Big Picture Analysis of Cooper Webb and Yamaha

observer
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1/18/2017 7:46am
Yep.....
Chad was going awfully fast on that Honda before the Chadapult happened.
He doesn't look near as fast in corners on that Yamaha as other brands I've seen him on.
1/18/2017 8:36am
Personally I just think his a tad miserable after his first couple of showings and is probably questioning himself a lot which doesn't help when it comes to racing.

Go back and watch the SD broadcast and look for this shot as his on the gate for his semi, says it all.
1/18/2017 8:58am
He was touted as the next big thing, and paid accordingly. The previous "next big thing" riders???

Ken Roczen: won Anaheim 1 in his rookie season and went on to win several more races



Ryan Dungey: won the title his rookie year:




So the question is "Is Cooper Webb really the next big thing?". He believes he is. Yamaha created a whole team around the kid, so they must think so. It's a long long season, and he will come around, but let's not pretend like his agent was going around telling people he was going to be in the "top 15" when negotiating his rookie 450 contracts.
buggz
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1/18/2017 9:00am
moto0852 wrote:
Can't be the bike...Keefer and Dirtrider say its the best bike made Smile LOL
No definitely the bike. Look how bad Ken did on that outdated heavy pig Suzuki

The Shop

moto317
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1/18/2017 9:00am
Yamaha needs decoster and dungey, both RD's should do this for shits and gigs as their retirement tour. they will go down as even bigger legends. First they save KTM, I'll admit I thought that was career suicide for dungey but mad props to them. Then they could figure out how to make that yamaha work because it seems yamaha is dead set on keeping it the way it is for the most part. Any other brand would have scrapped the whole idea and went back to the drawing board maybe to much pride?
1/18/2017 9:09am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 9:11am
My big picture analysis is he's either hurt or he has no confidence in the bike or both. The bike looks like it they have a little ways to go.

I'll add that I never expected him to be the next big thing, I expected him to be between a fifth and an eighth place Rider so to me he's not really that far off.
dean122
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1/18/2017 9:13am
OP needed to write himself a convincing story to put his mind at peace, but sadly it's all fiction. You can bet Yamaha brass thinks it's a rider issue. They've won shootouts, they won GPs and a championship in 2015, to them this bike is proven.

Sadly CR and CW will have to adapt to this pig with lipstick if they want to succeed in the coming years.
Forty
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1/18/2017 9:15am
UpTiTe wrote:
My big picture analysis is he's either hurt or he has no confidence in the bike or both. The bike looks like it they have a...
My big picture analysis is he's either hurt or he has no confidence in the bike or both. The bike looks like it they have a little ways to go.

I'll add that I never expected him to be the next big thing, I expected him to be between a fifth and an eighth place Rider so to me he's not really that far off.
He's hurt.

Bike is where it is...he's hurt.
moto317
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1/18/2017 9:23am
I wonder if Yamaha really does lure these guys in with promises of a new bike I kinda remember them promising James a new bike when he signed with JGR.
NVA57
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1/18/2017 9:25am
I wonder where the hype to bash the 450 YZ is coming from. I mean, did they really had a fair chance at a title or even race wins anyway? If you look at the bigger picture, then you'll see that no one's fire got extinguished when they switched to the new Yamaha. In my opinion it's reputation is a little skewed, and can only be judged once an obvious favourite struggles with the 450 YZ (e.g. Roczen, Dungey and co)
mikec265
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1/18/2017 9:46am
moto0852 wrote:
Can't be the bike...Keefer and Dirtrider say its the best bike made Smile LOL
They liked the motor and suspension.
I'd rather buy a better handling bike and have the suspension redone to be as good or better.
Steadman
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1/18/2017 9:50am
UpTiTe wrote:
My big picture analysis is he's either hurt or he has no confidence in the bike or both. The bike looks like it they have a...
My big picture analysis is he's either hurt or he has no confidence in the bike or both. The bike looks like it they have a little ways to go.

I'll add that I never expected him to be the next big thing, I expected him to be between a fifth and an eighth place Rider so to me he's not really that far off.
I'm going to agree with the first part here with UpTiTe. Webb is likely injured. He doesn't look anywhere near as fast or aggressive as he normally does.

As for the original poster writing, and I quote, "Cooper appearing to "struggle" on the current bike should not surprise anyone. In fact, it should be expected. I'll go one step further and say it was planned" I say no way no how. That is ridiculous.
early
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1/18/2017 10:06am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 10:07am
Steadman wrote:
I'm going to agree with the first part here with UpTiTe. Webb is likely injured. He doesn't look anywhere near as fast or aggressive as he...
I'm going to agree with the first part here with UpTiTe. Webb is likely injured. He doesn't look anywhere near as fast or aggressive as he normally does.

As for the original poster writing, and I quote, "Cooper appearing to "struggle" on the current bike should not surprise anyone. In fact, it should be expected. I'll go one step further and say it was planned" I say no way no how. That is ridiculous.
I dont know, riding around like there is a stranger under his helmet, accepting failure to make way for greater things, maybe Cooper is the second coming of Bradshaw? Wink
Steadman
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1/18/2017 10:55am
Steadman wrote:
I'm going to agree with the first part here with UpTiTe. Webb is likely injured. He doesn't look anywhere near as fast or aggressive as he...
I'm going to agree with the first part here with UpTiTe. Webb is likely injured. He doesn't look anywhere near as fast or aggressive as he normally does.

As for the original poster writing, and I quote, "Cooper appearing to "struggle" on the current bike should not surprise anyone. In fact, it should be expected. I'll go one step further and say it was planned" I say no way no how. That is ridiculous.
early wrote:
I dont know, riding around like there is a stranger under his helmet, accepting failure to make way for greater things, maybe Cooper is the second...
I dont know, riding around like there is a stranger under his helmet, accepting failure to make way for greater things, maybe Cooper is the second coming of Bradshaw? Wink
Oh man too early to be making THAT kind of comparison haha Laughing Maybe we can revisit that thought in 2-3 years?
gt80rider
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1/18/2017 11:32am
Coop is slower now than he was last year, and not just a little...

That could be a few things, but most likely an untold injury... You know damn well he doesn't wanna be riding around in tenth place, so motivation is Not it... It could be the bike, but he has rode the 450 well before, just not indoors... Any which way, I feel like the 16 coop could have taken a bone stock 450 and been at least as fast as he was last year...
motodriller
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1/18/2017 12:29pm
It looks to me like Reed stole his lunch money. Jk.
New year, new bike. He'll be fine.
peelout
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1/18/2017 12:55pm
big picture is i'm betting that neither Cooper nor Yamaha (hell, even Reed for that matter) are very happy with the results at the first two races.

i have no doubt he'll improve and it's not time to call it a loss, but i personally thought he'd be doing a lot better than 10th and 14th.
Katoomey
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1/18/2017 1:04pm
Lets just say the bike is the problem, at least for Webb. Wouldn't he have some idea prior to signing? Why would he want to struggle just to stay loyal to Yamaha? Surely he had options.
kiwifan
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1/18/2017 1:12pm
struth wrote:
Opposite ,still got speed in whoops,n struggling in corners,watch his heat last week,around ,3 mistakes in.corners.
Crush wrote:
Really? I think he's lost a yard in the whoops for sure... But I don't think it's cornering great... I think it's cornering better than last...
Really? I think he's lost a yard in the whoops for sure... But I don't think it's cornering great... I think it's cornering better than last year haha.

Wish he stayed red. I genuinely believe if he was 100% comfortable on the bike he could still do it. No way he has those podiums up Dungey's backside last year and he can't do it. Just needs to be comfortable.
kevin204 wrote:
Agreed. If he was on that new Honda or a KTM/Husky, things would be going much differently.
I think he would go ok on the Suzuki as well
joeellis
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1/18/2017 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 3:48pm
Strong field. Possible injury. A bike that could turn better. All possibilities. Within reason, Yamaha can certainly modify the bike to suit a riders likes. The chassis and geometry may be tweaked for next year so it rivals the other bikes. I don't see a great deal else that needs to change however. The engine creates massive power that can be tamed as needed, but it certainly doesn't turn as easily as the others. The inline stability of the Yami is wonderful though and because of these characteristics, I believe it works better outdoors on longer more open tracks. By creating this factory team, Yamaha (just like Honda) is probably tired of giving up even the slightest advantage to their competitors and with feedback from Reed and Webb will probably create a better all around bike.

A couple of observations on my part. Cooper will become much more comfortable and competitive over time, but I'm not convinced he will ever rival Roczen and/or Dungey. I hope he does. The more at the top creates better racing. Cooper is a very small guy. He's 5'-7" tops. I've met and stood next to him and I felt noticeably taller and I'm only 5'-10.5" tall. Logic tells us that shorter legs will be a hindrance in the whoops. Not that he isn't very good there, but a taller rider with equal talent should have an easier time.

There are other things going on imo. Possible injury, lost confidence, much stiffer competition, I don't know, but I don't feel it's all the bike. We're not talking stock machine. No, it may not turn as well as other bikes, but someone with Cooper's talent can overcome some (but probably not all) of this by steering more with the rear wheel. The kid has been on a bike since he was 3. He knows how to do this.
Adam43
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1/18/2017 4:15pm
Planned? Not at all. But Yamaha is probably starting to realize what they've paid for.

Webb battled the Martins, Savatgy, and Craig last year. Sure he was better, but not hugely so. Would anyone expect any of those guys to fight for Top 5s in 2017 450 Supercross?

The system of advancing riders out of the 250s makes the 450s a tough field, exacerbated by the fact that riders careers are lasting longer. It was never going to be easy for Webb, who is not a once in a generation talent.

Will he get better? Undoubtedly. But history tells us that if he's ever going to be a 450 supercross champion, he will need to improve quickly and register Top 5s in his first seaso.
Alex814
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1/18/2017 4:20pm
Yeah, I'm sure Cooper is saving himself to be healthy 10 months from now. Same thing he did this past summer after signing his 450 deal.
tempura
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1/18/2017 4:38pm
This is what his bike looks like with the plastics taken off..of course he's struggling...lol


1/18/2017 4:57pm
Tempura nailed it. If I was Cooper I would say my wrist was sore too....trying to go fast on that bucking blue pig is very dangerous. He's better off cruising around and playing it safe. That thing is vicious.
gsxr6
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1/18/2017 5:09pm Edited Date/Time 1/18/2017 5:09pm
Yamaha has had several recent years of top 450 sales in the us with the current model. Also, 2014 2015 2016 2017 four model years. Same as the 06 07 08 09 and 10 11 12 13. Four year model runs. So a new yzf is def due in 2018. And u can bet it will lose enough weight to slot in near Kawi and Honda.
gsxr6
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1/18/2017 5:22pm


gsxr6
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1/18/2017 5:31pm


gsxr6
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1/18/2017 5:40pm
The current Yamahas have been a runaway sales success fyi. And the 450 may as well be bomb proof they are so reliable.
MaxPower
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1/18/2017 5:57pm
Everything is going work out fine. Villopoto talks about it on the Pulp show, he was a fish out of water for first part of 2009...
Everything is going work out fine.

Villopoto talks about it on the Pulp show, he was a fish out of water for first part of 2009.

Takes time for some to adapt.

Dude is Cooper Webb, he will get it figured out.
I can't believe I've wasted my time reading this entire topic and only one person made sense.

History repeats itself
hillbilly
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1/18/2017 6:00pm
Damn,the stupidity in this thread.

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