New bike to replace 250f?

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5/19/2021 1:01 AM

Hi Guys,

Had my 19" Kx250 for a little while now. Its aprox 30hr on the motor and I'm planning on moving it on.

Two immediate things I've disliked are heavy 4T engine braking, and the weight and inertia.

I'm pretty handy on a bike having been a former Junior pro DH racer. But I can't help but feel I'd be able to ride the bike harder on a two stroke with the weight etc.

The only question is 125 or 250?

In the UK where I am non of our tracks have hills etc, its either hard pack or moderate sand. Fat Cats is the closest and on the 250f I'm mostly 3rd and 4th gear pinned. I am 6ft 2 and 225lbs without kit.

The 250f felt about right power wise but I don't think I'd mind having slightly less if it means I can ride it harder.

So really I want to know the differences in the chassis and handling characteristics of the 125 and 250 2t. Is there a significant feeling of added weight? Or is the 250 as easy to throw around as a 125.

Part of me thinks get a 125, maximise my ability on that even if its slightly underpowered.

The main thing to me is being able to throw the bike around. As long as it's got the power to get me going.

Cheers

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5/19/2021 1:12 AM

250, you’ll be too heavy for a 125

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5/19/2021 1:48 AM

ronniemacwannabie wrote:

250, you’ll be too heavy for a 125

You think?

The power of the 250f was perfect, I never found myself wanting more.

Really all I want is a lighter bike. Not sure if a 250 would be too much or would offset the feeling of lightness/manoeuvrability

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5/19/2021 1:52 AM

I'm 185lbs without gear. A 125 is fun every now and then but I could never have one as a full time bike. I vote the 250 2 stroke

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5/19/2021 2:38 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/19/2021 2:40 AM

Purely my thoughts on it had I personally been less fat and a small bore was an option for me...

If you don't race, grab a 150 and have the time of your life and really push the thing.

If you race and want to compete on a smoker go 250 as it's just leaving power on the table with current class structures. Plus, not saying you need it, but a less strict maintenance schedule may free up cash for more meetings / club fees as the 250 probably wont get worked as hard?

If you race and want to have fun chasing people down on a bike a quarter of the size and appreciate the challenge, we're back to the 150 again.

Worth noting the legend that is Jeff Emig is shredding on a 150 every chance he gets, and that's on big ol' Murica tracks wink

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5/19/2021 2:46 AM

Is your aim to have a more fun bike or do you also want to be more competitive? If you want to be as fast as your skill allows then staying with a 250f is most likely the best option despite the negative characteristics you mentioned. If lap times don’t matter then I would say a 125 is the most fun, just be aware that clearing difficult jumps will get more challenging, especially with you being a bigger guy

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5/19/2021 4:02 AM

Richy wrote:

Purely my thoughts on it had I personally been less fat and a small bore was an option for me...

If you don't race, grab a ...more

Cheers Richy,

Just the answer I'm after.

The maintenance thing is definitely a factor. I'm kind of aware my weight will be heavy on parts on a small bore.

I've had a look into the 250's and I think you can soften them up with ignition timing etc.

Aim is to have a fun bike, I don't race and if I did then the races I'd enter are definitely more reliant on skill (I was at a race at the weekend spannering and a 125 won in the experts in super heavy rain)

I may see if there any any 150s around for decent money - 250s tend to run cheaper from what I've seen

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5/19/2021 4:03 AM

WhyZed125 wrote:

Is your aim to have a more fun bike or do you also want to be more competitive? If you want to be as fast as your skill allows ...more

It's a mix of both although fun is foremost.

I get what you say about jumps. In some of the deeper sand tracks I occasionally struggle unless I hit the previous corners etc perfect.

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5/19/2021 5:11 AM

From what you’re describing, get a 144/150. Same peak power as your 250F but much more light and nimble feeling, no engine braking. I’m bigger than you and I owned a TM 144, 250 and a 300F at the same time. Guess which was my favorite?

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5/19/2021 7:53 AM

I'd vote for the 125/150 idea also. I'm 200lbs with full gear and in the fast novice/slow intermediate range and a 250cc 2 stroke is too much power for me to have fun on. I have way more fun pushing a 125cc around. Super good tool for improving carrying speed into corners but definitely not a bike you can be lazy on.

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5/19/2021 8:21 AM

Richy wrote:

Purely my thoughts on it had I personally been less fat and a small bore was an option for me...

If you don't race, grab a ...more

NialOx wrote:

Cheers Richy,

Just the answer I'm after.

The maintenance thing is definitely a factor. I'm kind of aware my weight will be ...more

i would go with a 250 two stroke. They are much lighter in motion and i think you describe a riding style that is better suited to a two stroke. You can throw a heavier flywheel weight on the bike for under $100 and chill the power out. You won't be pushing the motor too hard so this should have an impact on maintenance intervals. Super fun

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5/19/2021 8:27 AM

If you are racing for fun I would highly recommend a 150. If you are trying to qualify for Loretta's or something similar the 150 will be a handicap in the vet classes. Other than that, there is no downside to a 150. You will have more fun, race harder longer and get hurt less often.

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5/19/2021 8:32 AM

Generally speaking, if a 150 is in the question.....the 150 is the answer.

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Violence You Can Believe In

5/19/2021 9:15 AM

ktm 270sxf is the hot ticket. feels much lighter than the new kawi's makes way more power. reduced engine braking as well

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5/19/2021 10:31 AM

Send your ignition out or pick up a get/ vortex and have it remapped first. Tell the tuner you issues. See how you like the bike then. It makes a huge difference.

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5/19/2021 1:46 PM

Have you ever rode a 125? If you’ve always rode 4 strokes a 125 will take a lot of getting used to. I ride at fatcats on an Rm 125, you are definitely at a disadvantage in the sand but to me they are infinitely more fun to ride.

The weight difference seems massive when you ride them back to back, but you’ve got to be on your game constantly on a small bore 2 stroke. If you let the bike dip below it’s tiny power band it falls flat and will take work to keep on the pipe.

Overall, the Kx you’ve got will make life easier and are by far are easier and more consistent to get round a track on. But can’t beat ringing out a tiddler!

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5/19/2021 4:46 PM

If you want to "ride a bike harder" then a 250 2 stroke is not your answer. That bike is more powerful and way more quirky than a 250F. The 250 2 stroke is probably the most difficult bike to ride well out of current bikes.

Sounds to me like you want a 150. But I don't think you'll like it more than the 250F. You might lose the engine braking, but you going to shift more than you've ever shifted before. It's fine the first few rides, but that shit gets old.

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5/19/2021 9:10 PM

yzf162 wrote:

Send your ignition out or pick up a get/ vortex and have it remapped first. Tell the tuner you issues. See how you like the ...more

Normally i just laugh at dumb down votes. But this time I had to laugh and point out the person that down voted needs to know how ecu work.

From what I read in the op's post he likes everything about the bike more or less but doesn't like the engine breaking and the heavy not free feeling you get on a 2T. He described it as the feeling of inertia. When you have your ecu reprogrammed or with a new ecu you can reduce a lot of the engine breaking as well as make sure the power is transitioning as smooth as possible which makes the bikes feel lighter and more clickable in corners. YZF owners will understand this best. Read keefers YZF keefer free revving map review to expand on what im talking about. Woth a ecu set up for you it can make the bike feel totally different on the ground and in the air.

If a rider came to me and told me the above the first thing im thinking about is how can i fix this for as little as possible and save the rider money an it makes enough sense to fix it and not buy a whole new bike. Unless the rider really just seems like they want a new bike. Then fresh bikes are great but you might run into the same issue or new issue and still paying more money.

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5/19/2021 10:04 PM

Sand track? If there is any question, CR500AF is the answer! Don't look back!

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5/19/2021 10:36 PM

BMX/MTB rider here, with a light history in MX, Personally ride a CRF 250 (not often).

Whilst I love my 250F, I 100% understand where you're coming from, and would also vote a 150, then a 125. I'm a lightweight (maybe 170lbs wet / 77kg) and absolutely love ringing a 125, but for your weight level a 150 would be the ticket. 250 2T is a lot of power that demands a bit more respect, where you can certainly ride and throw the smaller bores around more.

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5/20/2021 1:14 AM

Cheers guys,

Some good info here. I’m definitely leaning towards getting a 2t instead of modifying my 250f and potentially not liking it.

We’ve not too many great ECU programmers near me that I’d trust with my bike so that is a factor. My general feeling is just a dislike for engine braking.

I may see if I can get a ride on a 150 and 250. Ive ridden 300s a bit on enduro and I ride a 290 trials bike. So I just need to dip my toes to see what I like.

Not too worried about the bikes getting away from me, I’m pretty bike fit and I’d hazard a guess at being significantly stronger than the average rider.

I think the main thing is going out and seeing what I like.

The other argument being that prices in the U.K. for bikes (US too I believe) are higher than ever, I wouldn’t mind making a slight profit on mine and then getting a 2T which may not plummet in price as fast

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5/20/2021 1:18 AM

Teejay wrote:

Have you ever rode a 125? If you’ve always rode 4 strokes a 125 will take a lot of getting used to. I ride at fatcats on an Rm ...more

No I’ve never ridden one on a track!

I don’t mind shifting too much!

My other thoughts with the 250 was that with a flywheel weight and an extended tank I could make my own XC and hit some of the RAW sprint enduros

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5/20/2021 1:26 AM

If you are that heavy ( compared to the target 125 pilot ) and you are not so talented, riding on tight sandy tracks, listen up, bog zap, bog zap bog zap.

Do anything possible to get a ride on a 125 before you buy.

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5/20/2021 2:51 AM

Easy choice. CR 500

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the ultimate MX renegade from the east shore of the big cold pond

5/20/2021 3:07 AM

yzf162 wrote:

Send your ignition out or pick up a get/ vortex and have it remapped first. Tell the tuner you issues. See how you like the ...more

yzf162 wrote:

Normally i just laugh at dumb down votes. But this time I had to laugh and point out the person that down voted needs to know ...more

Playing with the power tuner app is eye opening to what can be done to these bikes. I tried out 5 different maps last weekend on my YZ250F. You can make the bike feel totally different and really tailor the power to what you want. Hopefully every brand adopts a similar system.

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5/20/2021 3:15 AM

yzf162 wrote:

Send your ignition out or pick up a get/ vortex and have it remapped first. Tell the tuner you issues. See how you like the ...more

yzf162 wrote:

Normally i just laugh at dumb down votes. But this time I had to laugh and point out the person that down voted needs to know ...more

JBecker 72 wrote:

Playing with the power tuner app is eye opening to what can be done to these bikes. I tried out 5 different maps last weekend ...more

It is a shame Kawa are a bit behind on it

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5/20/2021 4:55 AM

One last thing just given something you mentioned earlier mate.

I'd only ridden old RM/CR 250's before buying my Husky and was actually worried enough (read; I'm now a pussy) to start a thread here asking if it was gonna be too much of an animal coming from a long time off bikes.

I'd still have gone 150 if I was lighter, my gf's 150 is like a DH bike with a rocket strapped to it, but the modern Euro 250 2 stroke are mega chilled and tractable if you let the motor do the work and short shift until you're used to it, awesome piece of work those engines.

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5/20/2021 7:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/20/2021 7:30 AM

Richy wrote:

One last thing just given something you mentioned earlier mate.

I'd only ridden old RM/CR 250's before buying my Husky and ...more

Cheers Richy,

How much are you coming in at? I put my kit on and I'm pretty much 110kg suited and booted.

Absolutely love your bike by the way!

I'm going to have a shop around.

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5/20/2021 8:00 AM

I weigh about 200 without gear, just got a brand new KTM 125 SX after a few years off the bike. I haven’t had this much fun in a long time.

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5/20/2021 8:24 AM

Try to find a 04 cr125, the most confidence building bike ever made. Just tell sponsors your the fastest 04 cr125 rider in the world and your racing AX 125 all star class and plus 30,40. You might have to say your the fastest 04cr125 rider in the UK. Because I may be the fastest 04 cr125 AX rider in the world. It’s a bit of a joke, because nobody races a 04. But sponsors are pumped to help a vintage bike.

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