Will Tomac be able to challenge Roczen once he gets up to speed?

APLMAN99
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7/19/2014 1:02pm
mx836 wrote:
Would Eli's first moto at Spring Creek today be considered a challenge to Roczen? Whistling
While I definitely think Tomac has equal speed to anyone currently in the field, it's hard to compare the goals of him and the other front runners right now. I think Roczen's only real goal is to finish ahead of Dungey more often than not, and if Tomac is going really fast there really isn't much reason to try to catch him or even stay with him.

If Roczen and Tomac were within 10 points of each other, everything would be completely different. Tomac may very well end up ahead, but it'd be a whole different set of circumstances that'd probably have each rider doing things that they might not do right now.
zook11
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7/19/2014 2:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2014 2:02pm
The real question is can Roczen challenge Tomac now that he's up to speed?
PTECH
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7/19/2014 3:31pm
Hahah going back to read what was posted in this thread about Tomac, there's lots of crow to be eaten!
dboivin
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7/19/2014 4:06pm
cool_hand wrote:
I don't see Eli battling with Roczen or any of the top 4-5 guys this season. Canard's momentum is growing, Stewart is back, and then you...
I don't see Eli battling with Roczen or any of the top 4-5 guys this season.

Canard's momentum is growing, Stewart is back, and then you got points leader KR..... and Dungey never goes away,..so no I think Eli has some real work cut out for himself, just to crack the top 5, for many races to come.
you mean like this guy? lol.

The Shop

7/19/2014 4:14pm
zook11 wrote:
The real question is can Roczen challenge Tomac now that he's up to speed?
He don't need.His focus is on Dungey.
IWreckALot
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7/19/2014 4:22pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
While I definitely think Tomac has equal speed to anyone currently in the field, it's hard to compare the goals of him and the other front...
While I definitely think Tomac has equal speed to anyone currently in the field, it's hard to compare the goals of him and the other front runners right now. I think Roczen's only real goal is to finish ahead of Dungey more often than not, and if Tomac is going really fast there really isn't much reason to try to catch him or even stay with him.

If Roczen and Tomac were within 10 points of each other, everything would be completely different. Tomac may very well end up ahead, but it'd be a whole different set of circumstances that'd probably have each rider doing things that they might not do right now.
You're absolutely right. Tomac rode great today. The only thing you can say is that Tomac out-rode Dungey who had more than enough motivation to win the motos and Dungey couldn't get the job done.

As a Tomac fan, this was a promising sign of what is to come hopefully. I think the series just got more interesting for sure.
slipdog
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7/19/2014 4:43pm
zook11 wrote:
The real question is can Roczen challenge Tomac now that he's up to speed?
He don't need.His focus is on Dungey.
Can we use that excuse if Herlings crushes Martin, Baggett and Webb at Unadilla?


Your friend,

Nervous American motocross fan
zook11
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7/19/2014 4:54pm
zook11 wrote:
The real question is can Roczen challenge Tomac now that he's up to speed?
He don't need.His focus is on Dungey.
Nah tomac has always been faster.
jeffro503
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7/19/2014 5:07pm
erikcrvjl wrote:
I think not.
How did that prediction work out for ya?
jeffro503
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7/19/2014 5:08pm
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
God i just love seeing dumb shits post shit like this haha!
WFO!
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7/19/2014 5:22pm
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
Where's the "Moron of Motocross"?

Talk about being so wrong it's laughable.
WFO!
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7/19/2014 5:24pm
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
zook11 wrote:
Reed on the pace this year.. "I don’t think that the pace is crazy; I don’t think guys are going faster than we’ve ever seen guys...
Reed on the pace this year.. "I don’t think that the pace is crazy; I don’t think guys are going faster than we’ve ever seen guys go."
Mmm that's interesting, but I believe reed over my own opinion of how fast those guys are going. Even if rv was there to hand Kroc...
Mmm that's interesting, but I believe reed over my own opinion of how fast those guys are going. Even if rv was there to hand Kroc his ass, tomac still wouldn't be able to hold roczens jock strap.
How about when he took it even further saying he couldnt hold K-roc's jock strap.

Stay in school fool.

Anybody who doubted Tomac doesnt know the sport and couldnt spot talent with a neon sign and a road map.
zehn
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7/19/2014 5:28pm
It was great to see Tomac charge hard for the win today. If only he could have raced the entire series.
Ing
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7/19/2014 6:22pm
Ing wrote:
Yes, ET will get up to speed. If he isn't already. Owned Roczen last year, most riders don't lose their natural talent and ET has it...
Yes, ET will get up to speed. If he isn't already. Owned Roczen last year, most riders don't lose their natural talent and ET has it in spades.
Just thought I'd bump this to the top and ask if you guys wanted to know anything else?
kevingent55
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7/19/2014 6:30pm
Tomac answered, case closed
Hut
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7/19/2014 7:02pm


chrisbuehler
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7/19/2014 7:04pm
zook11 wrote:
Nah tomac has always been faster.
X2. He decimated Roczen when the races got into the down and dirty last season. Not sure how you could think Tomac's style wasn't gonna translate to the 450? He's not this tiny 150lb kid. Pretty sure with the last name Tomac he trains like a beast too. He can handle hanging out a 450! Kenny's awesome too but is "only" gonna be Dungey to Eli's Villopoto. Eli is gonna own MX the only question is how his SX skills develop.
Antonioni
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7/19/2014 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2014 11:00pm
WFO! wrote:
How about when he took it even further saying he couldnt hold K-roc's jock strap. Stay in school fool. Anybody who doubted Tomac doesnt know the...
How about when he took it even further saying he couldnt hold K-roc's jock strap.

Stay in school fool.

Anybody who doubted Tomac doesnt know the sport and couldnt spot talent with a neon sign and a road map.
"Anybody who doubted Tomac doesnt know the sport and couldnt spot talent with a neon sign and a road map."

LOL! Priceless.

I think alike.
disbanded
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7/19/2014 10:24pm
I'm so happy right now
RbR
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7/19/2014 10:31pm
RbR wrote:
Not in the cards for Tomac this year. Roczen is the fastest 450 rider in series. Not that Roczen can't have an off day, though.
jtiger12
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7/20/2014 4:29am
Awesome first moto, with the exclamation point on number 2. Where are the critics now?
looneytune
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7/20/2014 4:56am
Imagine how much faster he would be on better bike? I read here the Honda's are the worst bike out there.
kongols
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7/20/2014 6:16am
You're only as good as your last race.
7/20/2014 6:20am
Im just wondering if tomac will be able to shake roczen up like he did on the 250's last year. It will be interesting to see how Kenny does the rest of the season.
sende
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7/20/2014 7:05am
I quote my own post from year and a half ago:

"I'm actually not a big Tomac fan, but here's the deal.. He may not be that fast yet, but you can see from the little things from the way he is riding that if anyone will take the speed to the "next level" it'll be him. RV is fastest right now, sure, but I predict that in a year or two Tomac will go through the hard sections of the MX or SX tracks faster than RV now, or anyone.. this will only happen of course if he stays healthy to improve and get better! We'll see!"
7/20/2014 8:15am Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 8:43am
If you indeed posted that 18 months ago...that was damned perceptive.

Tomac is a lot like RC...in that he just hits stuff faster and stays in control. His speed in many areas is one of pure athleticism and will. RC had the ability to do that because he worked harder than the other riders of his era. He changed the game.

Tomac grew up in that new paradigm. Everyone works hard now. We all talk about training as if all these guys can achieve the same level of fitness and strength by "putting in the work". Well that is BS. If it were true, we would not have elite level athletes that dominate in other sports.

I feel that Tomac is simply a superior natural athlete. AND he trains as hard as anyone else. The simple truth is no matter how hard KR and Dunge train, there may be sections of the track that they can not ride as fast as an equally hard training Tomac except for a lap or two. They will simply get too tired over a longer period at that speed. Tomac will hit stuff that choppy random stuff harder, and be able to handle the physical strain without tiring as much. (Blake Baggett is the other guy we have seen with this sort of physical ability to just go faster....but his wrist injury may have take the edge off his ultimate ability)

Tomac = gnarly. It is called genetics.

I also think this is why Tomac may not be as dominant in SX. In SX...you never get up to those super high speeds. The tracks stay smoother. With the exception of maybe Daytona...the sort of "just go faster" sections you see outdoors do not exist in SX. So that athletic advantage is not nearly as significant in SX. Tomac needs to build skills there to develop an advantage.
7/20/2014 10:57am
zook11 wrote:
Tomac was a little faster than Kenny the last 2 years, so he should be able to run his pace at some point.
Not a chance. Kroc would be the points leader even if rv was racing. It's simple, Kroc found another level that tomac will never reach.
jeffro503 wrote:
God i just love seeing dumb shits post shit like this haha!
x2 lol
watson
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7/20/2014 11:03am Edited Date/Time 7/20/2014 11:30am
If you indeed posted that 18 months ago...that was damned perceptive. Tomac is a lot like RC...in that he just hits stuff faster and stays in...
If you indeed posted that 18 months ago...that was damned perceptive.

Tomac is a lot like RC...in that he just hits stuff faster and stays in control. His speed in many areas is one of pure athleticism and will. RC had the ability to do that because he worked harder than the other riders of his era. He changed the game.

Tomac grew up in that new paradigm. Everyone works hard now. We all talk about training as if all these guys can achieve the same level of fitness and strength by "putting in the work". Well that is BS. If it were true, we would not have elite level athletes that dominate in other sports.

I feel that Tomac is simply a superior natural athlete. AND he trains as hard as anyone else. The simple truth is no matter how hard KR and Dunge train, there may be sections of the track that they can not ride as fast as an equally hard training Tomac except for a lap or two. They will simply get too tired over a longer period at that speed. Tomac will hit stuff that choppy random stuff harder, and be able to handle the physical strain without tiring as much. (Blake Baggett is the other guy we have seen with this sort of physical ability to just go faster....but his wrist injury may have take the edge off his ultimate ability)

Tomac = gnarly. It is called genetics.

I also think this is why Tomac may not be as dominant in SX. In SX...you never get up to those super high speeds. The tracks stay smoother. With the exception of maybe Daytona...the sort of "just go faster" sections you see outdoors do not exist in SX. So that athletic advantage is not nearly as significant in SX. Tomac needs to build skills there to develop an advantage.
I'd have to agree on all accounts. Most Exercise Physiologists believe that VO2 max ceilings and maximal anaerobic power ceilings are primarily determined by genetics, and no one can deny Eli's choice of parents in respect to that Wink
PTECH
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7/20/2014 11:15am
I think ET will figure out riding the 450 in SX soon enough. He was dominant on the 250 in SX! He won 13 250sx main events fer christ sakes. Realistically he could have been a 3 time regional champ, he missed out on the other 2 titles by 8 points combined in 2011 and 2013. He may not come out and smoke everyone at A1 this year but I think by the end of the series he just may be winning main events. I know there have been riders before who were excellent in the small bike class and never really panned out on the big bikes but I dont think Tomac is one of them.
IWreckALot
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7/20/2014 11:33am
kongols wrote:
You're only as good as your last race.
Ha this is what I'm thinking. I'm as big of a Tomac fan as you'll find. But dang everyone is acting like Roczen's one off race is the beginning of the end of his season. Wait a couple of races before writing him off.

His performance was questionable but give him a week to redeem himself at least.

I still stand by my statements earlier this season. Tomac will out-win Roczen in the long haul. It'll be interesting to see what happens when KRoc goes to Suzuki and if Tomac decides to go green or to another team.

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