USA team protested Australia

MxAddic
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10/9/2024 10:50am
3strokemx wrote:

The event promoter and/or their official /referee should enforce the rules of the competition.  

That is independent of a protest.

You sent a team and spent a shiton of money with national pride on the line, the circus clowns didn't do their job and it's a bitch move if you protest.

Got it.

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LungButter
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10/9/2024 10:51am
MxAddic wrote:
You sent a team and spent a shiton of money with national pride on the line, the circus clowns didn't do their job and it's a...

You sent a team and spent a shiton of money with national pride on the line, the circus clowns didn't do their job and it's a bitch move if you protest.

Got it.

Mother F&%$er..... I think I 100% agree with you on this.  Now what are we going to do?

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-MAVERICK-
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10/9/2024 10:56am
Elliot wrote:

.....or maybe they could get Lisa Leyland to wipe off the mesh. She's a dab hand at cleaning bathrooms.

 

GrapeApe wrote:

Man at first glance I really mis-read that product name, wow. lol

 

Clit bang. 😄

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Brent
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10/9/2024 11:00am

It’s InFront. It’s FIM. It’s pro racing. 

There is a 100% chance a fee is required to protest. 

Yup, €600 to file.

 

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The Shop

10/9/2024 11:16am

What has been the penalty for this infraction? Has it happened in a mxgp?

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1
10/9/2024 11:31am

THis reaks so much like a true Star move.

Can anyone give me the advantage maybe in length or time this infringement would have gained team Oz.

USA still salty over 1983 Americas cup loss.

Here's an easy fix. Anything behind the main round steel tube is free to do as you feel. Nothing in this area can be added. E.G starting chemicals / compounds or dirt etc.

Stooping this low is poor. Saying Australia would have done the same is a true cop out, trying to make this woeful protest seem legit.

 

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CPR
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10/9/2024 1:51pm

Quick thought- wouldn’t you think Prado, and his team, are more than aware of whether this is allowed by the FIM or not? If Prado did it too, he knows you can.

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ando
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10/9/2024 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 10/9/2024 2:16pm

Clearly the rule is not specific and open to interpretation.

If you listen to the podcast Team USA was given their interpretation by an FIM person in what appears to be a private meeting they arranged to go over all the rules.  It’s not clear whether that interpretation was communicated in the same way to all teams but I’m going to make a reasonable assumption that it wasn’t, on the basis that Team USA would have had a much stronger case and also that Hunter (and maybe Prado or others) probably wouldn’t have done what he did if that was the case.

My problem with this is not that they protested if a rule was broken.  It’s twofold:

1.  Filing a protest centred on a poorly written rule on the strength of a private interpretation that perhaps no-one else is privy to puts you on shaky ground.  As I said earlier I think the prudent thing to do would have been to seek further clarification then protest if appropriate.

2.  The nature of the action is so marginal in its perceived benefit that you open yourself up to questions of ethics and morals.  There were probably dozens of very minor rule infractions, as is the case at probably every motocross event.  Should they have protested Gasjer for cutting the track?

I think in the light of day and away from the pressure of the race some of the team will sit back and say that it was probably a poor judgement call to protest.

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10/9/2024 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 10/9/2024 2:16pm
mx_563 wrote:
Suppose the FIM docked Hunter a few spots and the USA ended up with a lower overall score and actually won the event. How would "we" feel...

Suppose the FIM docked Hunter a few spots and the USA ended up with a lower overall score and actually won the event. 

How would "we" feel about that? Asterisk? No Asterisk? Personally, I wouldn't want to win that way. 

A rule is a rule and I would expect Australia to do the same thing. However, Hunter was given permission, he did nothing wrong, so this is a case closed situation.  This is a FIM issue

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ando
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10/9/2024 2:19pm
CPR wrote:
Quick thought- wouldn’t you think Prado, and his team, are more than aware of whether this is allowed by the FIM or not? If Prado did...

Quick thought- wouldn’t you think Prado, and his team, are more than aware of whether this is allowed by the FIM or not? If Prado did it too, he knows you can.

That would have been my thought process - I know I was told one thing, but I’ve just seen the MXGP world champion and another top rider in the same class do something different, I might just go back and check.

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gerg
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10/9/2024 2:24pm

Am I reading this correctly?

Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even by disqualification?

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ando
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10/9/2024 2:27pm
gerg wrote:
Am I reading this correctly?Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even...

Am I reading this correctly?

Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even by disqualification?

Well yes, but for context USA were told they couldn’t do it.  Wording of the rule is not clear.

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1
10/9/2024 2:30pm
gerg wrote:
Am I reading this correctly?Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even...

Am I reading this correctly?

Team USA protested Hunter wiping his gate when he was given permission to do so, with the goal of winning the even by disqualification?

No, Team USA found out in the middle of moto 3 when they filed the protest that Hunter was given permission even though Team USA and a few others were told on Friday by the FIM the gates cannot be touched.  Either way Hunter did not cheat, and Team USA said as much after hearing from the FIM and they admitting they need to clear this up. The FIM is not consistent, and I don't know what to think of Prado of doing the same thing LOL 

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1
10/9/2024 3:43pm
Elliot wrote:
The rules are not clear.

The rules are not clear.

r 2
Crush wrote:
Seems pretty clear to me?If they're using the expanded metal set up, select your position from behind the starting area barrier. ie don't go walking around...

Seems pretty clear to me?

If they're using the expanded metal set up, select your position from behind the starting area barrier. ie don't go walking around near the gate, assumably to stop people fucking around with em.

If you're a team member, don't enter the start platform at all. So stand behind the rear-barrier.

At race time, riders can enter from behind the gate, to in front of the rear-barrier to prepare/clean/wipe, but no tools, power-washing or outside-help and don't touch the fuckin gate itself.

Where's the shrug emoji?

"At race time, riders can enter from behind the gate"

Nowhere in the rules does it state that, rule 53 states riders are not allowed to enter the start mesh platform...

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cmotodad
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10/9/2024 3:46pm

Proper communication equates to no misunderstandings

CASH476
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10/9/2024 4:04pm

I think they should be penalized. But only a few points. 4 seems like a good and fair number. 

Sounds very reasonable 😆 

Crush
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10/9/2024 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/9/2024 4:10pm
Rosso391 wrote:

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

Crush wrote:

The rules say you're allowed to wipe the grate, not the gate. Which as per Paul is what Hunter did.

GrapeApe wrote:
Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and...

Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and team members are not allowed to enter.

I'm not advocating for the protest, just curious about the rules. Why weren't all of the GP regulars out there with towels drying their grates if it's legal?

See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:

"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed to touch or drop the starting gate when preparing their start position...(ie don't touch the fucking backwards falling gate)"

👍

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10/9/2024 4:24pm
Crush wrote:

The rules say you're allowed to wipe the grate, not the gate. Which as per Paul is what Hunter did.

GrapeApe wrote:
Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and...

Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and team members are not allowed to enter.

I'm not advocating for the protest, just curious about the rules. Why weren't all of the GP regulars out there with towels drying their grates if it's legal?

Crush wrote:
See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed...

See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:

"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed to touch or drop the starting gate when preparing their start position...(ie don't touch the fucking backwards falling gate)"

👍

The rules do not say that, if the start mesh platform is used grooming is not permitted.

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rhysthomas
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10/9/2024 5:09pm

weak as piss

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MxAddic
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10/9/2024 5:30pm

I got a coupe questions. Was Hunter told it was OK to wipe the gate before or after he did it? Why did he ask if he could do it when its clear in the rules you cannot?

😁

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ando
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10/9/2024 5:53pm
MxAddic wrote:
I got a coupe questions. Was Hunter told it was OK to wipe the gate before or after he did it? Why did he ask if...

I got a coupe questions. Was Hunter told it was OK to wipe the gate before or after he did it? Why did he ask if he could do it when its clear in the rules you cannot?

😁

The item in question is the grate, not the gate.

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rileymx
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10/9/2024 5:57pm

the truth is, i am not surprised........but i feel bad for Eli, e raced one hell of a race, third best of the race, teamUSA got 2nd and he looked proud on the podium........i dont think he deserved to be used in this tactics, he showed the world of motocross he is one of the greats and he got his recognition from that world, he doesnt need this .....

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10/9/2024 6:00pm
rileymx wrote:
the truth is, i am not surprised........but i feel bad for Eli, e raced one hell of a race, third best of the race, teamUSA got...

the truth is, i am not surprised........but i feel bad for Eli, e raced one hell of a race, third best of the race, teamUSA got 2nd and he looked proud on the podium........i dont think he deserved to be used in this tactics, he showed the world of motocross he is one of the greats and he got his recognition from that world, he doesnt need this .....

I feel bad for Eli, he was disadvantaged by not wiping his starting grate...

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Crush
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10/9/2024 6:31pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and...

Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and team members are not allowed to enter.

I'm not advocating for the protest, just curious about the rules. Why weren't all of the GP regulars out there with towels drying their grates if it's legal?

Crush wrote:
See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed...

See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:

"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed to touch or drop the starting gate when preparing their start position...(ie don't touch the fucking backwards falling gate)"

👍

The rules do not say that, if the start mesh platform is used grooming is not permitted.

No, it doesn't say grooming is not permitted. It says nothing about grooming. As in they've assumed grooming wouldn't be needed. It just says don't touch the gate. And the allegation is Hunter cleaned the grate, not the gate.

So in the case that it does, ie roost from a muddy track landing on the grate, why would they deviate from the process that has always existed, before mesh, as currently does without, which is you can prepare behind the gate and you can't touch the gate?

 

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DownSouth
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10/9/2024 6:36pm

If only 2 guys cleaned the grates it seems like most teams and riders thought it was something they could not do.  If it were A-OK everyone would have been doing it.

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Press516
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10/9/2024 6:42pm

I think we can all expect a clarification in the rules next year.

And just for the integrity of the sport, if you see something that you think is potentially a rules violation, you should have it investigated.  

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gerg
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10/9/2024 6:53pm

Disqualify Australia and exclude them from 2025 MXDN IMO.

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10/9/2024 7:28pm
MxAddic wrote:
I got a coupe questions. Was Hunter told it was OK to wipe the gate before or after he did it? Why did he ask if...

I got a coupe questions. Was Hunter told it was OK to wipe the gate before or after he did it? Why did he ask if he could do it when its clear in the rules you cannot?

😁

He asked if he could wipe the GRATE. Not the GATE. 

He obviously asked because as we can see by this thread the rules are as clear as mud. If in doubt. Just ask for clarification. 
 

aeffertz
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10/9/2024 8:06pm
Crush wrote:
See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed...

See Elliot's screen cap of the rules above:

"...Riders may groom their place behind the starting gate (ie the expanded mesh gRate)... Riders are not allowed to touch or drop the starting gate when preparing their start position...(ie don't touch the fucking backwards falling gate)"

👍

The rules do not say that, if the start mesh platform is used grooming is not permitted.

Crush wrote:
No, it doesn't say grooming is not permitted. It says nothing about grooming. As in they've assumed grooming wouldn't be needed. It just says don't touch...

No, it doesn't say grooming is not permitted. It says nothing about grooming. As in they've assumed grooming wouldn't be needed. It just says don't touch the gate. And the allegation is Hunter cleaned the grate, not the gate.

So in the case that it does, ie roost from a muddy track landing on the grate, why would they deviate from the process that has always existed, before mesh, as currently does without, which is you can prepare behind the gate and you can't touch the gate?

 

The part you're forgetting is that Team USA asked if they could clean/prep the grate before the race and were told no but Hunter was told he was allowed to. It just seems like a communication issue or the governing body not knowing their own rules, probably both.

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