pistons and rods etc. Put a limit on the octane level of the fuel also.
And go back to production based suspension for the 250's. Production quality these days is practically equal to what was factory 10 or so years ago, and racing wasn't the worse for it back then
Octane limit? Lol. Mr pro 6 what most every national rider uses is around 89 octane.
fanger
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5/26/2017 3:55am
jbomx363 wrote:
43 entries 250's this week. With lack of a good purse (sure $70k, unless it went up this year, per event sounds like a lot...but..reality, not...
43 entries 250's this week.

With lack of a good purse (sure $70k, unless it went up this year, per event sounds like a lot...but..reality, not so much) are racers finally getting the idea that they just cannot make it?

Chasing the dream just can't pay the bills? Only way, for a 20-40 guy to make it is be on a team that pays all expenses, plus a small salary. Of course those teams, if their racer gets good enough to move to another team.. spent all that for what?

Is the sport pricing it out of itself?

Will AMA MX become the same as the GP's? Teams pay the racers on their teams bills, no purse?

Can a top local make more on local race money than in the Nationals? More money in AX and sit the outdoors out?

Risk vs reward not strong enough?

"Millennials" too lazy or no ambition and want everything handed to them that the top riders get? Sarcasm.. kind of.

"real" jobs are more important too them?

What is the reason for the low amount of entries?

GuyB wrote:
So you're saying they were dumb before?
Financially, hell yeah they're dumb.

As long as they have fun I spose.....
MR. X
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5/26/2017 3:57am
This could all be fixed by having a bone stock class ,sorry after market guys.
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steveada
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5/26/2017 4:49am
The reality is that as a professional sport matures, it naturally becomes more serious, more business like, and more exclusive. "Back in the day", players in the NFL had day jobs, did little to no training, mostly played because they loved the sport, and their performance was based primarily on raw talent. As it progressed to what it is today, all of that completely changed. Mx is going through the same changes. While theoretically open to anyone with a bike, $300, and enough talent to go fast on a dirtbike, you have no chance of being competitive without full time training, great equipment, and a large group of people to support your efforts .All of that takes a lot more money than 20th place purse money could ever realistically provide, no matter how high you try and make the purses. Maybe it is time to admit that if you aren't able to get yourself noticed and picked up by a team, it is an uphill battle. Personally I don't think the problem is decreasing entries at the pro level. I think the problem is at the local level. Maybe if all of these guys travelling around the country, sleeping in their vans, just fighting to qualify for a race would shift their focus to more local/regional series it would be better for the sport as a whole. What if instead of 2 or 3 pros at the local race 15 or 20 show up every week? Purses at these races would increase and exceed anything they could hope to get from a pro national race. Bigger purses and more upper level riders at the local/regional level I think would increase the interest and translate into more people getting into, and staying involved in the sport. To me, trying to think of ways to get more people who are not going to qualify anyway to show up at a race in a way kind of dumbs down the sport rather than elevates it. We would be better off if they went to "the minor leagues" to get noticed enough to get a ride that could give them a realistic shot at success.
LoudLove
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5/26/2017 4:58am
Along with higher performing bikes have come high-performance tracks with obstacles that require a full (and often dangerous) commitment. Jumps that 20 years ago would be considered extreme are now routine, but the penalty for poor execution remains the same.

4 strokes ushered in an era of technology that allows even the novice rider to execute (or at least attempt) massive launches. When tracks incorporate aggressive jumps into their design, it forces all riders to pull the trigger if they want to be competitive. Parents don't want to finance a hobby with that level of risk.

Have riders become "smarter"? Maybe not. Has racing become "dumber"? Perhaps the statistics speak for themselves.
5/26/2017 7:34am
Katoomey wrote:
Last time i checked, offroad racing wasn't any cheaper than moto. At least not at a high level, so...why is that segment growing?
To a degree yes, to a degree no. You will spend a lot on wheels, pipe/protectors of every kind, suspension testing, the same kind of stuff. But, to make a good offroad bike run, they aren't spending the same in motor work. It's not like a 250F national where if you don't have 50 HP, you aren't getting anywhere.

Offroad, you can make a stock motor work pretty well; it's about how you use the power, not the bulk of how much you have. Plus, for a manufacturer like KTM, you literally have 7 models to pick and choose from.

I've done both, enduro/hare scrambles and motocross. I've spent more money replacing bent and damaged parts from doing offroad, but have also divulged more money for tires, top ends and gas doing motocross. It's a total tradeoff, and neither one really "saves" money in the longterm, just one requires less diving into the motor.

I hope motocross does mix up their interests some; like running a stock class within the national class and payout some $$$ to make it a little more affordable for the privateers. Say 15 out of 40 spots are dedicated for that. Or, as others have mentioned, pickup like the EMX series and run a two stroke 125/250 class at half the rounds, payout at the end of the series. I don't see the AMA changing the 250 rules, simply for the fact manufacturers are spending so much money in R&D on these 4 strokes, and the last thing they want is an outdated and old tech two stroke to start placing well.
Canadad
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5/26/2017 8:21am
Canadad wrote:
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.
TeamGreen wrote:
I had a twin brother that was taken from my family at birth and sent to The Great White North.

I think I found him.
If you plan on attending any Canadian Nationals, let me know and we can get together and compare birth marks over a beer!
jeffro503
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5/26/2017 8:50am
Canadad wrote:
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.
TeamGreen wrote:
I had a twin brother that was taken from my family at birth and sent to The Great White North.

I think I found him.
Ok....that was just simply great! Canadad nailed it!
jeffro503
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5/26/2017 8:52am
For the 250's. unmodified cylinder heads and standard compression ratios would cheapen things up some. No need for rocket fuel, custom cranks, pistons and rods etc...
For the 250's. unmodified cylinder heads and standard compression ratios would cheapen things up some. No need for rocket fuel, custom cranks, pistons and rods etc. Put a limit on the octane level of the fuel also.
And go back to production based suspension for the 250's. Production quality these days is practically equal to what was factory 10 or so years ago, and racing wasn't the worse for it back then
Octane limit? Lol. Mr pro 6 what most every national rider uses is around 89 octane.
I've tried to tell this to a few different people , and they look at me like I'm crazy.
RhinoRider
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5/26/2017 8:55am
MR. X wrote:
This could all be fixed by having a bone stock class ,sorry after market guys.
The 250 or Lites class should be an OEM stock class. With 450s being the "F1" class. Or maybe even a OEM 450 Class, and a "Premier 450 Class"

If the OEMs really want to sell on Monday what wins on Sunday(Saturday), then Stock would be the way to sell your shit.

Grips, Graphics, tire choices, gearing, and suspension settings(With Stock OEM Parts) would be allowed. Stock engines and Pipes.

Now, Ryan Huffman the local Washougal guy, or whoever can line up next to anyone and be competitive. Even if he's a factory paid dude.

And Protests are Free. If the protester is Wrong, He pays the Non cheater say 1,000 for the time and cost of the tear down.

If the accused is caught, he pays the protestor the cheater bike. The whole bike.


JAC
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5/26/2017 9:19am
As the father of a privateer, the reason my son is not racing the nationals is 100% about money and support.

• The 12 rounds and long motos require more motors (and better motors) than Supercross.
• The races scattered across the country are a logistical problem for the rider and equipment.
• The logistics of either coast of Supercross are mush easier and less expensive in comparison.
• The weather associated with the outdoor season is tough without some kind of camper in the pits.
• In Supercross, the stadiums provide cover and some limited area for pitting.
• The support from sponsors is just not there. In Supercross, if you are fighting for the last 4 spots in the LCQ, the riders and their top sponsors get a lot of attention and TV time. At the Indianapolis SX, the announcers mentioned my kid's name 6 times in the LCQ. At Daytona, they mentioned his name 12 times in the Heat, and he didn't win either one of those races. In motocross, the guys running outside the top 5 or 10 are rarely mentioned. The average viewer doesn't care, but the sponsors care.




Joey
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5/26/2017 9:29am
MR. X wrote:
This could all be fixed by having a bone stock class ,sorry after market guys.
RhinoRider wrote:
The 250 or Lites class should be an OEM stock class. With 450s being the "F1" class. Or maybe even a OEM 450 Class, and a...
The 250 or Lites class should be an OEM stock class. With 450s being the "F1" class. Or maybe even a OEM 450 Class, and a "Premier 450 Class"

If the OEMs really want to sell on Monday what wins on Sunday(Saturday), then Stock would be the way to sell your shit.

Grips, Graphics, tire choices, gearing, and suspension settings(With Stock OEM Parts) would be allowed. Stock engines and Pipes.

Now, Ryan Huffman the local Washougal guy, or whoever can line up next to anyone and be competitive. Even if he's a factory paid dude.

And Protests are Free. If the protester is Wrong, He pays the Non cheater say 1,000 for the time and cost of the tear down.

If the accused is caught, he pays the protestor the cheater bike. The whole bike.


Good luck if you arent on a $20k Factory Special Limited Release 250 with this arrangement.
LoudLove
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5/26/2017 9:37am
Canadad wrote:
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe...
It's all about smaller testicles.....today's man is more prone to sitting at Starbucks with a hair bun surfing the internet for the latest vegan tofu recipe. He walks around in a pair of "fair trade" shoes made by an underprivileged family in Guatemala while carrying a man purse made with hemp grass and bamboo. If he even drives a car, it will be a Prius running on sunflower oil with a "Coexist" bumper sticker on the back. He practices hot yoga as his extreme sport and dreams of a home in the rainforest made from recycled materials. Masculinity is an evil force in this world and we must become more feminine. He believes that motorcycles are for knuckle dragging neanderthals who have no respect for their bodies or for the environment and racing is for small minded vitards like us.....its about smaller testicles.
TeamGreen wrote:
I had a twin brother that was taken from my family at birth and sent to The Great White North.

I think I found him.
jeffro503 wrote:
Ok....that was just simply great! Canadad nailed it!
The individuals described in Canadad's post have existed in every generation, and were never part of the MX demographic. Our sport is dominated by the "blue collar" workforce, which continues to see its earning dollar ripped apart by ever-increasing expenses. When $20K MX bikes don't fit the family budget, it reduces the number of potential racers, which results in fewer entries at the pro level.

For most privateers, racing is a passion. For many racers at the top echelon, it's a job. Even guys like RV, RC, and now Dungey admit that it became about the money. Race, get paid, go home. They just happened to be very, very good at their job, and may not have pursued it if not for the payoff.

Stick & ball sports are frequently seen as a way out of an otherwise dead-end existence. The massive paydays, even for bench-riders, create an enormous talent pool, where only the top percentage make it to the big leagues (sound familiar?). MX's cost of entry, along with a very limited number of financially-viable positions, does not offer the same "gold ticket" as traditional sports, so we're left with a very limited number of participants, and that number appears to be contracting.
greenmx5
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5/26/2017 9:42am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2017 9:48am
It was only a matter of time till it made its way to the pro ranks. When I started racing in the early 2000's, they would have to split the C class up into 2 groups because there were so many damn people. I went to a local race a few weeks ago and there was only one other guy along with myself in the +25 A class and they didn't even have anyone sign up for 250 and 450 A. C class had maybe 10-15 guys at most. And it wasn't just that it was a non popular track. This place would be over 800 entries 15 years ago. I've witnessed it. People just don't have the money to go do it like they used to.

On the other end of it, why would someone take the risk in our sport anymore? Your parents can go into 6 figure debt, max out the credit cards, and sell everything they own while you miss out on your youth... and for what? To take the gamble to be just one of only 5-10 guys in the whole f***in country to actually make a living in this sport? If you suffer a lifelong injury and can no longer race before you hit the big bikes, who's going to give a shit about you? Or what if you just burn out before you get to the big bikes and you're completely over it? Then your parents are stuck with enormous debt and you don't have a backup plan. Wise people don't take that gamble. Would you throw out your life long savings, house, and most of your possessions to buy a lottery ticket in hopes that you hit the powerball?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't take back anything I did, and neither would my parents. I was doing it before it got bad. I met some amazing people traveling the country and my heart is still in this sport 100%. I just don't like the direction that it's taken. Monster is a billion dollar company sponsoring our sport, and guys are making less than they ever did before. How many guys in the 80s and 90s retired before they were 28? Since then, we've lost RC, RV, and now Dungey before they even hit 30. We have to find a way to fix this.
Phillip_Lamb
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5/26/2017 9:47am
SoCalMX70 wrote:
So, I hit LACR this past weekend. First time on a track in over 8 years iirc. Alessi was there practicing on the vet track, which...
So, I hit LACR this past weekend. First time on a track in over 8 years iirc. Alessi was there practicing on the vet track, which was cool to see, but to the story...

My truck had 2 YZ250s in it, mine and my buddy's. Half the bikes at the track were 2 strokes... Some were fresh looking, some were just old clapped out 125s, but the kids riding them were having an absolute blast. It put a smile on my face.

The father of the 2 kids next to us (one on an early 2000s RM125, the other on an '06 YZ125) came over to chat. Not even a minute into the conversation we start talking about how much we love our 2 strokes and he said something along the lines of "I don't want to worry about fixing their bikes. They want to ride as much as possible and this is the way we can do that. They love their bikes and I don't need a mechanic to work on them!".

I'm going to continue hitting more tracks soon and I won't be surprised if I continue to see a good mix of 2 strokes (old and new). People are sick of the expense, but they still love to ride, and 2 strokes allow it. Sure this is just an example on a local level, but you can't tell me this isn't being felt across the entire industry. There needs to be a change, or we can all just continue to watch this sport to shrink and die.

Level out the classes (to fairly allow 2 strokes at the pro ranks) or give us an entirely new class. I've been reading about the 250f motor rebuilds here on Vital and all the expense involved (5 and 15 hour motors and such) and I find it absolutely ludicrous.
^^^this

last time i was out there had to be about a third of all bike were two strokes. its weird actually seeing that many, and it wasnt just slow old guys most of them were younger fast kids
jaredkeller96
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5/26/2017 9:48am
Once high point and east coast nationals roll around the entries will almost double I guarantee...there's more local guys that want to go out and say they raced a national etc. The west coast pros know they can make more money going elsewhere etc, there's more local pros on the east coast and there's not many places around that they can go make any money
5/26/2017 10:02am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2017 10:03am
500guy wrote:
I look at it like this, The GP's still have great racing and the 20 best guy's are still there. The rest either need to cut...
I look at it like this, The GP's still have great racing and the 20 best guy's are still there. The rest either need to cut the mustard or cut the cord.
That's because the GP's have chosen to focus on professional, team-based racing, despite everyone crying about the "little guy." This is the big leagues; the little guy (amateurs) shouldn't even be in the conversation.

At the pro level, the promoters should look for six factory teams (meaning at least 12 factory riders, maybe 14 or 15), then five or six sponsored independent/satellite teams that would get the field to around 30. That's exactly what MXGP tries to do, with teams like Massignani, Assomotor, Wilvo, JTECH and Hitachi helping fill out the field behind the six factory teams. (And Wilvo, as we know, has won an overall this year.)

MXGP still needs a couple more teams to ensure that they'll get 30 bikes at the fly-away races, but their model makes the most sense: offer a TV/streaming package, develop the TV audience, attract sponsors and build teams. You know ... like every other professional sport we can name that's not trapped in the 1970s.
Moto810
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5/26/2017 10:20am
Did you guys notice my posts on this thread was quietly removed? Note I never attacked anyone or any company. I only said like most that costs are the main reason for the decline in the sport. They also removed my posts from another thread about the same things. I am positive this was done by request of someone very high up in the sport. It is funny though.

I am positive no one on here saw me say anything rude or broke any rules.
PTECH
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5/26/2017 11:19am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2017 11:25am
twizzler wrote:
I know current national racers and past natty racers. Today the privateer racers say it's too expensive, too serious because to compete with the factory guys...
I know current national racers and past natty racers. Today the privateer racers say it's too expensive, too serious because to compete with the factory guys you have to train hard, eat better and basically run yourself ragged just to qualify in the back half. Once they do that they run out of money and burnout. Racing is not fun to them. Now they would rather buy a 450 and ride for fun locally practice and race. Or they give up altogether and find a job. Racers in the90's could pay $100 for a pro card. Take their 2 stroke to the track in back of their pick up and qualify and manage to run in the top 20. In the 80s-90s one could show up at LLs and run top 3 or even win a race or an overall in 125 or 250 pitting out of their pick up truck. LLs today is stacked with amateur paid pros with motor homes, trailers. It's just out of reach nowadays too many things have changed.
I think this is a great point actually, a lot of focus is being put on the put bikes but the riders have changed a lot too. Aside from being expensive, its too serious to make it worthwhile for a privateer. As we all know today's top level factory pro racer is a machine. There is no off season for these guys, they're training practically 24/7/365 with the best trainers and the best equipment. If you a privateer your bike cant hang and more importantly imo YOU cant hang with guys that can turn their fastest lap 29 minutes into a moto.
'
Someone made a comparison to the NFL and i think its a good one because its the same story. Look at old NFL film from the 60s and most the guys on that field are average size, todays NFL players are monsters, they would break those guys from back in the day in half.
downard254
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5/26/2017 11:32am
MR. X wrote:
This could all be fixed by having a bone stock class ,sorry after market guys.
Well, to loosen that requirement up just a tad, stock internals, but allow bolt on items. Well, I guess that would just mean exhaust. On that note, I'd love to see a single national where every bike on the track had to have a showroom stock motor, just to see how the results would vary. I know the factory boys would still be doing the winning, I'm just curious to see how more of the locals would do if the playing field was just a little more level.
PFitzG38
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5/26/2017 11:33am Edited Date/Time 5/26/2017 11:44am
First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race? Secondly you're saying that a top 5...
First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race?

Secondly you're saying that a top 5 guy cannot show up on a stock bike and compete? (Define stock) cause nobody that is racing is riding a stock bike and I know plenty of fast guys that can dial in a good suspension tune and still run with some of the top guys. It's not all about power, however these days with fuel injection it is much easier to obtain power than it has been in years past

Lastly, racers are able to run smokers if they choose to do so. However that would be a waist of time and money and run the risk of major injury trying to keep up with the brute power of the 4 stroke, most of these guys are running local series events that pay the way into the big shows like racing the outdoors. So why be on a bike that isn't going to be competitive

You have to rebuild that often because bikes wear out. No one in the 250 class can compete without heavy motor mods. On a 450 a pipe and a piston and your good to go. Not so on a 250
downard254
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5/26/2017 11:40am
First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race? Secondly you're saying that a top 5...
First off why would you need to rebuild a 250f or for that matter a 450 after every race?

Secondly you're saying that a top 5 guy cannot show up on a stock bike and compete? (Define stock) cause nobody that is racing is riding a stock bike and I know plenty of fast guys that can dial in a good suspension tune and still run with some of the top guys. It's not all about power, however these days with fuel injection it is much easier to obtain power than it has been in years past

Lastly, racers are able to run smokers if they choose to do so. However that would be a waist of time and money and run the risk of major injury trying to keep up with the brute power of the 4 stroke, most of these guys are running local series events that pay the way into the big shows like racing the outdoors. So why be on a bike that isn't going to be competitive

PFitzG38 wrote:
You have to rebuild that often because bikes wear out. No one in the 250 class can compete without heavy motor mods. On a 450 a...
You have to rebuild that often because bikes wear out. No one in the 250 class can compete without heavy motor mods. On a 450 a pipe and a piston and your good to go. Not so on a 250
If I'm not mistaken, didn't one of the magazines test a PC250 and they were told that the motors were built to last just 2 hrs. Is that right? Someone verify this for me could ya.
5/26/2017 11:43am
^^^this last time i was out there had to be about a third of all bike were two strokes. its weird actually seeing that many, and...
^^^this

last time i was out there had to be about a third of all bike were two strokes. its weird actually seeing that many, and it wasnt just slow old guys most of them were younger fast kids
I bumped into a kid I see ride quite often a few weeks ago, unloading a newish 250SX. The weeks prior I saw him riding a 16 YZ250F. When I asked him why he changed, he pulled out a receipt for what it cost to rebuild his blown YZ250F motor.

"It costs even more when your parents no longer can help out" was his response. Younger kids slowly learning and evolving that at the local level, if you really are a quality rider, you can ride just as fast (albeit takes some more skill, line choice has to be better and overall riding has to be smoother) on a 2T as a 4T, and if it blows up, won't cost you a kidney and first born child to rebuild it.
MR. X
Posts
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North Tonawanda, NY US
5/26/2017 12:50pm
MR. X wrote:
This could all be fixed by having a bone stock class ,sorry after market guys.
downard254 wrote:
Well, to loosen that requirement up just a tad, stock internals, but allow bolt on items. Well, I guess that would just mean exhaust. On that...
Well, to loosen that requirement up just a tad, stock internals, but allow bolt on items. Well, I guess that would just mean exhaust. On that note, I'd love to see a single national where every bike on the track had to have a showroom stock motor, just to see how the results would vary. I know the factory boys would still be doing the winning, I'm just curious to see how more of the locals would do if the playing field was just a little more level.
I'm sure the factory guys would still get a ton of testing compared to a nickle and dime guy which would separate the 2 types of racers before the gate even drops . It might be the kind of change that would bring in some riders that had the speed but couldn't swing equipment cost long enough to make it to the highest level of racing. Plus it would be cool to see exactly what the same bike we all own could do in the right hands.

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