Panic Button for Chase/Kawi?

aees wrote:

In really would like to hear your logical explanation to why his results vary so much.You don't think, it is exactly what I wrote above? I...

In really would like to hear your logical explanation to why his results vary so much.

You don't think, it is exactly what I wrote above? I don't know if you follow the sport, but this happens every year after about 8-10 races in. Riders put health over results in SX specifically. If you have missed that, not sure what you have been watching 🤦

Jkawi wrote:

I will take a stab at that.I think he took advantage of everyone easing into the season following the old "you can't win the championship at...

I will take a stab at that.

I think he took advantage of everyone easing into the season following the old "you can't win the championship at round 1, but you can lose it" method. That combined with a renewed mental approach and the need to show the world he can ride fast probably had him peaking the exact opposite of everyone else.

I also don't think your explanation explains why he goes backwards in every race now. If he was just mailing it in, wouldn't he finish in the spot he started, relatively? Can you explain that one to me?

aees wrote:

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to...

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to argue he doesn't have the speed.

You will go in a pace you are sure you won't crash in. I think there is plenty of examples of riders crashing last few weeks that could have benefited from dropping the pace and not risking it. Shouldn't forget that he is one out of few that doesn't care about money and bonuses in SX, and just a few that don't have to race for a renewed contract. All of them will still go for it more than Prado.

You don't think Chase could do better, if he really needed? Same thing there. Risk, motivation.

tek14 wrote:

Only Keefer would know. He seems to be only guy defending Kawasaki right now. 

BossWool2800 wrote:

So it sounds like the issue centers around the sluggish motor and steeper head angle compared to the previous model (‘23 and prior). Most likely similar...

So it sounds like the issue centers around the sluggish motor and steeper head angle compared to the previous model (‘23 and prior). Most likely similar to Chase’s first Honda 450, that even Jett could only ride at 70-80% because of its quick steering front end. 

Even so, there are riders making it work.

Jkawi wrote:

I will take a stab at that.I think he took advantage of everyone easing into the season following the old "you can't win the championship at...

I will take a stab at that.

I think he took advantage of everyone easing into the season following the old "you can't win the championship at round 1, but you can lose it" method. That combined with a renewed mental approach and the need to show the world he can ride fast probably had him peaking the exact opposite of everyone else.

I also don't think your explanation explains why he goes backwards in every race now. If he was just mailing it in, wouldn't he finish in the spot he started, relatively? Can you explain that one to me?

aees wrote:

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to...

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to argue he doesn't have the speed.

You will go in a pace you are sure you won't crash in. I think there is plenty of examples of riders crashing last few weeks that could have benefited from dropping the pace and not risking it. Shouldn't forget that he is one out of few that doesn't care about money and bonuses in SX, and just a few that don't have to race for a renewed contract. All of them will still go for it more than Prado.

You don't think Chase could do better, if he really needed? Same thing there. Risk, motivation.

Jkawi wrote:

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could...

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could be fast if he wanted to, but he's too scared to hang it out? I guess the argument isn't about the actions of anybody, its whether or not you think that is lame for a professional MX/SX racer, or if you admire that. He wont win any championships that way, that's for sure.

And I think Chase suffers from the same dysfunctional entitlement that Prado does. He isn't willing to try unless he has everything he wants. SO yes, I do think Chase could (and should) be doing better regardless of the bike he is on.

I think Chase should do a showdown with Carson Brown on an old clapped out air-cooled Honda. 

aees wrote:

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to...

Going 4th in the 9th round isn't when top riders is still easing into it. He has been fastest in qualifying, so a bit hard to argue he doesn't have the speed.

You will go in a pace you are sure you won't crash in. I think there is plenty of examples of riders crashing last few weeks that could have benefited from dropping the pace and not risking it. Shouldn't forget that he is one out of few that doesn't care about money and bonuses in SX, and just a few that don't have to race for a renewed contract. All of them will still go for it more than Prado.

You don't think Chase could do better, if he really needed? Same thing there. Risk, motivation.

Jkawi wrote:

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could...

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could be fast if he wanted to, but he's too scared to hang it out? I guess the argument isn't about the actions of anybody, its whether or not you think that is lame for a professional MX/SX racer, or if you admire that. He wont win any championships that way, that's for sure.

And I think Chase suffers from the same dysfunctional entitlement that Prado does. He isn't willing to try unless he has everything he wants. SO yes, I do think Chase could (and should) be doing better regardless of the bike he is on.

I think Chase should do a showdown with Carson Brown on an old clapped out air-cooled Honda. 

DonM wrote:

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George...

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George on the KTM when in reality “mailing it in” is no different than quitting…there is nobody else on a factory bike pulling holeshots and then fading to the back of the pack more consistently than George.

Jkawi wrote:

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could...

I am no longer sure what your argument is. Prado "mails it in" way too often to be at the front? That's the argument? He could be fast if he wanted to, but he's too scared to hang it out? I guess the argument isn't about the actions of anybody, its whether or not you think that is lame for a professional MX/SX racer, or if you admire that. He wont win any championships that way, that's for sure.

And I think Chase suffers from the same dysfunctional entitlement that Prado does. He isn't willing to try unless he has everything he wants. SO yes, I do think Chase could (and should) be doing better regardless of the bike he is on.

I think Chase should do a showdown with Carson Brown on an old clapped out air-cooled Honda. 

DonM wrote:

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George...

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George on the KTM when in reality “mailing it in” is no different than quitting…there is nobody else on a factory bike pulling holeshots and then fading to the back of the pack more consistently than George.

aees wrote:

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say...

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say 😄 

Any reason why Jett is not riding these SX races when he is doing 30min Motos? Or Barcia really not wanting to go back but team pushed him.

Riders stay out of racing all the time, to not risk anything if there is nothing in it for them.

But I guess you are one of those that think staying at home from work is better than going there and doing some effort 🤦

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Yes, I do. unless Chase shows up on a Star Yamaha at Pala, he will not beat those three a single moto where there isn’t a...

Yes, I do. unless Chase shows up on a Star Yamaha at Pala, he will not beat those three a single moto where there isn’t a crash or mechanical 

Johnny Ringo wrote:

Yes, I do. unless Chase shows up on a Star Yamaha at Pala, he will not beat those three a single moto where there isn’t a...

Yes, I do. unless Chase shows up on a Star Yamaha at Pala, he will not beat those three a single moto where there isn’t a crash or mechanical 

FroDiddy wrote:

After what we saw from Prado last season and his comments about feeling unsafe on the bike - I agree with you.  It is very likely...

After what we saw from Prado last season and his comments about feeling unsafe on the bike - I agree with you.  

It is very likely that Chase will struggle mightily.  

DonM wrote:

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest...

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest laps of the race.

Your boy is doing the exact opposite by starting up front and then mailing it in/quitting for a tail end finish 

Jett just got back on the bike, a talus injury isn’t an injury you jump into SX with after a few weeks on the bike that is just a stupid analogy….

Some effort you talking about George? Or did you mean to say lack of effort because that is what I see….

DonM wrote:

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest...

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest laps of the race.

Your boy is doing the exact opposite by starting up front and then mailing it in/quitting for a tail end finish 

Jett just got back on the bike, a talus injury isn’t an injury you jump into SX with after a few weeks on the bike that is just a stupid analogy….

Some effort you talking about George? Or did you mean to say lack of effort because that is what I see….

ando wrote:

You don’t get 4 world titles through a lack of effort.  It’s somewhat curious to me that he gets a start then fades but I’m also...

You don’t get 4 world titles through a lack of effort.  It’s somewhat curious to me that he gets a start then fades but I’m also not forgetting it’s his first ever full season of SX and first season on a new bike.  

MX is his forte and he now has all the pieces together to show what he has outdoors.  It’s not unreasonable to think that’s he’s treading carefully until then.

I’ll reserve my judgement until after the MX season.

DonM wrote:

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest...

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest laps of the race.

Your boy is doing the exact opposite by starting up front and then mailing it in/quitting for a tail end finish 

Jett just got back on the bike, a talus injury isn’t an injury you jump into SX with after a few weeks on the bike that is just a stupid analogy….

Some effort you talking about George? Or did you mean to say lack of effort because that is what I see….

ando wrote:

You don’t get 4 world titles through a lack of effort.  It’s somewhat curious to me that he gets a start then fades but I’m also...

You don’t get 4 world titles through a lack of effort.  It’s somewhat curious to me that he gets a start then fades but I’m also not forgetting it’s his first ever full season of SX and first season on a new bike.  

MX is his forte and he now has all the pieces together to show what he has outdoors.  It’s not unreasonable to think that’s he’s treading carefully until then.

I’ll reserve my judgement until after the MX season.

BossWool2800 wrote:

All this talk of the KX is making me want one. 

Cayden Thompson wrote:

I mean they're good bikes for us slowpokes. 

Jkawi wrote:

I get it (and i like the analogy btw), but I just can't believe that if the bike was as bad as people are making it...

I get it (and i like the analogy btw), but I just can't believe that if the bike was as bad as people are making it out to be, that you wouldn't be able to tell that through the cloudiest of judgment.

I understand the team at Kawi is probably dysfunctional, and I get it could have some effect by way of stress or something, but can management really have that big of an effect on Chases ability to ride the bike? What else is it about management (other than bike changes) that could have such a big affect on one persons performance?

The Wolf Man wrote:

All of the factors listed - the bike, team issues, team intransigence - probably have a bearing, but the one common denominator is Chase himself. He's...

All of the factors listed - the bike, team issues, team intransigence - probably have a bearing, but the one common denominator is Chase himself. He's had similiar issues with every 450 team he's been with.

My theory is Jett Lawrence is massively in his head. He knows he can't really beat him on a regular basis and rather than accept this - and in order to continue being motivated - he has made up this imaginary mythical bike set-up existing 'somewhere' that can 'match' his 'real' speed. Therefore, he doesn't have to accept his own deficiencies. 

aees wrote:

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on...

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. 

Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on the kawi in outdoors. I think the Kawi is not even close to being in the window and riders feel that right away. As Carmichael said, he could feel a new headpipe wasn't going to work riding from the pits to the track.

I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level of setup to beat him since they are down on talent, starts and other things. I mean Webb went back to 2025 bike when he heard Jett was out, no more searching to try and get a better setup.

The Wolf Man wrote:

All of the factors listed - the bike, team issues, team intransigence - probably have a bearing, but the one common denominator is Chase himself. He's...

All of the factors listed - the bike, team issues, team intransigence - probably have a bearing, but the one common denominator is Chase himself. He's had similiar issues with every 450 team he's been with.

My theory is Jett Lawrence is massively in his head. He knows he can't really beat him on a regular basis and rather than accept this - and in order to continue being motivated - he has made up this imaginary mythical bike set-up existing 'somewhere' that can 'match' his 'real' speed. Therefore, he doesn't have to accept his own deficiencies. 

aees wrote:

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on...

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. 

Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on the kawi in outdoors. I think the Kawi is not even close to being in the window and riders feel that right away. As Carmichael said, he could feel a new headpipe wasn't going to work riding from the pits to the track.

I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level of setup to beat him since they are down on talent, starts and other things. I mean Webb went back to 2025 bike when he heard Jett was out, no more searching to try and get a better setup.

BossWool2800 wrote:

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat...

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat him. 

BossWool2800 wrote:

All this talk of the KX is making me want one. 

Cayden Thompson wrote:

I mean they're good bikes for us slowpokes. 

BossWool2800 wrote:

Everyone who’s ridden one likes it. Keefer said it pretty much been his “go-to” bike for awhile (about 40sec in).
 

 

DonM wrote:

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George...

Like I said before…he really doesn’t have an argument he just wants Chase to quit so it justifies George’s quitting. He will make excuses for George on the KTM when in reality “mailing it in” is no different than quitting…there is nobody else on a factory bike pulling holeshots and then fading to the back of the pack more consistently than George.

aees wrote:

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say...

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say 😄 

Any reason why Jett is not riding these SX races when he is doing 30min Motos? Or Barcia really not wanting to go back but team pushed him.

Riders stay out of racing all the time, to not risk anything if there is nothing in it for them.

But I guess you are one of those that think staying at home from work is better than going there and doing some effort 🤦

DonM wrote:

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest...

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest laps of the race.

Your boy is doing the exact opposite by starting up front and then mailing it in/quitting for a tail end finish 

Jett just got back on the bike, a talus injury isn’t an injury you jump into SX with after a few weeks on the bike that is just a stupid analogy….

Some effort you talking about George? Or did you mean to say lack of effort because that is what I see….

aees wrote:

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on...

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. 

Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on the kawi in outdoors. I think the Kawi is not even close to being in the window and riders feel that right away. As Carmichael said, he could feel a new headpipe wasn't going to work riding from the pits to the track.

I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level of setup to beat him since they are down on talent, starts and other things. I mean Webb went back to 2025 bike when he heard Jett was out, no more searching to try and get a better setup.

BossWool2800 wrote:

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat...

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat him. 

ando wrote:

It’s funny how setup issues appear out of nowhere when you start getting beaten regularly.

aees wrote:

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on...

Problem wasn't same on Honda or KTM. I mean he went from last to first on the KTM. 

Don't see him coming anywhere close to that on the kawi in outdoors. I think the Kawi is not even close to being in the window and riders feel that right away. As Carmichael said, he could feel a new headpipe wasn't going to work riding from the pits to the track.

I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level of setup to beat him since they are down on talent, starts and other things. I mean Webb went back to 2025 bike when he heard Jett was out, no more searching to try and get a better setup.

BossWool2800 wrote:

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat...

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat him. 

ando wrote:

It’s funny how setup issues appear out of nowhere when you start getting beaten regularly.

BossWool2800 wrote:

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat...

100% agree with this - “I think Jett is causing issues for all riders because they will need to have a Tomac 2015 level…” to beat him. 

ando wrote:

It’s funny how setup issues appear out of nowhere when you start getting beaten regularly.

aees wrote:

All these riders are on the same level, besides Jett. Bike setup is the key determining factor if everyone is healthy, together with starts."Just ride the...

All these riders are on the same level, besides Jett. Bike setup is the key determining factor if everyone is healthy, together with starts.

"Just ride the bike" worked 25y ago. 

Way to many examples. Gajser at Yamaha now, Webb going back to 2025 setup, Sexton right now, Jett taking a third because shock setting was off a bit. Tomac with the KTM. Prados switch. Roczen after 7y with the same chassi has finally stopped chasing it after swapping suspension partners, and as late as 3 or 4 weeks ago for the clutch dialed. After 7 years with same model?!

aees wrote:

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say...

So you are on the other side of the spectrum. If you don't see that Chase has given up already I'm not sure what to say 😄 

Any reason why Jett is not riding these SX races when he is doing 30min Motos? Or Barcia really not wanting to go back but team pushed him.

Riders stay out of racing all the time, to not risk anything if there is nothing in it for them.

But I guess you are one of those that think staying at home from work is better than going there and doing some effort 🤦

DonM wrote:

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest...

Chase giving up? I see him coming from last place starts moving to the front and sometimes while doing so setting the some of the fastest laps of the race.

Your boy is doing the exact opposite by starting up front and then mailing it in/quitting for a tail end finish 

Jett just got back on the bike, a talus injury isn’t an injury you jump into SX with after a few weeks on the bike that is just a stupid analogy….

Some effort you talking about George? Or did you mean to say lack of effort because that is what I see….

aees wrote:

I'm sure Prado could move to midd pack or whatever starting last 😄. Remember last summer on KTM? Took an extended vacation. Webb? Riders coming back...

I'm sure Prado could move to midd pack or whatever starting last 😄. Remember last summer on KTM? Took an extended vacation. Webb? Riders coming back to SMX only, outdoors only. It's not a coincidence they happen to be healed just as a new season starts, is it?

Now its excuses for Jetts injury, you doing anything to find a position that is the opposite? 

Again, being on the job doing something always is considered better than staying at home. And pretty much every rider in the top has stayed at home when they could have come back. If only for a race. Why? Because it's not worth it.

TAUTOG wrote:

Money wrote:

Mathes says Jamie from twisted has been brought in to help out. How long till Kawasaki Japan steps in and cleans house at factory kawi USA.