ET3 v JL

Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA US
6/23/2026 11:53am
Gravel wrote:
So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR...

So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR is substantially faster than 20 year old KR was.

The equipment might be better in the last 15 years, some techniques are definitely better, but fast is fast

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be...

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be as fast, I think he is far more consistent and a better championship contender.

Ken has completed 6 full SX seasons in the premier class. He likely would have secured another title if he had less injuries

  • 2014: 3
  • 2016: 2
  • 2019: 4
  • 2020: 3
  • 2021: 2
  • 2026: 1
jambalaya wrote:

Ken in 2016 is a lot better than he is now 

Does that mean that the field as a whole has gotten slower?

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jambalaya
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6/23/2026 12:10pm
I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be...

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be as fast, I think he is far more consistent and a better championship contender.

Ken has completed 6 full SX seasons in the premier class. He likely would have secured another title if he had less injuries

  • 2014: 3
  • 2016: 2
  • 2019: 4
  • 2020: 3
  • 2021: 2
  • 2026: 1
jambalaya wrote:

Ken in 2016 is a lot better than he is now 

Gravel wrote:

Does that mean that the field as a whole has gotten slower?

It just means that I think prime tomac or prime roczen compete with or beat Jett. 

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John813
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6/23/2026 12:28pm
Was watching some old 2015 nationals and ET3 was insane. Putting 60s+ on 2nd place.  He was on another planet. Got me thinking: does 2015 ET3...

Was watching some old 2015 nationals and ET3 was insane. Putting 60s+ on 2nd place.  He was on another planet. Got me thinking: does 2015 ET3 topple Jett? 

Discuss.

soggy wrote:

the next generations are almost always faster and better than the previous.  I think it would be competitive but Jett would come out on top.

8500rpm wrote:

Old people usually think their generation was fast. 

Jett (and many more riders today) are much faster than many top riders 15years ago. 

 

A bit OT, but I think in any sport, there's athletes that would of dominated in any era, especially when talking about training improvements and/or equipment improvements over the years. 

Like the NFL, Barry Sanders, Walter Payton or even Jim Brown would dominate in todays game. Dan Marino would be Mahomes out there etc.

Michael Jordan in the NBA, Gretzky in the NHL etc

I think the same could be said for a select few riders. RC, Eli, RV, Bubba etc all had that rare skill set during their prime. Competition as whole I agree gets better over time, but some athletes in my opinion would always stand out in any timeframe. they all had different techniques that made them great. Seeing prime Bubba on a current 450 would of been something. 

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1
USA
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Fantasy
6/23/2026 12:35pm

Jett would get beat and complain about bike setup just like last weekend at High Point. 

11

The Shop

soggy
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UT US
6/23/2026 12:37pm
Gravel wrote:
So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR...

So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR is substantially faster than 20 year old KR was.

The equipment might be better in the last 15 years, some techniques are definitely better, but fast is fast

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be...

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be as fast, I think he is far more consistent and a better championship contender.

Ken has completed 6 full SX seasons in the premier class. He likely would have secured another title if he had less injuries

  • 2014: 3
  • 2016: 2
  • 2019: 4
  • 2020: 3
  • 2021: 2
  • 2026: 1
jambalaya wrote:

Ken in 2016 is a lot better than he is now 

2016 Ken didn’t have 2 brutal arm/wrist injuries requiring double digit surgeries either. 
 

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6/23/2026 12:42pm
I’m thinking Eli should be back for Redbud! His practice mechanic posted this on his Instagram story 

I’m thinking Eli should be back for Redbud! His practice mechanic posted this on his Instagram story 

IMG 3555

I got excited when I saw this too, but I messaged Jade to see what this story meant and he said it was all for Jeremy Fappani, an Orange Brigade amatuer kid that trains with Eli sometimes. If you notice, Johnny T has been around Jeremy at the races even when Eli isn't racing. Sorry to ruin everyone's hopes and dreams.

8
Mavetism
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Hannover DE
6/23/2026 12:44pm
Gravel wrote:
So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR...

So you’re saying that KR is faster now than he was in 2014? He’s won championships across 12 years, I don’t think 32 year old KR is substantially faster than 20 year old KR was.

The equipment might be better in the last 15 years, some techniques are definitely better, but fast is fast

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be...

I would argue that Ken is just as fast or faster in a long term perspective. While his peak speed doesn't seem to me to be as fast, I think he is far more consistent and a better championship contender.

Ken has completed 6 full SX seasons in the premier class. He likely would have secured another title if he had less injuries

  • 2014: 3
  • 2016: 2
  • 2019: 4
  • 2020: 3
  • 2021: 2
  • 2026: 1
jambalaya wrote:

Ken in 2016 is a lot better than he is now 

He definitely had more peak speed, but also a little more inconsistent in SX. MX not even a question obviously (also can't compare that because he doesn't ride MX anymore). Kenny in 2016 together with 2015 Tomac and 2018 Herlings are probably the top 3 fastest guys we have seen in my opinion until Jett.

The fact that Kenny even got close to his level back then with the injuries and was still able to put in his best SX season yet 10 years later is crazy to me.

4
8500rpm
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SE
6/23/2026 12:50pm
USA wrote:

Jett would get beat and complain about bike setup just like last weekend at High Point. 

Old folks Smile (good old times) 

1
1
Flatliner
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6/23/2026 1:13pm

I’d rather have seen JMB vs Jett.

Era's wont work.   Nothing pre scrub is going to be as fast.

2
kevg805
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Nipomo, CA US
6/23/2026 1:49pm

Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.  
 thunder Valley
2015  ET3    2:06.165

2026  JL       2:02.514

It’s crazy that Honda has only managed to shave off a few seconds with all the changes they’ve made with the bike from 2015 to now. Maybe the mapping has gotten a little better at elevation with 10 years mapping and ecm work. 
 Either way, I’m a fan of both of them and want them to continue riding for as long as they can!
 

 

4
6
Mavetism
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6/23/2026 1:56pm
kevg805 wrote:
Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.   thunder Valley2015  ET3    2:06.1652026  JL       2:02.514It’s crazy...

Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.  
 thunder Valley
2015  ET3    2:06.165

2026  JL       2:02.514

It’s crazy that Honda has only managed to shave off a few seconds with all the changes they’ve made with the bike from 2015 to now. Maybe the mapping has gotten a little better at elevation with 10 years mapping and ecm work. 
 Either way, I’m a fan of both of them and want them to continue riding for as long as they can!
 

 

😂

8
NotTheStig
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Laramie, WY US
6/23/2026 2:12pm
kevg805 wrote:
Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.   thunder Valley2015  ET3    2:06.1652026  JL       2:02.514It’s crazy...

Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.  
 thunder Valley
2015  ET3    2:06.165

2026  JL       2:02.514

It’s crazy that Honda has only managed to shave off a few seconds with all the changes they’ve made with the bike from 2015 to now. Maybe the mapping has gotten a little better at elevation with 10 years mapping and ecm work. 
 Either way, I’m a fan of both of them and want them to continue riding for as long as they can!
 

 

The track layout is way different from 2015 to 2026, so comparing just the lap times doesn't really work.
 

10
1
Mavetism
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6/23/2026 2:14pm
kevg805 wrote:
Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.   thunder Valley2015  ET3    2:06.1652026  JL       2:02.514It’s crazy...

Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.  
 thunder Valley
2015  ET3    2:06.165

2026  JL       2:02.514

It’s crazy that Honda has only managed to shave off a few seconds with all the changes they’ve made with the bike from 2015 to now. Maybe the mapping has gotten a little better at elevation with 10 years mapping and ecm work. 
 Either way, I’m a fan of both of them and want them to continue riding for as long as they can!
 

 

NotTheStig wrote:

The track layout is way different from 2015 to 2026, so comparing just the lap times doesn't really work.
 

Bro..

4
Teejay
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6/23/2026 2:18pm
Press516 wrote:
I have always said that 2015 Eli was the fastest I have ever seen anyone be on a motocross bike...  But that blazing speed only lasted...

I have always said that 2015 Eli was the fastest I have ever seen anyone be on a motocross bike...  But that blazing speed only lasted 5 motos.  

Hangtown moto 2 was remarkable, lapping 5 to 7 seconds faster than anyone else and 15 seconds a lap over anyone not in the top 3-5, and winning by over 90 seconds.  

I’ve just rewatched moto 2 from Hangtown 2015, it was like Tomac was in fast forward, I’d forgot just how insane he was riding the start of that season.  History tells us it wasn’t sustainable but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone before or since get round a track at that speed, just incredible. 

4
2stroked
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6/23/2026 2:22pm

I was at glen helen in 2015. Very excited to watch ET3 after watching what he did at hangtown for round 1. He was just different for that three weeks until he went down at thunder valley. 

Ive watched Bubba, RV2, RC4 in person at their peaks, and ET3 rode that honda differently than anything Ive ever seen. JL rides his bike with such an incredible finesse and purposeful decision making. He is very fluidic, and the most efficient racer Ive ever seen.

2015 May ET3 was not human. He rode that honda like he was angry at the world. His lines were unlike anything anyone else was doing. He was easily a gear higher everywhere at Glen Helen. Justin Barcia got 2nd that day, and as fast as Barcia and Dungey were, it wasnt close to ET3. Even Barcia's normal over rev wasnt comparable to ET3 bouncing off the rev limiter everywhere. 

2015 ET3 vs 2024 JL? I think ET3 wins. JL is so smooth and efficient. However 2015 ET3 was an animal who pushed the pace to levels that no one was comfortable riding at. Look at what happened with JL when ET3 pushed him at pala last year. JL even said he didnt want to go any faster than that for much longer. 2015 ET3 would put so much pressure on JL, Im convinced JL would eventually back it off and settle for 2nd. No one in 2026, 2015, or ever, wants to go as fast as ET3 did that month.

7
1
6/23/2026 2:32pm
I’m thinking Eli should be back for Redbud! His practice mechanic posted this on his Instagram story 

I’m thinking Eli should be back for Redbud! His practice mechanic posted this on his Instagram story 

IMG 3555
I got excited when I saw this too, but I messaged Jade to see what this story meant and he said it was all for Jeremy...

I got excited when I saw this too, but I messaged Jade to see what this story meant and he said it was all for Jeremy Fappani, an Orange Brigade amatuer kid that trains with Eli sometimes. If you notice, Johnny T has been around Jeremy at the races even when Eli isn't racing. Sorry to ruin everyone's hopes and dreams.

Maaaaaaaaaan. I was really hopeful to see him shred at Redbud next weekend 

4
kevg805
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Location
Nipomo, CA US
6/23/2026 3:38pm
kevg805 wrote:
Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.   thunder Valley2015  ET3    2:06.1652026  JL       2:02.514It’s crazy...

Both et3 and JL are freaks of nature. It’s interesting to compare both of them.  
 thunder Valley
2015  ET3    2:06.165

2026  JL       2:02.514

It’s crazy that Honda has only managed to shave off a few seconds with all the changes they’ve made with the bike from 2015 to now. Maybe the mapping has gotten a little better at elevation with 10 years mapping and ecm work. 
 Either way, I’m a fan of both of them and want them to continue riding for as long as they can!
 

 

NotTheStig wrote:

The track layout is way different from 2015 to 2026, so comparing just the lap times doesn't really work.
 

You’re right the tracks were not the same. Jett had an opportunity to ride a shorter track.

Since this is some made up imaginary who's faster thread on the Internet The only answer is put them both on a STOCK 2008 CRF450R… have 2015 ET3 travel back in time to 2008 so he could be in that condition he was in in 2015… And pick up 2024 JL along the way while traveling back in time… but before they get too far back in time turn off of Highway 101 at Zaca station. And have a real wild West shootout head-to-head three lap challenge….. no whole shot device no scoop tire no traction control…. Could you imagine? 😂

1
6/23/2026 3:40pm

I’d rather have seen JMB vs Jett.

Flatliner wrote:

Era's wont work.   Nothing pre scrub is going to be as fast.

JMB would go from never scrubbing in his life to scrubbing better than anyone on the planet in <30 seconds and on a 500 2-stroke.

6
Sully
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6/23/2026 4:03pm

I’d rather have seen JMB vs Jett.

Flatliner wrote:

Era's wont work.   Nothing pre scrub is going to be as fast.

JMB would go from never scrubbing in his life to scrubbing better than anyone on the planet in <30 seconds and on a 500 2-stroke.

And he'd look like he was on a trail ride while he did it, too.

5
VetRider97
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6/23/2026 4:13pm
Falcon wrote:
2015 Eli would spank 99.9% of all riders in history. Jett may have a chance, because I feel like he could go faster than he is...

2015 Eli would spank 99.9% of all riders in history. Jett may have a chance, because I feel like he could go faster than he is doing now if he got pushed. And obviously, RC would win or die trying. Stewart could maybe hang in there, but even for him, it would be very hard. 

I was lucky enough to see Eli at Glen Helen in 2015 and let me tell you, it was mind boggling. 

2015 Pre-Injury ET would dust them all. Was doing Jett stuff before Jett. Was blazing fast like JS. Could push for 35 minutes like RC and RD. 

3
1
joshd
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6/23/2026 4:19pm

No one is beating prime ET and I’ll die on that hill. 

9
2
6/23/2026 4:37pm
Flatliner wrote:

Era's wont work.   Nothing pre scrub is going to be as fast.

JMB would go from never scrubbing in his life to scrubbing better than anyone on the planet in <30 seconds and on a 500 2-stroke.

Sully wrote:

And he'd look like he was on a trail ride while he did it, too.

100%. JMB is probably the most talented motorcycle racer of all time. Imagine if Jett retired this season then joined MotoGP next season and was qualifying on pole 😂

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6/23/2026 6:08pm

I had the privilege of seeing JMB at Millville in 1991.  The thing that never seemed to make any sense is how he could just finesse the 500 2-stroke.  He never really seemed like a big strong guy.  And everyone knows those 500’s were no joke.  Goes to show that technique was everything.  He found lines that nobody else did.

My theory is - it would’ve been much easier for JMB to adapt to a 450 4-stroke than the current top 5 in the 450 class to adapt to a 500.

3
6/23/2026 8:14pm

Maaaaaaaaaan. I was really hopeful to see him shred at Redbud next weekend 

Same, hope he’s back for millville at least.

1
dboivin
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6/23/2026 8:32pm

Rookie year Jett went undefeated.  Rookie year Tomac did not.  That pretty much sums it up.

did jet win in his first nation debut?? just curious, dont know the answer. i do know tomac won his.

kpiper
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6/23/2026 9:09pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2026 9:10pm

ET's crash in 2015 didn't seem to me it was from going too fast. Just one of those things that sometimes happen. Slightly off line and it kicked. Eli said he didn't feel like he was riding over his head at all that day. Saw Barcia, soon after, make almost the exact same crash in the same spot, just he got lucky and walked away. Dicey spot on the track.

1
Wo Phat
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6/23/2026 9:26pm
Was watching some old 2015 nationals and ET3 was insane. Putting 60s+ on 2nd place.  He was on another planet. Got me thinking: does 2015 ET3...

Was watching some old 2015 nationals and ET3 was insane. Putting 60s+ on 2nd place.  He was on another planet. Got me thinking: does 2015 ET3 topple Jett? 

Discuss.

30minmotos wrote:
ET3 this summer was going to be a monster on that Ktm.. Damn his bad luck. Hes been saying since he first rode it he can’t wait...

ET3 this summer was going to be a monster on that Ktm.. Damn his bad luck. 


Hes been saying since he first rode it he can’t wait to get it outdoors, and when you see his Daytona form and early sx form…

Deadric wrote:
I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but...

I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but I just don't see it happening in MX anymore outside of a race here and there. The Hunta brothers are just on another level than anyone other than the rare occasion Sexton is on his game.

Back on topic though. 2015 (and 2022) Tomac would give any rider in the sports history all they could handle. 

unfortunately Pala qualifying is all we can compare....seems like Eli is off Lawrence pace although i do believe he races faster than he qualifies. hate he crashed and got hurt

1
kpiper
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6/23/2026 10:05pm
30minmotos wrote:
ET3 this summer was going to be a monster on that Ktm.. Damn his bad luck. Hes been saying since he first rode it he can’t wait...

ET3 this summer was going to be a monster on that Ktm.. Damn his bad luck. 


Hes been saying since he first rode it he can’t wait to get it outdoors, and when you see his Daytona form and early sx form…

Deadric wrote:
I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but...

I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but I just don't see it happening in MX anymore outside of a race here and there. The Hunta brothers are just on another level than anyone other than the rare occasion Sexton is on his game.

Back on topic though. 2015 (and 2022) Tomac would give any rider in the sports history all they could handle. 

Wo Phat wrote:
unfortunately Pala qualifying is all we can compare....seems like Eli is off Lawrence pace although i do believe he races faster than he qualifies. hate he...

unfortunately Pala qualifying is all we can compare....seems like Eli is off Lawrence pace although i do believe he races faster than he qualifies. hate he crashed and got hurt

Does anyone know why Eli was so far off in Pala qualifying? Because he got hurt, we never heard anything about it.

1
SoCalMX70
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Thousand Oaks, CA US
6/23/2026 10:19pm
Deadric wrote:
I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but...

I know racing and qualifying are completely different but Tomac was 6 seconds off the pace at Fox. I think he can compete in SX but I just don't see it happening in MX anymore outside of a race here and there. The Hunta brothers are just on another level than anyone other than the rare occasion Sexton is on his game.

Back on topic though. 2015 (and 2022) Tomac would give any rider in the sports history all they could handle. 

Wo Phat wrote:
unfortunately Pala qualifying is all we can compare....seems like Eli is off Lawrence pace although i do believe he races faster than he qualifies. hate he...

unfortunately Pala qualifying is all we can compare....seems like Eli is off Lawrence pace although i do believe he races faster than he qualifies. hate he crashed and got hurt

kpiper wrote:

Does anyone know why Eli was so far off in Pala qualifying? Because he got hurt, we never heard anything about it.

He rode hurt for half the supercross season. He never got himself back to 100% before Pala and his qualifying times were the least surprising thing to me. Feels like everyone got amnesia about Tomac's less than stellar rides indoors for the second half (plus missing races!).

Would have been nice to see how he stacked up to Deegan with a decent start. We may see it yet if he manages to come back healed up (for real this time).

3

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