brand new pw50 dealer fees.

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1/24/2019 7:29 PM

Looking for experience from anyone who has bought a pw50 new from the dealer. Every new bike I’ve bought they try to get you with the fees and a sob story but they end up getting dropped because everyone knows it’s BS. I’ve been calling around to everyone with a pw50 and nobody will budge on the shipping charge of about 150-200$. Same old story...small margins, they’ll lose money if they drop the fees, etc. maybe it is legit with a bike that’s only 1500$ ?
Anybody ever buy one and was able to get a deal?


For your time...

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1/24/2019 7:31 PM

There really is zero profit on them.

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1/24/2019 7:33 PM

GasGasOrAss wrote:

Looking for experience from anyone who has bought a pw50 new from the dealer. Every new bike I’ve bought they try to get you with the fees and a sob story but they end up getting dropped because everyone knows it’s BS. I’ve been calling around to everyone with a pw50 and nobody will budge on the shipping charge of about 150-200$. Same old story...small margins, they’ll lose money if they drop the fees, etc. maybe it is legit with a bike that’s only 1500$ ?
Anybody ever buy one and was able to get a deal?


For your time...

This guy knows how to post

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1/24/2019 7:52 PM

I've bought a lot of new full sized MX bikes and I never pay the freight/set-up/doc fees. Never.

I've now bought 2 PWs and I paid the fees both times. I was pist! They won't budge on this it seems.

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'19 CRF250R
'18 250SXF
'18 CRF50
'15 PW 50
STACYC 16eDrive

1/24/2019 7:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2019 7:58 PM

As someone who works in a dealer, there really is no profit at all. Maybe 200 total profit a bike. If that. And yes the dealers actually have to pay the shipping charge.
Think about this. You don’t go into Walmart asking for discounts just because you know they get it cheaper. Without those small fees, there wouldn’t be a dealer here for you to bitch about the price. With how things are, we practically lose money on most dirt bike sells, but we know that those customers buy gear and all kinds of other parts. But again, that’s the convenience of a dealer that would not be there without charges.
I highly doubt you have actually ever seen the invoice of what these bikes cost. I see them practically every day, and it’s scary. As a moto guy, it hurts. I hate having to pay so damn much for a bike, but i still do it

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1/24/2019 8:17 PM

Oh, and in before someone comes along and tells you to buy one off CL for 100 bux; clean the carb, throw a new throttle cable on, let your kids ride it for 10 years and then sell for $600.

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'19 CRF250R
'18 250SXF
'18 CRF50
'15 PW 50
STACYC 16eDrive

1/24/2019 8:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2019 8:21 PM

ianhendry946 wrote:

As someone who works in a dealer, there really is no profit at all. Maybe 200 total profit a bike. If that. And yes the dealers actually have to pay the shipping charge.
Think about this. You don’t go into Walmart asking for discounts just because you know they get it cheaper. Without those small fees, there wouldn’t be a dealer here for you to bitch about the price. With how things are, we practically lose money on most dirt bike sells, but we know that those customers buy gear and all kinds of other parts. But again, that’s the convenience of a dealer that would not be there without charges.
I highly doubt you have actually ever seen the invoice of what these bikes cost. I see them practically every day, and it’s scary. As a moto guy, it hurts. I hate having to pay so damn much for a bike, but i still do it

As someone who works in a dealer can you confirm that after the dealer sells a bike the dealer gets rebates from the manufacturer that cover the shipping that they originally paid and the set up fee that the dealer pays their tech to put on a front wheel as well as other rebates? I’ve heard this from a few people that work at dealerships. Is it true?

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1/24/2019 8:37 PM

All I can say is I worked in sales at many dealers over a 20 yr period and anytime a customer was even looking at a PW 50, JR 50, SX 50 or any other kids bike and especially ATV, I would immediately hide in the parts dept, service dept, or hop on the forklift in the wharehouse. Trust me when I say these are by faaaaar the worst moments of being a Powersports salesman. And by the way, dads are even cheaper when it comes to their kids than they are for themselves. And you'd think every flippin' one of them won a national.

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THERE IS NO SECOND MOTO IN LIFE!

1/24/2019 8:39 PM

Man, dealers shouldn’t make any profit.
Cause they’re just gonna line their posckets and drive off in their Bentley after they rip a guy off...

Wish I would have become a dealer before all the bike shops got snatched up, dang.

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1/24/2019 8:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 1/24/2019 8:43 PM

Highflier wrote:

Man, dealers shouldn’t make any profit.
Cause they’re just gonna line their posckets and drive off in their Bentley after they rip a guy off...

Wish I would have become a dealer before all the bike shops got snatched up, dang.

Bernie Sanders says! What a moroon.

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THERE IS NO SECOND MOTO IN LIFE!

1/24/2019 8:57 PM

ianhendry946 wrote:

As someone who works in a dealer, there really is no profit at all. Maybe 200 total profit a bike. If that. And yes the dealers actually have to pay the shipping charge.
Think about this. You don’t go into Walmart asking for discounts just because you know they get it cheaper. Without those small fees, there wouldn’t be a dealer here for you to bitch about the price. With how things are, we practically lose money on most dirt bike sells, but we know that those customers buy gear and all kinds of other parts. But again, that’s the convenience of a dealer that would not be there without charges.
I highly doubt you have actually ever seen the invoice of what these bikes cost. I see them practically every day, and it’s scary. As a moto guy, it hurts. I hate having to pay so damn much for a bike, but i still do it

Invoice price isn't a real number anymore. It's just a marketing tool to make the weak minded feel like they're getting a price so good that there's no room to negotiate.

No business owner is going to fork out thousands upon thousands of dollars for something with such a small return on investment. You can believe that or choose to keep your head buried in the sand, but it's just the way the world works.

Strangely enough, I feel like sometimes the salesmen selling these things are the most oblivious of them all.

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1/24/2019 10:17 PM

Sir Roostsalot wrote:

All I can say is I worked in sales at many dealers over a 20 yr period and anytime a customer was even looking at a PW 50, JR 50, SX 50 or any other kids bike and especially ATV, I would immediately hide in the parts dept, service dept, or hop on the forklift in the wharehouse. Trust me when I say these are by faaaaar the worst moments of being a Powersports salesman. And by the way, dads are even cheaper when it comes to their kids than they are for themselves. And you'd think every flippin' one of them won a national.

Accurate.

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1/25/2019 12:01 AM

I may not be in motorcycle sales but I’ve been in sales for 20 years, and if I know something it’s you need to make money to stay in business. I know when I sell something I need to try to make at least 20% profit margin, it’s how we keep the doors open. So I have a hard time believing dealerships lose money on bikes. I would have to assume the manufactures have monthly rebates to help offset the BS numbers they show to customers as “this is my cost”. Otherwise there would be no dealerships around to sell bikes for the manufactures, and last time I checked there’s no internet direct business models for motorcycle manufactures.

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1/25/2019 12:23 AM

The Industry standard is that most powersports stores operate on 2-2.5% Profit after sales. For simple math a 10 million dollar a year dealer will net 250k on that 10 Million after paying all the bills, payroll, floor plan, sales tax, etc. There is way more that goes into running a store and yeah the fees help keep the doors open. A mechanics time is worth whatever that shop charges an hour for labor so there is a true cost that goes into putting these things together. Sales keeps the doors open and most dealerships profit comes from the service department.

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1/25/2019 12:40 AM

Bought my son a 2018 pw50 in July. Paid $1940 out the door for it after originally being quoted $2200. All I did was ask if they had some sort of rider support program as we’d love to ride for the shop and the guy called me back and said unfortunately they weren’t doing any support for moto, only sportbikes but that they would help me out with the price. Went in two days later and bought it. I don’t remember what the fees were, but I’ll try to find the paperwork.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, O'Neal, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

1/25/2019 1:39 AM

The dealer might not make much on them but Yamaha is. They haven’t changed any thing but color for how many years now ? 35-40 ?

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1/25/2019 2:19 AM

Margins may be small but hook me up or at least make me feel like I got a deal and I’ll come back and buy a 65/85 in a few years. Make me pay full price and I have no commitment to that dealer.

Years ago a dealer gave us a steal on a XR100, been using that same dealer for 20 years now even though there are several others that are cheaper.

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1/25/2019 3:48 AM

ianhendry946 wrote:

As someone who works in a dealer, there really is no profit at all. Maybe 200 total profit a bike. If that. And yes the dealers actually have to pay the shipping charge.
Think about this. You don’t go into Walmart asking for discounts just because you know they get it cheaper. Without those small fees, there wouldn’t be a dealer here for you to bitch about the price. With how things are, we practically lose money on most dirt bike sells, but we know that those customers buy gear and all kinds of other parts. But again, that’s the convenience of a dealer that would not be there without charges.
I highly doubt you have actually ever seen the invoice of what these bikes cost. I see them practically every day, and it’s scary. As a moto guy, it hurts. I hate having to pay so damn much for a bike, but i still do it

Very well said. My brother is a longtime multi line dealer here. Very little money in mx bikes. Especially the little ones.
Please remember, profit is not a dirty word.

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1/25/2019 4:01 AM

I just want him to ask another prepaid question

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I was G before the "moto drive" to Vital

1/25/2019 4:04 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/25/2019 4:06 AM

I work as a full time artist and the culture in that is entirely different. I think that folks who grow up around motors, buying and selling used, play the haggling game so often that they forget that their money is essentially a vote of who and what they support.

In art, we pay full price to support people in the industry we are a part of to help them make a living. When you try to undercut people in your own industry, it only hurts your cause. I’m not saying dealerships don’t make any money, but they’re not making a killing like they used to. And every post on here that says “you can’t make a living in the industry”....that’s in part because the culture in moto is to nickel and dime the small guy.

A lot of the local folks who ride moto have solid careers and the 200 bucks to them literally means nothing but pride. To the dealership, shaving off 200 bucks everytime they make a sale is the difference between closing up shop or you having options down the street from you.

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1/25/2019 4:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/25/2019 4:50 AM

MotoGUY wrote:

The Industry standard is that most powersports stores operate on 2-2.5% Profit after sales. For simple math a 10 million dollar a year dealer will net 250k on that 10 Million after paying all the bills, payroll, floor plan, sales tax, etc. There is way more that goes into running a store and yeah the fees help keep the doors open. A mechanics time is worth whatever that shop charges an hour for labor so there is a true cost that goes into putting these things together. Sales keeps the doors open and most dealerships profit comes from the service department.

Yep this is so true.
My family started in the business in 1974 with Suzuki, then added Kawi and Polaris later on. Bikes had decent margins back then, I know, I worked there until 1981. Over the years margins got worse as OEM's tried to to keep the msrp's down.

Now, in today's marketplace with internet prices, it's much harder to make anything on an mx bike. Couple that with the fact many mx riders buy gear and parts from online stores, and you can see how little they make on them.
My brother carries them because he has a few loyal customers that ride and race. Plus, he's always been into moto.

He would be the first to tell you, he could stop carrying mx bikes tomorrow and it would have zero affect on his bottom line. Now, do some dealers get carried away with fee's? Yes, for sure.

That said, all you guys that have never worked in a shop and think you know anything about making money in the motorcycle business are full of s**t.

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1/25/2019 4:08 AM

Its funny how people think businesses should cut them a deal to save them money. Theyre there to make money and NO other reason. No business wants to help you. Period. Regardless of the “act” they put on.

Bikes cost what they cost. Dont want to pay $200 for shipping? Then buy used. Pw50s havent changed much if at all in years. What difference does it make to a 5 year old?

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1/25/2019 4:44 AM

kb228 wrote:

Its funny how people think businesses should cut them a deal to save them money. Theyre there to make money and NO other reason. No business wants to help you. Period. Regardless of the “act” they put on.

Bikes cost what they cost. Dont want to pay $200 for shipping? Then buy used. Pw50s havent changed much if at all in years. What difference does it make to a 5 year old?

I bought a brand new 2017 PW50 back in april 2018, the '18 werent out yet in canada at this time. I paid 1802.16CDN (1352,50USD).

I didnt pay the shipping/assembly/tech inspection fee, i think it was 275$ total.

I ended up buying my KTM there because of the great service couple months later.




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2002 KX125 (SOLD)/2001 KX250 (SOLD)
1999 KX250 (SOLD)
2016 RM-Z250(SOLD)
2018 KTM 150XC-W(current)

1/25/2019 4:56 AM

I'm a rarity I guess. I bought an RMZ, the dealer had it knocked down to a very fair price, never had to haggle. The owners of the dealership still race moto, have a full line of Answer, Fox and Fly gear...I buy almost everything from them. Oil, filters, gear, boots, tear offs, chain and sprockets, tires etc...I don't mind supporting my local dealer. They need to make a living as well and they sell for only a little more than internet pricing. I can live with paying ten dollars more for my gear than buying on line.

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1/25/2019 5:58 AM

Smaller the bike the smaller the margin, dealerships don't make shit on dirt bike sales. People nowadays just don't get it when it comes to purchasing a bike from the local dealer. To ask for a "deal" on a pw50 is pretty idiotic. If you don't have the money to buy full retail don't go looking for a new bike, buy a used one. I used to think dealerships make out on bike sales until I started working at one and seeing the paper work. The only way dealers are profiting money is by selling online

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1/25/2019 6:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/25/2019 6:24 AM

Might get bashed for this, but I wouldn't buy a new PW 50. My cousin bought one a few years back, I was shocked at how much he paid for a freaking PW 50. Buy a used one, save the difference for the kid's college/tech school, or first full size bike.

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1/25/2019 6:20 AM

All of you that work at dealers but haven’t commented on my question... dealers get rebates from the manufacturer for those fees that they charge the customers, no? So The dealer is basically bullshitting the customer into paying extra money? This is ok by your standards but it is not ok for someone to not want to pay these fees?
A salesman’s job is literally to lie and con people into paying as much money as possible, more than they realistically should, but it’s unaccaptable for the customer to not want to be scammed?

As for customer loyalty, maybe you would have more loyal customers by being straightforward with them. People can buy anything online cheaper than they can in a shop. Anything. I go into my local shop for everything because they didn’t BS me with fees when I buy bikes.

Back on topic, it seems like most people are paying some fees on a pw50 because the profit margin is smaller, which is what I came to ask. Thanks.

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1/25/2019 6:25 AM

mx 219 wrote:

Might get bashed for this, but I wouldn't buy a new PW 50. My cousin bought one a few years back, I was shocked at how much he paid for a freaking PW 50. Buy a used one, save the difference for the kid's college/tech school, or first full size bike.

I’ve been trying to find one. A used one around me is 800-1000$ for a 15-20 year old bike if it looks good and they sell. Factoring in that price with things that I will have to do to the bike which probably haven’t been done and I might as well by a new one, take proper care of it, and sell it in 3 years when my kids outgrow it m

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1/25/2019 6:31 AM

jbrown15 wrote:

I may not be in motorcycle sales but I’ve been in sales for 20 years, and if I know something it’s you need to make money to stay in business. I know when I sell something I need to try to make at least 20% profit margin, it’s how we keep the doors open. So I have a hard time believing dealerships lose money on bikes. I would have to assume the manufactures have monthly rebates to help offset the BS numbers they show to customers as “this is my cost”. Otherwise there would be no dealerships around to sell bikes for the manufactures, and last time I checked there’s no internet direct business models for motorcycle manufactures.

In what other industry (besides cars) does a business TELL YOU what they paid for something and then offer to sell it to you at cost or just above cost? Business doesn't work that way and it's funny to me how so many people are convinced that this one is the exception.

People really think that these dealerships, some of them with millions of dollars in overhead, are going to take all of the risks of being in business for 2% margins? That's laugh out loud funny. Common sense should tell people that those numbers don't add up but apparently everyone that ever sold spark plugs at a dealership had access to the books and can verify that the owners weren't making anything!

Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely for businesses making money which is why I'd much rather them just come out and say "This is how we put food on the table" rather than feed me the "We aren't making a dime on this sale" bullshit. I find it insulting.

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1/25/2019 6:45 AM

soopah noviss wrote:

Oh, and in before someone comes along and tells you to buy one off CL for 100 bux; clean the carb, throw a new throttle cable on, let your kids ride it for 10 years and then sell for $600.

Sad thing is now all the CL pdubs are $600-$800, for 15-18 yr old bikes!!

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