MXGP silly season18/19

8/29/2018 7:32am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 7:33am
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
RG1 wrote:
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if...
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if you're using MotoGP as a model, you still have to have the classes there for the riders to come through and make it to MXGP. Without MX2 or a lower class of some description, there's nowhere for the riders to develop. You're also losing a load of teams from the paddock. I honestly don't see MX2 going anywhere any time soon
DeStouwer wrote:
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as...
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as the only world championship left with EMX250 and EMX125 as supporting classes. EMX300 will not last very much longer either.
Evolving emx n mx2 to 1 class would destroy even more for teams and riders so i hope that wont ever happen.
8/29/2018 7:56am
RG1 wrote:
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if...
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if you're using MotoGP as a model, you still have to have the classes there for the riders to come through and make it to MXGP. Without MX2 or a lower class of some description, there's nowhere for the riders to develop. You're also losing a load of teams from the paddock. I honestly don't see MX2 going anywhere any time soon
DeStouwer wrote:
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as...
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as the only world championship left with EMX250 and EMX125 as supporting classes. EMX300 will not last very much longer either.
RG1 wrote:
I'm fairly certain we will retain an MX2 world championship. It just has to change. I wouldn't be at all against combining MX2 and EMX250 and...
I'm fairly certain we will retain an MX2 world championship. It just has to change. I wouldn't be at all against combining MX2 and EMX250 and doing away with EMX250 altogether. You may as well do that with how MX2 is now. I've said this for a long time. Give MX2 the same rules as EMX250, ie. No age rule, reduce the entry fees so people can afford to enter and let people turn up and try to qualify. That way you have the prestigious MXGP class with all the top riders in it, but you have a competitive feeder class with great racing where privateers can turn up and try and get seen. I know its all pipe dream stuff but I would have done that a long time ago. Get rid of EMX250 and 300. Have the EMX125 class and then from there you can try your hand in MX2 GP's
Why get rid of emx 300 and 250?. Even tho emx 250 and even 125 are feeder championships emx 300 is certainly not. Its a championship for teams/riders who either wants to race 250/300 2 strokes and for teams/riders who cant afford racing 450is on a gp level (its way cheaper to build a competetive 2 stroke) .

1. Scrap the mx2 age rule or make it so u have can have 4 years in it. In 4 years most riders would have proven themselves enough to either picked up or not.

2. Reduce far away rd's to save the teams some money or have youthstream/f.i.m pay for shipping and so on.

3. 40 man gates. Would make it more interesting and would get more riders a chance.

4. Bring back the mx3 class and make it more serious than it have been since smets and demaria left it. I totally understand that not many manufacturers still makes big bikes but it could be a class for lets say no hp, cc or weight restrictions and make it as an official mxgp class even if they race on the same tracks or not. Great way for ppl to extend their careers.

5. Change the rules so you can race 300cc 2 strokes in mxgp class. 250is have a to big disadvantage and would be much cheaper for smaller teams and privateers to build a competetive 2 stroke bike .

6. Scrap the entry fees all together, share profit with teams and riders in the form of race purses and pay the teams for racing For example look at like english and most european fotball clubs who get a share of the money from the tv broadcastings and tv licensing.

8/29/2018 8:01am
DeStouwer wrote:
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me. Ofcourse riders like...
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me.

Ofcourse riders like Prado and Jonass are outstanding, that can't be denied, but the depth of the field gets weaker. Guys like Watson, Mewse, Cervellin, Jacobi etc. (who are all great riders) wouldn't come near their results they're able to perform now if the likes of a Ferrandis, Tixier, Paturel, Anstie, Guillod, Seewer or Lieber wouldn't be forced to MXGP or the USA. That's just a fact.
Twigster wrote:
I think you're being more than a bit Harsh there. Watson and Mewse are both really, really young guys who have still got a massive amount...
I think you're being more than a bit Harsh there. Watson and Mewse are both really, really young guys who have still got a massive amount of development room left in terms of progression. They are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute.
He is right tho. Most of the mx2 field is made up of more or less mediocre riders who probably wont go to the mxgp class later. The mx2 class in the gp's is weak compared to the states. The mx1 class on the other hand is deeper than any series.
Twigster
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8/29/2018 8:06am
He is right tho. Most of the mx2 field is made up of more or less mediocre riders who probably wont go to the mxgp class...
He is right tho. Most of the mx2 field is made up of more or less mediocre riders who probably wont go to the mxgp class later. The mx2 class in the gp's is weak compared to the states. The mx1 class on the other hand is deeper than any series.
I don't agree with that. The MX1 class outside of the top 15 has an awful lot of journeymen riders with family money behind them, a lot of that group of 25 are miles behind the depth that the USA has at the minute. If there weren't so many who were priced out of MX1 and too old to ride in MX2, you'd see far more depth than we have right now.

The Shop

8/29/2018 8:07am
roninho wrote:
I think that the talent level influx is actually pretty good. The outflow rate is just to high/to quick, and in the past you would get...
I think that the talent level influx is actually pretty good. The outflow rate is just to high/to quick, and in the past you would get experienced guys back in 125/mx2 who were out of a good ride in 250/mx1/mxgp. Think of Puzar, Dobb, Malin, Masschio, chiodi, Moore, Tragter who all were way older then the current age limit when they had their biggest succes in 125's.

Nowadays you don't have that anymore. It looks like Anstie is out of a factory ride right now for MXGP, in the past he would have been a great pick for KTM to replace Jonass but Anstie isnt allowed. It's why guys like Dean Ferris, Guillod, etc. are out of GP's or have a crappy ride.

brycepdh wrote:
Good thing Ferris has the ability to come home and get good money competing in the Australian nationals and I think he is reaching his peak...
Good thing Ferris has the ability to come home and get good money competing in the Australian nationals and I think he is reaching his peak in his career which for the case if Ferris were an euro he would be been out of a ride in the gps for a couple of years now like the situation for a lot of riders now. That’s why we need to lift the age rule for mx2. i believe ferris is now a solid top 3/5 rider in the GPs which has taken a couple of years longer to get to that level as many teams expecting in the GPs.

I fucking hate this sport that it damages a lot of careers like this but I will pour my heart into it and live for moto.
On this topic: Ferris should fucking start racing for team sweden in mxon so we could get in to at least top 5 again. He is half Swedish so ^^
8/29/2018 8:11am
He is right tho. Most of the mx2 field is made up of more or less mediocre riders who probably wont go to the mxgp class...
He is right tho. Most of the mx2 field is made up of more or less mediocre riders who probably wont go to the mxgp class later. The mx2 class in the gp's is weak compared to the states. The mx1 class on the other hand is deeper than any series.
Twigster wrote:
I don't agree with that. The MX1 class outside of the top 15 has an awful lot of journeymen riders with family money behind them, a...
I don't agree with that. The MX1 class outside of the top 15 has an awful lot of journeymen riders with family money behind them, a lot of that group of 25 are miles behind the depth that the USA has at the minute. If there weren't so many who were priced out of MX1 and too old to ride in MX2, you'd see far more depth than we have right now.
The difference tho is that we have maybe 12-15 riders here who probably shouldnt be there, the nationals have 30 dudes who shouldnt be there. Its gotten way worse with the dept in the states than here. I follow both series and have for years and you cant compare mx1 ama to what it was just 7-8 years ago.

I agree with the latter tho.
DeStouwer
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8/30/2018 3:28am
Finally official, what everyone already knew: TKO and Beaton at Rockstar Husqvarna next season.
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8/30/2018 4:28am
Yeah right, they didn’t have the money to bring Bobryshev to Sevlievo but they do have the money to make it a 3 rider team?
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RG1
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8/30/2018 4:28am
DeStouwer wrote:
Finally official, what everyone already knew: TKO and Beaton at Rockstar Husqvarna next season.
Good for Beaton. He was really impressive before his injury
Derpin' DJ
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8/30/2018 4:45am
DeStouwer wrote:
Finally official, what everyone already knew: TKO and Beaton at Rockstar Husqvarna next season.
Source pls
8/30/2018 5:22am
Lol, it says there waiting on the press release of JM Rockstar Husqvarna, so nothing official yet
brycepdh
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9/4/2018 1:15am
While we wait for the official press realease but in a jed Beaton interview he said he is definitely in Europe for the next three years as shown in the screenshot below. To have an idea how long he’s signing on for.

crusty_xx
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9/6/2018 6:20am
Guillod is without a ride for next season as well.
He was hoping to stay with Standing Construct KTM but they gave his spot to Monticelli (apparently he brought 200k with him...)
And now he's injured again. So no chance to prove himself in the upcoming races.

I don't know if any team would risk that but if there was a decent opportunity in the US, I'm sure he would take it. He is a decent SX rider as well (on Euro tracks, that is)
DeStouwer
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9/6/2018 6:39am
crusty_xx wrote:
Guillod is without a ride for next season as well. He was hoping to stay with Standing Construct KTM but they gave his spot to Monticelli...
Guillod is without a ride for next season as well.
He was hoping to stay with Standing Construct KTM but they gave his spot to Monticelli (apparently he brought 200k with him...)
And now he's injured again. So no chance to prove himself in the upcoming races.

I don't know if any team would risk that but if there was a decent opportunity in the US, I'm sure he would take it. He is a decent SX rider as well (on Euro tracks, that is)
I thought that that was his plan anyway. I've read an article about two weeks ago that he was looking for a place in the US. He prefers the 250F but as we know this isn't possible for him in Europe.
Robgvx
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9/6/2018 11:32am
crusty_xx wrote:
Guillod is without a ride for next season as well. He was hoping to stay with Standing Construct KTM but they gave his spot to Monticelli...
Guillod is without a ride for next season as well.
He was hoping to stay with Standing Construct KTM but they gave his spot to Monticelli (apparently he brought 200k with him...)
And now he's injured again. So no chance to prove himself in the upcoming races.

I don't know if any team would risk that but if there was a decent opportunity in the US, I'm sure he would take it. He is a decent SX rider as well (on Euro tracks, that is)
This whole situation sucks.

That stupid 23-year-old rule was a panicked, ill-thought-out, knee-jerk reaction from Luongo when he was not getting enough riders in the 450 class a few years ago. It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t now.

Now, as we predicted, you have a forced, one-way flow of riders into MXGP when the class is already full. Now we’re seeing the result of that poor decision - quality riders being thrown to the gutter and desperate but wealthy newcomers buying their way in ahead of more deserving riders.

It’s hurting MX2 taking the good guys out every year (as we’ll see at MXdN) and the riders moving up have nowhere to go unless they’re already factory or have deep pockets.

When the winner of the MXdN last year - and a podium guy this season - can’t get a ride it beggars belief. And it’s all a result of that stupid rule.

GL’s vision of a premier class stacked with all the best talent is unworkable. The costs of participation are too high, and regardless of his fancy promotion the teams at the back will NEVER get enough coverage and generate enough sponsorship through riders who aren’t at the sharp end. So we have them taking the cash from pay riders instead. It’s shameful. But I can understand the teams having to take the money to stay afloat.

It’s time GL swallowed his pride and admitted he got it wrong. Get rid of the rule.
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Paul333
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9/6/2018 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2018 6:04pm
Is it just me or is the riders buying seats on teams situation getting worse? It’s afftected HRC Honda, Standing Construct KTM,.......

It’s a sad situation for the sport when riders are picked on how much money they can bring to a team.

Is there a way to actually see the profits Loungo is making? Is Youthstream a private company?
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crusty_xx
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9/6/2018 7:01pm
Paul333 wrote:
Is it just me or is the riders buying seats on teams situation getting worse? It’s afftected HRC Honda, Standing Construct KTM,....... It’s a sad situation...
Is it just me or is the riders buying seats on teams situation getting worse? It’s afftected HRC Honda, Standing Construct KTM,.......

It’s a sad situation for the sport when riders are picked on how much money they can bring to a team.

Is there a way to actually see the profits Loungo is making? Is Youthstream a private company?
Factory Kawasaki also. Lieber at least had decent arguments beside his riding skill sot overtrump other riders.

It's ridiculous.
Bidirella
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9/6/2018 10:10pm
Only the big dogs and the rich dogs will survive in the MXGP those days it seems.

20 GPs next year and 7 are outside off Europe, its only possible if youre a factory team or a team with big black money sponsor or how you wanne call it. Otherwise you have zero chance to do a whole year.

Its crazy and ridiculios with so many overseas races in crazy countrys.

And the age rule... One off the worst things they did over the years.

I really wonder how the MXGP will look in 5 years...
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9/6/2018 10:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2018 10:43pm
Paul333 wrote:
Is it just me or is the riders buying seats on teams situation getting worse? It’s afftected HRC Honda, Standing Construct KTM,....... It’s a sad situation...
Is it just me or is the riders buying seats on teams situation getting worse? It’s afftected HRC Honda, Standing Construct KTM,.......

It’s a sad situation for the sport when riders are picked on how much money they can bring to a team.

Is there a way to actually see the profits Loungo is making? Is Youthstream a private company?
That’s a thing where Luongo has been able to make the GP’s a lot like MotoGP and F1.
roninho
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9/7/2018 4:43am
The whole issue in a nutshell:

Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450 combined ~35.000 euro in purses per round.

Dutch GP at Valkenswaard: 10.000 visitors @ 75 euro per ticket. No purses for the riders, but 60.000 euro's paid by riders in MX2 and MXGP to be allowed to participate.

Youthstream takes the difference, and the only additional value they provide is that they pay for the TV production (which is for sure covered by the additional sponsorship the GP's have compared to the dutch masters)

Paul333
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9/7/2018 5:22am
roninho wrote:
The whole issue in a nutshell: Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450...
The whole issue in a nutshell:

Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450 combined ~35.000 euro in purses per round.

Dutch GP at Valkenswaard: 10.000 visitors @ 75 euro per ticket. No purses for the riders, but 60.000 euro's paid by riders in MX2 and MXGP to be allowed to participate.

Youthstream takes the difference, and the only additional value they provide is that they pay for the TV production (which is for sure covered by the additional sponsorship the GP's have compared to the dutch masters)

Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying the riders or teams a single thing they actually still charge the riders to race. The stars of the show. Mind Blown...

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Bearuno
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9/7/2018 5:51am
roninho wrote:
The whole issue in a nutshell: Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450...
The whole issue in a nutshell:

Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450 combined ~35.000 euro in purses per round.

Dutch GP at Valkenswaard: 10.000 visitors @ 75 euro per ticket. No purses for the riders, but 60.000 euro's paid by riders in MX2 and MXGP to be allowed to participate.

Youthstream takes the difference, and the only additional value they provide is that they pay for the TV production (which is for sure covered by the additional sponsorship the GP's have compared to the dutch masters)

Thanks for that useful, stark comparison, roninho .

Don't forget the entry money Luongo got from any of the other classes held on the weekend, too. I think EMX classes are a few hundred Euros per rider. I've seen quotes here and elsewhere of the 300 / 400 Euro mark for EMX entries. And often, the entry numbers, for those classes, are massive .

I'm pretty sure Luongo / Youthstream have all costs well covered by Monster, and the many other series and round sponsors.

Robgvx's viewpoints are spot on. Though, I doubt that Luongo and his boy, Davide, will admit they've got anything wrong, ever , nor swallow their pride, or get rid of the idiotic MX2 age limitation rule. Bloody hell, I hope I get proved wrong on that. Meanwhile, he guarantees a continued exodus of riders to the Circus of Supercross and other National series............
9/7/2018 6:17am
Paul333 wrote:
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying...
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying the riders or teams a single thing they actually still charge the riders to race. The stars of the show. Mind Blown...

Welcome to free market capitalism. haha.
Cortami79
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9/7/2018 6:51am
roninho wrote:
The whole issue in a nutshell: Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450...
The whole issue in a nutshell:

Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450 combined ~35.000 euro in purses per round.

Dutch GP at Valkenswaard: 10.000 visitors @ 75 euro per ticket. No purses for the riders, but 60.000 euro's paid by riders in MX2 and MXGP to be allowed to participate.

Youthstream takes the difference, and the only additional value they provide is that they pay for the TV production (which is for sure covered by the additional sponsorship the GP's have compared to the dutch masters)

You're totally right. The problem is that the factory teams won't cooperate, so no changes will be made until then. Even Dirk Greubel atmitted it was hard for KTM factory to cope with all those costs.. but as long as they go, everyone will go.
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Paul333
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9/7/2018 7:23am
Paul333 wrote:
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying...
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying the riders or teams a single thing they actually still charge the riders to race. The stars of the show. Mind Blown...

Welcome to free market capitalism. haha.
In the European Union no less that’s mostly Socialist.

Seems about right actually. In Socialist systems the leaders always enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.
NVA57
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9/7/2018 9:36am
roninho wrote:
The whole issue in a nutshell: Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450...
The whole issue in a nutshell:

Dutch masters of motocross: 5.000 visitors @ 20 euro ticket sales. The masters pay the riders in 250 & 450 combined ~35.000 euro in purses per round.

Dutch GP at Valkenswaard: 10.000 visitors @ 75 euro per ticket. No purses for the riders, but 60.000 euro's paid by riders in MX2 and MXGP to be allowed to participate.

Youthstream takes the difference, and the only additional value they provide is that they pay for the TV production (which is for sure covered by the additional sponsorship the GP's have compared to the dutch masters)

Paul333 wrote:
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying...
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying the riders or teams a single thing they actually still charge the riders to race. The stars of the show. Mind Blown...

I'm baffled how MXGP survives with it's absurd costs and rules.
9/7/2018 11:21am
Paul333 wrote:
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying...
Obviously all of this blows my mind but the cherry on top is that while making give or take 750,000 Euros off the race without paying the riders or teams a single thing they actually still charge the riders to race. The stars of the show. Mind Blown...

Welcome to free market capitalism. haha.
Paul333 wrote:
In the European Union no less that’s mostly Socialist. Seems about right actually. In Socialist systems the leaders always enrich themselves at the expense of everyone...
In the European Union no less that’s mostly Socialist.

Seems about right actually. In Socialist systems the leaders always enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else.
Productivity skyrocketed in the past couple decades, yet wages flatlined. Has nothing to do with socialism & everything to do with capitalism. That's what we encourage companies to do you know, to maximize value by any means necessary. That's capitalism.

This is motocross, and I'm excited to see what changes come to the world MX scene in coming years. Nobody is really talking about electric bikes and those are going to disrupt classes more than four strokes did.
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