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Is that the same way we don't count MX2 because it is age limited, like a Loretta Lynn's championship? 🤔🤔🤔
sarcasm, sorta.
I wonder if Lucas stays another season in MXGP since the title is all but gone?
Or is USA already a done deal?
i'm a little bit afraid how far over the pain barrier those two go ...Lucas has a blocked nerve in his leg because of a compressed vertebra as far as i know? but he still finds courage to appear at the start two gp's, possible making that injury worser and taking it with him for the coming years. Then how Sacha is dealing with a broken colarbone 😮😮 ..i'm sheering for the two brothers but i hope they dont wreck their body's in a short period of time.
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I guess you can put enough qualifiers in to make almost anything work, but a regional championship is just that.
No worries, the entire discussion is purely subjective anyway!
I think that Ricky Johnson has a pretty good argument here. He came within a blown out wheel of winning the 82 250 National Championship when he was 17, and didn’t win his first title until after he turned 20.
Mark Barnett is a valid candidate as well.
Surprisingly, Jeff Stanton might fit into the criteria pretty well also.
Did the question change, again?
I think Coenen is a little young to even think about it that way.
GP's I'd say Sylvain Geboers, Kurt Nicole, Max Nagl, and a couple of others were fast for long periods but didn't win a title.
A few guys thought that with "currently" I meant of the current active riders (I guess?) and felt confused with the following "in history". I removed "for his age" too because it was actually irrelevant from my point, even if compared to riders who won one but later than at Coenen's current age what made the question interesting for me is the fact that I think he could be the fastest in general, of them included. I'm just trying to make it as simple as possible
I agree, with a bit more luck he should have been the MX2 champion in 2024 and MXGP champion last year, it was interesting to see him move up so early and so young without a title when Herlings stayed there three more years just to finally win his third title in 2016 and leave the class as the reigning champion
Haha, I needed a good laugh today lol
Good for you, what was difficult to understand in currently meaning that being active he could still win one and in history meaning comparing him to any other rider in the history of the sport I’m not sure. And you should be the native speaker…
Done deal...they're coming...
Copy that. It’s just struck me funny how the narrow criteria keeps narrowing. Coenen bros just had a costly experience at Southwick. Otherwise they would’ve won the GPs. So for “currently” with “history” beginning now, we can say they are the fastest without a title.
Well…it is why I personally don’t count camping in MX2 cherry picking wins towards being the all time MXGP rider. Cairoli IS the GOAT of MXGP!
I thought Stefan Everts was the GOAT?
People can’t agree on what counts as “fastest” when guys are racing head to head in the same series. You’d think that Webb was the fastest 450 supercross rider in 2025 because he won the champions but plenty of people say Sexton was faster. Hell, people were saying that Sexton was faster than Webb in races that Webb won. You’ve got fastest = got to the finish line first (this is the most natural way to I understand it, in terms of distance divided by the time taken) vs highest maximum speed or something like distance divided by time correcting for (excluding) certain mistakes or crashes (eg correct for things like time hung up on the starting gate). I don’t like imagining a world where the mistakes that happened and slowed a rider down didn’t happen - I’d rather stick to the actual world where gate mishaps and crashes reduce your average speed. If Webb won the race, he was fastest that race. But it makes perfect sense to say that someone else was faster than the champion that year because he missed races due to injury or illness, but won handily when actually racing. Now one can sort such things out if comparing riders in the same series. But how in the world can we meaningfully talk about who’s faster when they raced years or decades apart, and on different continents against different competitors when we can’t even always agree on who was fastest in a single race?
If someone can specify what counts a “fastest” for the purposes of this conversation and there can be at least a reasonable amount of agreement on it, then there’s a conversation to be had.
I personally count big bikes. If someone stays in the 250F class more than 1 year after 1st title…that’s either cherry picking, avoiding competition above you, or both. Either way….talking GOAT I look at 450s. All jmho.
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So the coenens looked unstoppable in the GPs until they came to the US. Both of them are gonna lose those championships now. Their speed wasnt impressive when they got back to Europe either. KTM europe has got to be disappointed
I don't like that table, 500cc > mx3, and good old 250 strokes became mx1 in my opinion, and Mx2 same as old 125 class
Agree, that table is cross rutted.
250cc in the Everts / Tortelli / Albertijn / Pichon / Coppins etc. era was the premier class which became MX1, which became MXGP and not MX2.
No
Jett was 15 when he raced EMX. He never raced a GP. Kinda tough to win something you never raced
Hunter did, won nothing.
Perhaps it was actually a good thing for the lawrence that they hadn't won anything in europa,,, that way,,,,expectations weren't as high as they are now for the coenens,,,,,,,,,,
What fucked up categorisation is that?
The 500 class becomes mxgp via 650cc? That just does not make sense. The 250 2t and then later mx1 and then mxgp should be combined. Everts is topping it.
Can not wait.
Hopefully they can get through SX, learn from it but make it to the outdoors healthy.
Truth. If the Coenen boys were not both leading the GPs when they came to the USA and had only won maybe a moto or two each, all year, there would not be all this talk.
Clearly, GP titles are not the be-all, end-all for these guys. And that is perfectly fine. People can live the life they want.
Post a reply to: Is Lucas Coenen, at the moment, the fastest rider in history without a title?