Very Large Jumps

m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16
Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 2:58pm
Some recently have started to come out and say local mx tracks have way to big of jumps including some pro riders like Canard commenting that the risk factor isn't worth it especially if you have a wife and kids to go home to. I hope this goes somewhere as I agree, I like jumps its my favorite part of riding but most riders are C and some B class and with huge jumps there is no point and even some A riders will tell you that hitting huge jumps just aren't worth the risk sometimes, its really past having fun at that point. Today someone came out and rode with me at a track and they said they were getting married and didn't want to do some of the jumps he could normally do just because he knew he couldn't crash or he would ruin plans and told me about how he broke so many bones just over one single jump on so many different occasions.
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Ron_Shuler
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Ron_Shuler 8/27/2017 3:35pm
8/27/2017 3:35pm
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or you just don't want to risk it anymore. Some of the tracks I have been going to lately it's been very obvious that every one is on the Vet track and maybe 10 people are riding the Main track with the big jumps, the funny thing is you would think the people running these tracks would get a clue.
bvm111
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bvm111 8/27/2017 3:45pm
8/27/2017 3:45pm
I am lucky the track I ride at does a good job of making options so if you want to be a hero you can be... but us Vets can also roll the stuff and not be a complete hazard to each other. I still look back a couple times to be sure before I double and roll the triple step up over thing!
pdub187
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pdub187 8/27/2017 4:22pm
8/27/2017 4:22pm
I mostly ride the sand track and corner tracks where I ride now. I'm thirty years old and have to go to work on Monday. The risk that comes from hitting the massive jumps just doesn't do it for me anymore. I already have a dodgy lower back, flogged wrists and shitty ankles after doing this for 27 years. The risk is still there on the smaller jumps and even in railing turns but I just feel a bit more comfortable riding slightly within myself on the less intense tracks. On huge obstacles there's no option other than sending it.
gt80rider
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gt80rider 8/27/2017 4:58pm
8/27/2017 4:58pm
Ron_Shuler wrote:
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or...
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or you just don't want to risk it anymore. Some of the tracks I have been going to lately it's been very obvious that every one is on the Vet track and maybe 10 people are riding the Main track with the big jumps, the funny thing is you would think the people running these tracks would get a clue.
This is truth, well said

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m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16 8/27/2017 5:13pm
8/27/2017 5:13pm
Ron_Shuler wrote:
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or...
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or you just don't want to risk it anymore. Some of the tracks I have been going to lately it's been very obvious that every one is on the Vet track and maybe 10 people are riding the Main track with the big jumps, the funny thing is you would think the people running these tracks would get a clue.
Im glad someone gets it, jumps are fun but past a certain point jumps become more scetchy and not so much worth it.
m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16 8/27/2017 5:15pm
8/27/2017 5:15pm
pdub187 wrote:
I mostly ride the sand track and corner tracks where I ride now. I'm thirty years old and have to go to work on Monday. The...
I mostly ride the sand track and corner tracks where I ride now. I'm thirty years old and have to go to work on Monday. The risk that comes from hitting the massive jumps just doesn't do it for me anymore. I already have a dodgy lower back, flogged wrists and shitty ankles after doing this for 27 years. The risk is still there on the smaller jumps and even in railing turns but I just feel a bit more comfortable riding slightly within myself on the less intense tracks. On huge obstacles there's no option other than sending it.
Yea but smaller jumps you must admit you have a much bigger chance of getting up compared to a huge 90 foot uphill triple esspressially with the right gear on.
TheLsho 8/27/2017 5:21pm
8/27/2017 5:21pm
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe alternative if they don't want to. That being said, I hadn't ridden for ten years and I grew up in an era of doubles, triples, and whoops on almost every track. Where I live now the only time I ride a public track that has obstacles that beginners can't do is in Arenacross. There are no separators anymore. For me it bums me out because I like riding technical jumps and having features to strive for. When there is nothing to look forward too besides corner speed it does take some of the fun out. So if you have tracks with good jumps and hard features, I am jealous and be grateful you're not living somewhere with no options.
McDuff
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McDuff 8/27/2017 5:23pm
8/27/2017 5:23pm


BobPA
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BobPA 8/27/2017 5:30pm
8/27/2017 5:30pm
TheLsho wrote:
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe...
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe alternative if they don't want to. That being said, I hadn't ridden for ten years and I grew up in an era of doubles, triples, and whoops on almost every track. Where I live now the only time I ride a public track that has obstacles that beginners can't do is in Arenacross. There are no separators anymore. For me it bums me out because I like riding technical jumps and having features to strive for. When there is nothing to look forward too besides corner speed it does take some of the fun out. So if you have tracks with good jumps and hard features, I am jealous and be grateful you're not living somewhere with no options.
This
ToolMaker 8/27/2017 5:41pm
8/27/2017 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 5:42pm
All jumps are the perfect size right up till they're not. I don't know where the size limit
is for responsible track owners but something tells me that 5 years from now the obstacles
will be even bigger.
As long as kids want to brag to their friends, they will keep hitting bigger jumps.
And I say kids because I don't think people think of the safety aspect until they
become responsible for others, such as being married or a parent.
TM
yak651
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yak651 8/27/2017 5:46pm
8/27/2017 5:46pm
I don't mind big jumps out of a corner with steep faces that shoot you up. What i don't care for a large jumps you have to hit pinned 4th gear to clear. Just too many things can go wrong, bike malfunction, hit a chuck hole, other riders getting squirely, etc. Yes it looks cool, feels cool, but no reason there should be 100-125' foot jumps on local tracks that C riders are hitting
TXDirt
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TXDirt 8/27/2017 5:49pm
8/27/2017 5:49pm
I'm a big fan of table tops.

Now having said that, each person who rides a race track is responsible for the choices they make. The track owner, builder, promoter, is not holding a gun to your head. If you decide to send it and don't have the experience or feel comfortable then that's on you.

If you feel like sending it to impress your buddies, or to earn that plastic trophy, that's your decisions. No obstacle is to difficult to single over.

Enjoy riding and racing to the level you feel comfortable and don't blame others for the choices you make when it doesn't work out.
smoothies862 8/27/2017 5:49pm
8/27/2017 5:49pm
make it tables where you can 120' or just on top to wherever you feel safe. I hate the skinny no room for error jumps . with a gap and you cant see if someone rolls it. because they vanish for a second. wide enough and you can stay left or right and not get landed on., hopefully addressed at riders meeting. had a race this yr 5 guys wadded up jumping a 4th gear double. built wrong high speed. arg. multiple riders told the track guy make it safe or take it out. really? a 4th gear jump with a big take off then a valley where you cant see. no room for error . we should be attracting riders not scaring them away. safe and fun or they wont come back. I have heard them say it and do it.
Myke
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Myke 8/27/2017 5:50pm
8/27/2017 5:50pm
SoCal the land of the jumps. I am actually surprised we don't have to hit a jump to enter the tracks.

My rolling jump technique is getting pretty dialed tho.
Grizz
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Grizz 8/27/2017 5:52pm
8/27/2017 5:52pm
I like when a track has a big jump with an option to be safe. Like a table to table. Fun for everyone.
Myke
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Myke 8/27/2017 5:53pm
8/27/2017 5:53pm
TXDirt wrote:
I'm a big fan of table tops. Now having said that, each person who rides a race track is responsible for the choices they make. The...
I'm a big fan of table tops.

Now having said that, each person who rides a race track is responsible for the choices they make. The track owner, builder, promoter, is not holding a gun to your head. If you decide to send it and don't have the experience or feel comfortable then that's on you.

If you feel like sending it to impress your buddies, or to earn that plastic trophy, that's your decisions. No obstacle is to difficult to single over.

Enjoy riding and racing to the level you feel comfortable and don't blame others for the choices you make when it doesn't work out.
My favorite set up is a table that has a hump built in the center so if you jump short and land halfway you can on the hump and ride off. And may of the tables that have these are tapered down slightly after the hump so you can keep pushing yourself to clear the whole thing gradually. Milestone vet track has some great examples of these.
mx216
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mx216 8/27/2017 6:07pm
8/27/2017 6:07pm
TheLsho wrote:
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe...
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe alternative if they don't want to. That being said, I hadn't ridden for ten years and I grew up in an era of doubles, triples, and whoops on almost every track. Where I live now the only time I ride a public track that has obstacles that beginners can't do is in Arenacross. There are no separators anymore. For me it bums me out because I like riding technical jumps and having features to strive for. When there is nothing to look forward too besides corner speed it does take some of the fun out. So if you have tracks with good jumps and hard features, I am jealous and be grateful you're not living somewhere with no options.
BobPA wrote:
This
I can say that after riding for 25 years, I have never crashed on a jump because it was too big. I decided not to jump if it was sketchy. (When living in socal i jumped all the big stuff at pala as an idea). Realistically if someone wants to go jump something that is too big for their skill level its basically natural selection taking over. Its pretty easy to know if something is beyond your level and if you decide to jump it, like the idiots over the train tracks, well, you kinda get what you deserve. Don't blame the track unless you hit that jump that's too big and land on a water truck or bulldozer that shouldn't be out there.
JM485
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JM485 8/27/2017 6:15pm
8/27/2017 6:15pm
TheLsho wrote:
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe...
I believe that, a lot of the time, it should be the rider's decision to do the obstacles or not and there should be a safe alternative if they don't want to. That being said, I hadn't ridden for ten years and I grew up in an era of doubles, triples, and whoops on almost every track. Where I live now the only time I ride a public track that has obstacles that beginners can't do is in Arenacross. There are no separators anymore. For me it bums me out because I like riding technical jumps and having features to strive for. When there is nothing to look forward too besides corner speed it does take some of the fun out. So if you have tracks with good jumps and hard features, I am jealous and be grateful you're not living somewhere with no options.
This right here, it's every riders choice to hit a jump or not. I'm not a fan of huge jumps per say, but I like technical sections that make it feel like you're going through Bmx jumps. The problems is any time they put something in the track not everyone can do, people either bitch or try things over their skill level and crash. Same goes for whoops, of course everyone sucks at them, nobody will dare put a real set in their track or they'll face the wrath of the vet rider collective.

To me it's always up to the rider to decide whether or not to hit an obstacle. As long as it's built well and safely maintained, I don't have a problem with large jumps and technical supercross type sections.

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Cycle Sport
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Cycle Sport 8/27/2017 6:23pm
8/27/2017 6:23pm
I am all about the rider is responsible for what he chooses to do. Also, I am a fan of the tables with humps in the middle. What I don't like are the jumps that you have to slow way down to roll, like gapped doubles with a steep back side, or on a fast part of the track. When not jumping breakers your momentum completely, and makes you a danger to others. I don't complain, just choose other places to ride.
m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16 8/27/2017 6:42pm
8/27/2017 6:42pm
ToolMaker wrote:
All jumps are the perfect size right up till they're not. I don't know where the size limit is for responsible track owners but something tells...
All jumps are the perfect size right up till they're not. I don't know where the size limit
is for responsible track owners but something tells me that 5 years from now the obstacles
will be even bigger.
As long as kids want to brag to their friends, they will keep hitting bigger jumps.
And I say kids because I don't think people think of the safety aspect until they
become responsible for others, such as being married or a parent.
TM
This means we can't let those instagram rider ruin if for the rest of us, jumping houses and all kinds of crazy stuff. Remember when that dude jumped those train tracks and completely ate it?
m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16 8/27/2017 6:43pm
8/27/2017 6:43pm
Cycle Sport wrote:
I am all about the rider is responsible for what he chooses to do. Also, I am a fan of the tables with humps in the...
I am all about the rider is responsible for what he chooses to do. Also, I am a fan of the tables with humps in the middle. What I don't like are the jumps that you have to slow way down to roll, like gapped doubles with a steep back side, or on a fast part of the track. When not jumping breakers your momentum completely, and makes you a danger to others. I don't complain, just choose other places to ride.
I like that idea to, lets faster people hit the full thing and others still have fun.
m.hardesty16
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m.hardesty16 8/27/2017 6:46pm
8/27/2017 6:46pm
yak651 wrote:
I don't mind big jumps out of a corner with steep faces that shoot you up. What i don't care for a large jumps you have...
I don't mind big jumps out of a corner with steep faces that shoot you up. What i don't care for a large jumps you have to hit pinned 4th gear to clear. Just too many things can go wrong, bike malfunction, hit a chuck hole, other riders getting squirely, etc. Yes it looks cool, feels cool, but no reason there should be 100-125' foot jumps on local tracks that C riders are hitting
Thats the stuff im mostly talking about, watching pro sx it suprises me more mistakes arent made with how many jumps they hit in both racing and practice. Just so many thing that can go wrong.
BAMX
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BAMX 8/27/2017 6:50pm
8/27/2017 6:50pm
Ron_Shuler wrote:
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or...
There will be guys that say man up and just do it but the fact is the day comes when you have either been hurt or you just don't want to risk it anymore. Some of the tracks I have been going to lately it's been very obvious that every one is on the Vet track and maybe 10 people are riding the Main track with the big jumps, the funny thing is you would think the people running these tracks would get a clue.
Pala?
Racer142
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Racer142 8/27/2017 6:52pm
8/27/2017 6:52pm
It's impossible to please everybody. For example I am a 27 year old B class rider. I only ride practice anymore and my favorite part of riding a track is the hardest jumps like big 4th gear jumps or jumps directly before or after corners. I love the challenge. That said I rode a track Saturday with I'd say 20 other riders and the were 3 jumps on the track that only myself and one other rider jumped and I think that's OK. It is up to you as a rider to judge what you can and cannot jump. If there is a jump that nobody can hit then you might need to have a discussion about it until then it should be up to the rider.
mx317
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mx317 8/27/2017 6:55pm
8/27/2017 6:55pm
These threads never turn out well. You have your "it's up to the rider to jump or not" bunch and the ones rolling everything and wanting things flattened out. Look at the tracks with the largest turnout of riders and see what kind of jumps they have. What you will see is a track almost all are having fun on. I'm going to name drop, but I overheard Big Dave Coombs say he built a track that 70% of all the big bikes jumped all the jumps. I think that is a good ratio and we know how much success he had as a promoter.
MyersAvionics 8/27/2017 8:03pm
8/27/2017 8:03pm
I agree with a lot of what has been said here. It's the main reason I don't MX anymore ... at all. Switched to woods and endurocross and it was a great decision. A TON more riding for less money, way less risk and in general the community is stellar.

I think people are catching on, I think we had a good 200 people today in the main race. 13.5 miles of fast grass track, creek beds and fast trail ... oh and a fun/safe tabletop. I'm telling you guys. Get some bark busters and hit the trails.
nolookpass
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nolookpass 8/27/2017 8:04pm
8/27/2017 8:04pm
Think about it like this. Most people are average riders, of average skill and ability. These are the weekend-warriors who look forward to riding on Saturday or Sunday, to hang out with their buddies, and they are the ones paying $30 to practice.

They are about average skill and ability (myself included), and have to go to work on Monday. And, we've all experienced an injury or two and don't want to do through that recovery process again.



For a track to succeed, they have to do a few things right (In my opinion):

1) Safety, this includes mostly tables and small doubles that, even if you totally case or miss, you'll still be alright (most of the time)
2) Nothing that's a 4th gear pinned to clear, or a 100+ foot jump
3) No blind landings.. I know a few fast, experienced guys, who wadded after an inexperienced guy landed wrong on a big jump and they crashed right in front of their landing. You can't turn in the air.
4) Steep faces on big jumps on a straight-away seem to be the kiss of death (fine out of a corner though)

If you can make the average rider feel safer, feel more confident out there, and enhance their experience, they will come back and keep improving. You can't ride while you are injured, and you can't pay the track while you are out.

Building bigger, more advanced jumps is fine on a main or pro track (again, why not provide options?), but if you are a track builder, or local track planning out a vet track - build something at the lower intermediate-level with plenty of options.

I'm a business owner and thinking about this from a safety and business perspective.
c0ncEpT
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c0ncEpT 8/27/2017 8:09pm
8/27/2017 8:09pm
I would venture to say more riders get hurt going down in rough high speed sections than jumps on race day.

Lack of track maintenance is what gets riders hurt imo
jrrundle
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jrrundle 8/27/2017 8:25pm
8/27/2017 8:25pm
I think it would be beneficial to have more rider input while these tracks are in the design phase. Once the owners have built the track, they have already invested so much time and money that any changes would be too much of a burden.
RandyS
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RandyS 8/27/2017 8:38pm
8/27/2017 8:38pm
The absolute most fun jumps to me are giant rollers with the lip on the way up. You may only get 5 or 10 feet above the ground at any point but you can land on the face, top, or all the way over 100 feet without dying. Seems like there are more in Europe than here but there are a few on national tracks. Between 4 strokes and jumps that riders below intermediate have no business jumping the motorcycle industry is doing a pretty good job of digging their own graves.

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