MXGP silly season18/19

RG1
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8/29/2018 12:45am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 12:46am
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out after next season, and there is no chance that there will be that many spots in MXGP. Plus, there isn't 12 riders good enough to fill those rides. The age rule has served it's purpose in strengthening MXGP, but it's time to do something about it now.
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DeStouwer
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8/29/2018 1:10am
RG1 wrote:
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out...
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out after next season, and there is no chance that there will be that many spots in MXGP. Plus, there isn't 12 riders good enough to fill those rides. The age rule has served it's purpose in strengthening MXGP, but it's time to do something about it now.
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
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8/29/2018 1:15am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 7:28am
Bearuno wrote:
[b]MXMattii : [/b]"FIM will do Nothing" You're bloody right there. Luongo "owns" the GPs, lock, stock and barrel. Until at least 2026, to my recollection. And...
MXMattii : "FIM will do Nothing"

You're bloody right there.

Luongo "owns" the GPs, lock, stock and barrel.

Until at least 2026, to my recollection. And, from things I've read, it appears He's (in the process of , or it's already a 'done deal') having that extended.

It would take a revolution at the FIM, to break the contract / take Luongo / Youthstream to task and change things, and, as Srb looks to be very close to becoming the head of the FIM, and not just the European 'branch', I think there's not a snowballs chance in hell that the FIM will ever reduce Luongos vampire-ism on MX.

Let's hope the Teams / Riders have some influence. It's a World Championship(s), so it should go to many places around the globe. But Luongo / Youthstream should be providing real travel assistance to those that do the Racing.

Cortami79 wrote:
The teams have the power, if they don't go, there won't be any racing.. IMO age rule 25 (or completely gone) and EMX250 with age 23...
The teams have the power, if they don't go, there won't be any racing..

IMO age rule 25 (or completely gone) and EMX250 with age 23.

The careers of riders like Butron, Roelants, Searle, Kras, Kouwenberg and many others were over before they could peak
Agreed . Kouwenberg rides the Swedish nationals and i think even the dutch nationals now for a Swedish team alongside f.bengtsson. they want to race emx/gp full time but cant afford it ???
chuckdavies
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8/29/2018 1:22am
From the time it changed from MX1 to MXGP, I think Luongo's long term plans were set for it to replicate the MotoGP format.

- 1 main class similar to MotoGP (MXGP)
- 1 support class similar to Moto 2 (possibly combining EMX250 and MX2)
- 2nd support class similar to Moto 3 (EMX125)

I can honestly see something like this happening. In his mind he wants to reach the masses and this setup could potentially make it easier for the non-fan to follow with only 2 races to watch on TV instead of 4 main ones. The more established fan then has the option via another TV channel possibly, or even MXGP-TV to watch the 2 support races.

The Shop

8/29/2018 1:34am
RG1 wrote:
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out...
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out after next season, and there is no chance that there will be that many spots in MXGP. Plus, there isn't 12 riders good enough to fill those rides. The age rule has served it's purpose in strengthening MXGP, but it's time to do something about it now.
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
If Luongo wants to compare it to something, he must look at the MotoGp. There you still have 3 classes with the MotoGp as the topclass. Going to 1 big class, like Formula 1 is just crazy. Never gonna happen I think, cause all manufacturers make both 250 and 450 bikes.
roninho
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8/29/2018 2:34am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 2:35am
Is there such a big benefit of having 1 main class?

It never was an issue in the 80's and 90's when there were multiple classes. The Dutch media was all over the 125cc class at the end of the 80's when we had 2 title contenders. I also think that Glenn Coldenhoff would get a lot more attention if he'd be racing in MX2 as a top 3 guy then running in 7th in MXGP.
RG1
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8/29/2018 3:13am
RG1 wrote:
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out...
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out after next season, and there is no chance that there will be that many spots in MXGP. Plus, there isn't 12 riders good enough to fill those rides. The age rule has served it's purpose in strengthening MXGP, but it's time to do something about it now.
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if you're using MotoGP as a model, you still have to have the classes there for the riders to come through and make it to MXGP. Without MX2 or a lower class of some description, there's nowhere for the riders to develop. You're also losing a load of teams from the paddock. I honestly don't see MX2 going anywhere any time soon
chuckdavies
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8/29/2018 3:16am
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
I must've taken longer typing that than I thought, you beat me to it haha!
Flip109
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8/29/2018 3:17am
Maybe leave the 250 class to the EMX series or races they can drive to. Only run the MXGP class at the fly aways. Get rid of the age rule. Only the cream of the crop make it into mxgp kind of like sx. The 250 class is regional only.
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Twigster
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8/29/2018 3:32am
Luongo has been a vampire on the sport since he came into it, he's tried to make it a global series when the fanbase and support structure around it isn't strong enough to support that and now you see big teams and factory teams pulling out left, right and centre. If it wasn't for Red Bull and Monster energy the whole thing would have collapsed a couple of years ago and honestly, I'm not sure that would have been a bad thing. You can't take the sport away from it's heartlands, its traditions and drag it off to flat tracks in the desert and have it thrive. The guy thinks he's Bernie Ecclestone, only he's not as good at being Bernie as Bernie was and he doesn't have a strong sport behind him.

It's having a knock-on effect as well, mx is on it's backside in the UK because there are too many organising bodies, too many conflicting regs and even the pro nationals series here is struggling to get more than 30 riders on the start-line.
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Bearuno
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8/29/2018 3:40am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 3:44am
The 'Main" class is already there.

Then, you've got the Secondary class already there.

They've been there for decades now.

Though, of course, we've lost one class - the 125s. But, they are there to be re-introduced to a World Championships, in the form of upgrading the EMX125s. Not that I really think it's needed. It would take realistic travel money being paid - and Luongo sure as hell does Not provide that now.

Having MXGP and MX2 World Championships being too confusing for 'potential' spectators? Well, they can watch / be interested in whatever one they want. 'They' do so for MotoGP, Moto 2 and Moto3 in Road Racing.

It's not hard to follow - after all, many people are into their conventional sports, with their myriad of rules and nuances. It really isn't hard to work out that the first across the line wins a race. And, it's not hard to understand 2 races, and the overall. It's not rocket science, boys and girls. Sure, there are some seriously dumb fucks out there that might find it a bit hard, but they can keep to their piss poor mainstream sports. They sure as hell won't ever be buying a Motorcycle.

Look at the many 'experiments' Luongo and previous 'owners' of MX tried, to "make things more appealing"

Single Motos, Three short Motos. The BS of a "Superclass Moto (that lasted all of 2 events, I think?).

Then, Back to 2 Motos.

As it bloody well should be.

I won't go into how we have gone from 40 + 2, to then 35 +2 until 2014(?) in the GPs for many years, whilst US MX had gone to 30 +2, years before. Funny how, with so many dickheads saying that the MXDN rules favoured the 'Euros', that they were conveniently the same shorter US Moto length .....

Fucking around with our sport has not got it anywhere. It doesn't need synthetic changes. It, like all sports, has become more professional - and not through any 'innovations'. But hell, go looking for pictures / film of GPs over the decades - huge crowds / smaller crowds, just like today. Considering the TV and Streaning coverage of the events, the turn out at the established GPs is great - and hell, the 2 Indo GPs this year were very well attended - I went to both . The Semarang track, by the way, was fantastic. Argentina was chockers, too.

We've the Circus of Supercross for the dullards that can't cope with 2 Motos. But , hang on, come to think of it, there's 2 classes each night in SX, and Semis / or Heats / LCQs. And , Oh my Gawd, they've now got a few rounds with 3 'Mains' - how can the 'uninformed / casual' spectators cope with that...........

Yes, Luongo wanted one class a few years ago - and it was to be a 250 Class, even though he threw in a spinner about a 350 class for a short time.

For once, the Manufacturers used their power for good - basically saying "F*ck You" to him. They want a 250 and a 450 class, as that's what they have built to sell.

What I'd love to see - 125 class, 250 class, 450 / Open class , with Equivalency, with No age or 'time in class' restrictions. That's just complete Bull Shit. When will Luongo realize his 250 rules are gifting the US series with riders that want more time in, or a far better suited to the 250s?
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RG1
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8/29/2018 3:57am
Twigster wrote:
Luongo has been a vampire on the sport since he came into it, he's tried to make it a global series when the fanbase and support...
Luongo has been a vampire on the sport since he came into it, he's tried to make it a global series when the fanbase and support structure around it isn't strong enough to support that and now you see big teams and factory teams pulling out left, right and centre. If it wasn't for Red Bull and Monster energy the whole thing would have collapsed a couple of years ago and honestly, I'm not sure that would have been a bad thing. You can't take the sport away from it's heartlands, its traditions and drag it off to flat tracks in the desert and have it thrive. The guy thinks he's Bernie Ecclestone, only he's not as good at being Bernie as Bernie was and he doesn't have a strong sport behind him.

It's having a knock-on effect as well, mx is on it's backside in the UK because there are too many organising bodies, too many conflicting regs and even the pro nationals series here is struggling to get more than 30 riders on the start-line.
The problems with British MX don't really have anything to do with YS to be fair. It's more to do with every man and his dog thinking he can run a national series. It's absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately there's no one there to tell them they can't do it, so it's only going to get worse. Who is the British youth champion? Nobody knows as there is 8 of them
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Twigster
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8/29/2018 4:03am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 4:03am
Twigster wrote:
Luongo has been a vampire on the sport since he came into it, he's tried to make it a global series when the fanbase and support...
Luongo has been a vampire on the sport since he came into it, he's tried to make it a global series when the fanbase and support structure around it isn't strong enough to support that and now you see big teams and factory teams pulling out left, right and centre. If it wasn't for Red Bull and Monster energy the whole thing would have collapsed a couple of years ago and honestly, I'm not sure that would have been a bad thing. You can't take the sport away from it's heartlands, its traditions and drag it off to flat tracks in the desert and have it thrive. The guy thinks he's Bernie Ecclestone, only he's not as good at being Bernie as Bernie was and he doesn't have a strong sport behind him.

It's having a knock-on effect as well, mx is on it's backside in the UK because there are too many organising bodies, too many conflicting regs and even the pro nationals series here is struggling to get more than 30 riders on the start-line.
RG1 wrote:
The problems with British MX don't really have anything to do with YS to be fair. It's more to do with every man and his dog...
The problems with British MX don't really have anything to do with YS to be fair. It's more to do with every man and his dog thinking he can run a national series. It's absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately there's no one there to tell them they can't do it, so it's only going to get worse. Who is the British youth champion? Nobody knows as there is 8 of them
Yeah sorry, I should have clarified a bit better. What I mean is that YS and the GP series have made things so expensive that a lot of the old 'privateer' teams that used to get some factory backing now can't make all the races. That means they have nothing left to filter down to lower levels, so even in national series people are looking at stupid-scale budgets to try and put a bike or two on the grid. After that, I agree, too many governing bodies and too much disjointed series. I won't even get into track prep and the differences between them all there...
DeStouwer
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8/29/2018 4:38am
RG1 wrote:
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out...
They have to do something. Or MX2 will cease to be a thing, and we'll lose a lot of talented riders. 12 riders will age out after next season, and there is no chance that there will be that many spots in MXGP. Plus, there isn't 12 riders good enough to fill those rides. The age rule has served it's purpose in strengthening MXGP, but it's time to do something about it now.
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
RG1 wrote:
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if...
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if you're using MotoGP as a model, you still have to have the classes there for the riders to come through and make it to MXGP. Without MX2 or a lower class of some description, there's nowhere for the riders to develop. You're also losing a load of teams from the paddock. I honestly don't see MX2 going anywhere any time soon
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as the only world championship left with EMX250 and EMX125 as supporting classes. EMX300 will not last very much longer either.
Bearuno
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8/29/2018 4:53am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 4:57am
DeStouwer wrote:
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as...
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as the only world championship left with EMX250 and EMX125 as supporting classes. EMX300 will not last very much longer either.
So, you think there'll only be one World Championship Class?

You've got to be bloody kidding.

Yes, Luongo thinks he's got something like MotoGP on his hands.

There's a MotoGP World Champion, a Moto2 World Champion, and a Moto3 World Champion. Sure, 2 and 3 aren't as prestigious as MotoGP, but the MotoGP Champion comes through them.

You think we can't have more than one capacity class World Champion?

Is our sport so pathetic that we need to have just one class World Champion?

I think fucking Not.

Heck, if that's how it was, your compatriot Herlings would yet to be a World Champion, and this years (that I'm sure he'll get), would be his first. Perhaps you are a 'closeted' Luongo fan?
Motofinne
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8/29/2018 5:01am Edited Date/Time 8/29/2018 5:06am
I think the more interesting thing to talk about is David Luongo, not Giuseppe.

I mean Giuseppe is not getting younger and David is getting more and more responsibility. I would like to know his thoughts about the series and the future of world motocross.
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RG1
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8/29/2018 5:03am
DeStouwer wrote:
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best...
That is exactly what Luongo wants: one big class. He has stated this officially a few years back. He dreams of one class, where the best of the best race in, i.e. F1, MotoGP etc. He fails to see that MX never was or will be as big as F1 or MotoGP. MX2 is doomed to disappear, and this could be foreseen years ago. Just like the 650cc/MX3-class.
RG1 wrote:
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if...
Luongo is a lot of things and he has a lot of ideas that many don't agree with, but I don't think he's stupid. Even if you're using MotoGP as a model, you still have to have the classes there for the riders to come through and make it to MXGP. Without MX2 or a lower class of some description, there's nowhere for the riders to develop. You're also losing a load of teams from the paddock. I honestly don't see MX2 going anywhere any time soon
DeStouwer wrote:
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as...
I'm not saying that MX2-bikes will disappear from the world scene, I'm saying that MX2 and EMX250 will eventually evolve in one class, leaving MXGP as the only world championship left with EMX250 and EMX125 as supporting classes. EMX300 will not last very much longer either.
I'm fairly certain we will retain an MX2 world championship. It just has to change. I wouldn't be at all against combining MX2 and EMX250 and doing away with EMX250 altogether. You may as well do that with how MX2 is now. I've said this for a long time. Give MX2 the same rules as EMX250, ie. No age rule, reduce the entry fees so people can afford to enter and let people turn up and try to qualify. That way you have the prestigious MXGP class with all the top riders in it, but you have a competitive feeder class with great racing where privateers can turn up and try and get seen. I know its all pipe dream stuff but I would have done that a long time ago. Get rid of EMX250 and 300. Have the EMX125 class and then from there you can try your hand in MX2 GP's
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RG1
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8/29/2018 5:04am
Motofinne wrote:
I think the more interesting thing to talk about is David Luongo, not Giuseppe. I mean Giuseppe is not getting younger and David is getting more...
I think the more interesting thing to talk about is David Luongo, not Giuseppe.

I mean Giuseppe is not getting younger and David is getting more and more responsibility. I would like to know his thoughts about the series and the future of world motocross.
I've not seen a lot of things about him, but the things I have seen, he seems to be more sensible
Bearuno
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8/29/2018 5:09am
It's pretty rare that a child that goes into his Daddies business, has not been inculcated in said Daddies viewpoints, visions and schemes. Most often, they are even more set in those ways, and more invested with the sense of 'ownership' of things. And Papa certainly 'owns' MXGP.

But, you never know, Davide might truly love the sport - but Giuseppie claims that 'love', constantly.
chuckdavies
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8/29/2018 5:35am
RG1 wrote:
I'm fairly certain we will retain an MX2 world championship. It just has to change. I wouldn't be at all against combining MX2 and EMX250 and...
I'm fairly certain we will retain an MX2 world championship. It just has to change. I wouldn't be at all against combining MX2 and EMX250 and doing away with EMX250 altogether. You may as well do that with how MX2 is now. I've said this for a long time. Give MX2 the same rules as EMX250, ie. No age rule, reduce the entry fees so people can afford to enter and let people turn up and try to qualify. That way you have the prestigious MXGP class with all the top riders in it, but you have a competitive feeder class with great racing where privateers can turn up and try and get seen. I know its all pipe dream stuff but I would have done that a long time ago. Get rid of EMX250 and 300. Have the EMX125 class and then from there you can try your hand in MX2 GP's
This.
DeStouwer
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8/29/2018 5:43am
Bearuno wrote:
So, you think there'll only be one World Championship Class? You've got to be bloody kidding. Yes, Luongo thinks he's got something like MotoGP on his...
So, you think there'll only be one World Championship Class?

You've got to be bloody kidding.

Yes, Luongo thinks he's got something like MotoGP on his hands.

There's a MotoGP World Champion, a Moto2 World Champion, and a Moto3 World Champion. Sure, 2 and 3 aren't as prestigious as MotoGP, but the MotoGP Champion comes through them.

You think we can't have more than one capacity class World Champion?

Is our sport so pathetic that we need to have just one class World Champion?

I think fucking Not.

Heck, if that's how it was, your compatriot Herlings would yet to be a World Champion, and this years (that I'm sure he'll get), would be his first. Perhaps you are a 'closeted' Luongo fan?
I'm absolutely not a fan of Luongo, sir. This is just what he stated, what he wants, and what the world championship is evolving to more and more every year. In my opinion it's no longer a question of "if" but a question of "when".

I would like the GP's as they were in the 90s: two motos of 40mins + 2 laps, no entry fees, prize money for those who qualify, financial support for the oversea races, points for the first 15 riders out of 40 instead of 20 riders out of approximately 30, etc.

And for the record, Herlings is not my compatriot, I'm Belgian.
DeStouwer
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8/29/2018 6:20am
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me.

Ofcourse riders like Prado and Jonass are outstanding, that can't be denied, but the depth of the field gets weaker. Guys like Watson, Mewse, Cervellin, Jacobi etc. (who are all great riders) wouldn't come near their results they're able to perform now if the likes of a Ferrandis, Tixier, Paturel, Anstie, Guillod, Seewer or Lieber wouldn't be forced to MXGP or the USA. That's just a fact.
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Twigster
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8/29/2018 6:34am
DeStouwer wrote:
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me. Ofcourse riders like...
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me.

Ofcourse riders like Prado and Jonass are outstanding, that can't be denied, but the depth of the field gets weaker. Guys like Watson, Mewse, Cervellin, Jacobi etc. (who are all great riders) wouldn't come near their results they're able to perform now if the likes of a Ferrandis, Tixier, Paturel, Anstie, Guillod, Seewer or Lieber wouldn't be forced to MXGP or the USA. That's just a fact.
I think you're being more than a bit Harsh there. Watson and Mewse are both really, really young guys who have still got a massive amount of development room left in terms of progression. They are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute.
DeStouwer
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8/29/2018 6:52am
DeStouwer wrote:
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me. Ofcourse riders like...
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me.

Ofcourse riders like Prado and Jonass are outstanding, that can't be denied, but the depth of the field gets weaker. Guys like Watson, Mewse, Cervellin, Jacobi etc. (who are all great riders) wouldn't come near their results they're able to perform now if the likes of a Ferrandis, Tixier, Paturel, Anstie, Guillod, Seewer or Lieber wouldn't be forced to MXGP or the USA. That's just a fact.
Twigster wrote:
I think you're being more than a bit Harsh there. Watson and Mewse are both really, really young guys who have still got a massive amount...
I think you're being more than a bit Harsh there. Watson and Mewse are both really, really young guys who have still got a massive amount of development room left in terms of progression. They are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute.
Harsh, but true (imo). You're British, so I understand you defend them.

Mewse is injury-prone and mentally not the strongest. He had factory-equipment for 2 years at Husqvarna and hasn't broke through (yet) as a possible winner. Watson finally got consistent in his 3rd year of GP's.

You say "they are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute". That's the point I'm trying to make here. KTM and Husqvarna are by far the strongest in MX2 for the past years. This year even more than last. The top guys get a contract from either KTM or Husky, so the best riders get the best equipment, nothing new so far. But with the age-rule the gap between title contenders and top five contenders gets bigger year after year.

"Good things come soon" is a saying over here. Guys like Mewse and Watson are taking too long I'm afraid. When Prado and Jonass leave, other guys will take their place obviously. But it won't be Watson, Mewse, Cervellin or Jacobi like I mentioned before.

Don't get me wrong, you Britains still have a bunch of great riders who can make a good career in GP's. We Belgians have to put all of our hope on Geerts and maybe Everts, but he still has a long way to go.
1
Twigster
Posts
123
Joined
8/29/2018
Location
GB
8/29/2018 6:59am
DeStouwer wrote:
Harsh, but true (imo). You're British, so I understand you defend them. Mewse is injury-prone and mentally not the strongest. He had factory-equipment for 2 years...
Harsh, but true (imo). You're British, so I understand you defend them.

Mewse is injury-prone and mentally not the strongest. He had factory-equipment for 2 years at Husqvarna and hasn't broke through (yet) as a possible winner. Watson finally got consistent in his 3rd year of GP's.

You say "they are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute". That's the point I'm trying to make here. KTM and Husqvarna are by far the strongest in MX2 for the past years. This year even more than last. The top guys get a contract from either KTM or Husky, so the best riders get the best equipment, nothing new so far. But with the age-rule the gap between title contenders and top five contenders gets bigger year after year.

"Good things come soon" is a saying over here. Guys like Mewse and Watson are taking too long I'm afraid. When Prado and Jonass leave, other guys will take their place obviously. But it won't be Watson, Mewse, Cervellin or Jacobi like I mentioned before.

Don't get me wrong, you Britains still have a bunch of great riders who can make a good career in GP's. We Belgians have to put all of our hope on Geerts and maybe Everts, but he still has a long way to go.
Not sure it's anything to do with where I'm from, I don't let nationality cloud judgement. Personally I think Mewse was pushed into GP's at least a year too early after his youth form was so good and the injuries have taken a heavier toll because of that. That's why I think he still has the potential to come good if he gets a period without injury underneath him. Similarly with Watson, physically he's been miles better this year than previous years so next year will be a real test if Yamaha give them a bike that can run at the front.

Young Everts has some potential, but I think Stefan will be the most important part of how he comes along. If he's sensible (and there's every reason to think he is) then he will be patient and not put him into GPs before he's ready. Two more years and we will really know how prodigious a talent he is...
1
roninho
Posts
1622
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7/14/2015
Location
IT
8/29/2018 7:13am
DeStouwer wrote:
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me. Ofcourse riders like...
By the way, anyone who denies that the strength of the MX2-field is decreasing year after year, seems the "closeted Luongo-fan" to me.

Ofcourse riders like Prado and Jonass are outstanding, that can't be denied, but the depth of the field gets weaker. Guys like Watson, Mewse, Cervellin, Jacobi etc. (who are all great riders) wouldn't come near their results they're able to perform now if the likes of a Ferrandis, Tixier, Paturel, Anstie, Guillod, Seewer or Lieber wouldn't be forced to MXGP or the USA. That's just a fact.
I think that the talent level influx is actually pretty good. The outflow rate is just to high/to quick, and in the past you would get experienced guys back in 125/mx2 who were out of a good ride in 250/mx1/mxgp. Think of Puzar, Dobb, Malin, Masschio, chiodi, Moore, Tragter who all were way older then the current age limit when they had their biggest succes in 125's.

Nowadays you don't have that anymore. It looks like Anstie is out of a factory ride right now for MXGP, in the past he would have been a great pick for KTM to replace Jonass but Anstie isnt allowed. It's why guys like Dean Ferris, Guillod, etc. are out of GP's or have a crappy ride.

roninho
Posts
1622
Joined
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Location
IT
8/29/2018 7:17am
DeStouwer wrote:
Harsh, but true (imo). You're British, so I understand you defend them. Mewse is injury-prone and mentally not the strongest. He had factory-equipment for 2 years...
Harsh, but true (imo). You're British, so I understand you defend them.

Mewse is injury-prone and mentally not the strongest. He had factory-equipment for 2 years at Husqvarna and hasn't broke through (yet) as a possible winner. Watson finally got consistent in his 3rd year of GP's.

You say "they are both also on equipment that's nothing like as good as some of the guys ahead of them at the minute". That's the point I'm trying to make here. KTM and Husqvarna are by far the strongest in MX2 for the past years. This year even more than last. The top guys get a contract from either KTM or Husky, so the best riders get the best equipment, nothing new so far. But with the age-rule the gap between title contenders and top five contenders gets bigger year after year.

"Good things come soon" is a saying over here. Guys like Mewse and Watson are taking too long I'm afraid. When Prado and Jonass leave, other guys will take their place obviously. But it won't be Watson, Mewse, Cervellin or Jacobi like I mentioned before.

Don't get me wrong, you Britains still have a bunch of great riders who can make a good career in GP's. We Belgians have to put all of our hope on Geerts and maybe Everts, but he still has a long way to go.
Watson and Mewse are no Prado and Jonass. But i don't see how Watson cannot turn into a championship contender like Seewer was in his last year or Mewse turn into a top 5 points guy like Lieber was in his last year.

Geerts is the new Prado/Jonass, and Hofer will probable be the next.
DeStouwer
Posts
2732
Joined
2/17/2015
Location
BE
8/29/2018 7:23am
Twigster wrote:
Not sure it's anything to do with where I'm from, I don't let nationality cloud judgement. Personally I think Mewse was pushed into GP's at least...
Not sure it's anything to do with where I'm from, I don't let nationality cloud judgement. Personally I think Mewse was pushed into GP's at least a year too early after his youth form was so good and the injuries have taken a heavier toll because of that. That's why I think he still has the potential to come good if he gets a period without injury underneath him. Similarly with Watson, physically he's been miles better this year than previous years so next year will be a real test if Yamaha give them a bike that can run at the front.

Young Everts has some potential, but I think Stefan will be the most important part of how he comes along. If he's sensible (and there's every reason to think he is) then he will be patient and not put him into GPs before he's ready. Two more years and we will really know how prodigious a talent he is...
Because you pick those 2 out of the 4 I mentioned Wink You're right about Mewse about being pushed into GP's though.

I don't think you can blame it on the Yamaha this season. Kemea is the official Yamaha-team in MX2 and get all the support they need. Watson has been 4th overall more than once this season, so it could've been a lot more podiums. Geerts got two 3rds and a 2nd in a race in his first full season. Even could've won the second race in Latvia, France and Belgium. Brylyakov was pretty good aswell after being injured for so long and Rodríguez is doing excellent as a replacement rider (in a very depleted MX2-field due all the injuries to be fair).

But Mewse and Watson weren't the topic here after all.

Anyway, happy to be part of a discussion without it getting turned in a USA-Euro bash or calling each other names. Cheerio!
8/29/2018 7:25am
From the time it changed from MX1 to MXGP, I think Luongo's long term plans were set for it to replicate the MotoGP format. - 1...
From the time it changed from MX1 to MXGP, I think Luongo's long term plans were set for it to replicate the MotoGP format.

- 1 main class similar to MotoGP (MXGP)
- 1 support class similar to Moto 2 (possibly combining EMX250 and MX2)
- 2nd support class similar to Moto 3 (EMX125)

I can honestly see something like this happening. In his mind he wants to reach the masses and this setup could potentially make it easier for the non-fan to follow with only 2 races to watch on TV instead of 4 main ones. The more established fan then has the option via another TV channel possibly, or even MXGP-TV to watch the 2 support races.

You r right but it have already happend :/
brycepdh
Posts
413
Joined
11/3/2017
Location
Tasmania AU
8/29/2018 7:25am
roninho wrote:
I think that the talent level influx is actually pretty good. The outflow rate is just to high/to quick, and in the past you would get...
I think that the talent level influx is actually pretty good. The outflow rate is just to high/to quick, and in the past you would get experienced guys back in 125/mx2 who were out of a good ride in 250/mx1/mxgp. Think of Puzar, Dobb, Malin, Masschio, chiodi, Moore, Tragter who all were way older then the current age limit when they had their biggest succes in 125's.

Nowadays you don't have that anymore. It looks like Anstie is out of a factory ride right now for MXGP, in the past he would have been a great pick for KTM to replace Jonass but Anstie isnt allowed. It's why guys like Dean Ferris, Guillod, etc. are out of GP's or have a crappy ride.

Good thing Ferris has the ability to come home and get good money competing in the Australian nationals and I think he is reaching his peak in his career which for the case if Ferris were an euro he would be been out of a ride in the gps for a couple of years now like the situation for a lot of riders now. That’s why we need to lift the age rule for mx2. i believe ferris is now a solid top 3/5 rider in the GPs which has taken a couple of years longer to get to that level as many teams expecting in the GPs.

I fucking hate this sport that it damages a lot of careers like this but I will pour my heart into it and live for moto.
1

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