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I know we are few and far between but I've been doing this for 20 years.
Ive seen people pay good money to have hacks "fix" their bike and now they have to pay me again to fix it right. We stand behind anything we do and will make it right if it isnt. This industry is full of people who have no clue how to keep a machine going but think because they change the oil and clean their air filter they can do my job for half the money.
What im trying to say is the gap has to be between .038" and .078" or 1-1.99mm. Its not like the bars are moving in the clamps when tightened or you can see daylight between the bar and the inner diameter of the clamps.
Its not that cut and dry in this case.
I should have quoted Tyler.
I understand you perfectly. My example is one of "go-no go".
If .039 is minimum, then .038 is no good. No one can see that .001.
oh. that gaps even easier to spot then. yes, you can tell the difference between a 2mm and a 1mm gap in a clamp gap. or even easier, between a 1.1 and 0.1. sorry hondatech that my name isn't 'built-a-thousand-bikes-tech' and thus i guess i have no credibility.
a jury WOULD blame the manufacturer, but if the jury finds that a reasonable technician would and could discover said defect in the course of the performance of their duties, the dealer would ALSO be found jointly liable, should the plaintiff choose to join them to the suit.
~1mm gap delta here. you cant tell the difference between a 4mm bolt and a 5mm bolt? a 2mm allen key and a 3mm?
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you mean could you see a difference between something like 5.000in and 5.039. no. it's easier to spot the larger the poportion of the total gap percentage the tolerance is.
Not getting what you are saying, or if your decimals are in the right place, but I'm saying that you can't see a few thou difference in a gap, and it requires a feeler gauge.
I've never seen anyone gauge a bar clamp gap. Maybe they do in a factory race setting, but that isn't happening in make-ready.
There isn't even a spec in the original manual according to that pic HT25 posted.
And when they tell you no what do you do. If they come up with a proper fix you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a lawsuit.
I got you. I'm speculating but I suspect strongly there is a very marked difference between the bad batches and the good ones, despite whatever the recall says for CYA purposes, rather than a gradient of examples.
The tech would be looking for a torque spec, not a faulty part.
I'm gunna blame the tech for my 2014 CRF250R that burned oil from day one too. Can't believe he didn't check the valve stem seals to make sure they were free of defects.
Would you really buy a dirtbike from a dealer and just go rip it without doing your own prep?
The amount of people that post things like ‘picked up my new bike and went to GH, didn’t even set the sag!’ Would lead me to believe many (most) do.
You shouldn’t have to.
Just to bag on Honda a little, my 95 CR250 had a fork recall and two service bulletins about a coolant blockage and a crankshaft that could explode. I knew about them BEFORE January 1995 and they sent parts.
Absolutely not. And that's because I know the level of non-service I am receiving for the steep assembly fee I pay. You've helped make my point.
Unfortunately, there are many other buyers who are not as experienced and mechanically savvy and they are trusting that their money is actually buying them some level of expected expertise.
I used metallurgy and an example of something that could be recalled. Not specifically detailing this recall. If the picture you posted is true, a tech should catch that.....but would they? I would give it 50/50.
Salesman did that when I bought my last bike, and I told him to go get another one and to not do that bullshit again. It was a pain in the ass because the vin was already on all the paperwork. Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson, but doubt it.
This is exactly what I don't understand. If you tightened your bar clamps and they bottomed before getting tight, would you not know that something is wrong? I think most joe blow backyard mechanic's know this. I don't think it is that unreasonable that a technician would absolutely? I dunno, not trying to be pesky either way, people also just make mistakes. It's also probably not the dealers responsibility to fix and check for manufacturer flaws. I pull my bikes down in the living room when they are still brand new for three reasons, so I know how to do it and what tools I need when I am out and about, check for grease, check for tight bolts (especially on parts assembled at the dealer). Last 2 have been the best I have ever gotten off the floor, but I have seen some pretty bad new bikes. I feel like that would be pretty obvious, but who knows. That is absolutely terrible someone lost their life.
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Who here has honestly checked the clamps on their new bikes for this problem. Past and present included.
I have. Back in the ‘70’s & ‘80’s. If I saw they bottomed out, I took the clamps off and filed or ground some off so there was still clearance between top and bottom when they were tight. I guess I am the rare guy to notice that. 🤷🏼♂️
Is it not possible technicians were the ones who noticed and reported it?
It would be quite easy for a technician to spot the difference between 1mm gap and no gap at all which appears to be the problem in this case.
The difference in the allowable gap is .99m, its not nothing or 1mm.
The gap can be between 1-1.99mm, anything smaller or larger is a fail. Nobody is verifying that with their naked eye. I had 2 the other day 1 passed and 1 failed, you couldn't tell a visible difference between the 2. Its not that cut and dry.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.
Maybe it's because I have spent most of my career dealing with very small measurements, and it comes naturally now, I don't know.
what were teh respective gaps?
You can eyeball the difference between .99mm and 1mm?
Absolutely. I check a hell of a lot more than that.
its the difference between 1 mm and 2mm. Yes, you should be able to at least see that it is suspect with the naked eye.
Hell no, this has been my argument the whole time.
I think I answered this in a prior post. Something being tight isn't binary, because there are more choices between floppy and Excalibur's sword in stone. I don't understand how everyone suddenly forgot this. Literally every one of us has snugged something to where it's held in place, then forgot to go back and tighten it. If snugged gets the job done, then just snug your axle nut and go ride. The wheel won't flop around and you'll even be able to ride it up and down the street, therefore it must be fine...?
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