Panic Button for Chase/Kawi?

BossWool2800
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Jackson , TX US
5 hours ago Edited Date/Time 5 hours ago
I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James...

I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James Stewart made it work, Ryan Villopoto made it work, Chad Reed made it work, Garrett Marchbanks is making it work. Phil Nicoletti made it work. So when did it get so dangerous - the ‘24 model? 

Fwiw, Prado had never ridden another bike other than a KTM (even in his jr days), when he rode the KX.

I mean, heck, Rick Johnson won the 1984 motocross series on a basically production YZ250, against works Hondas. “But that’s different…” 🙄

“But that’s different…”

Yeah, man. About 40 years difference. Sport's changed a little since then. 

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

1
1
4 hours ago
aees wrote:

When Prado has 6 seasons of SX behind him.

Prado has ridden less SX than the 16y old SMX future kids. 

How many seasons do the SMX future kids have racing supercross?

aees wrote:

The same.

Still ridden SX less since they have been on SX tracks for years. And of course, not all of them.

At what age do you think they start riding legit supercross tracks?

1
Spoonguy
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4 hours ago
Matt414 wrote:
I think that his best option. He’s not going back to Honda. Triumph likely doesn’t have close to the money, same with Ducati or Beta. Suzuki...

I think that his best option. He’s not going back to Honda. Triumph likely doesn’t have close to the money, same with Ducati or Beta. Suzuki likely a no go long s Ken is there. Yamaha maybe, but I think highly unlikely. And if he does end up at Yamaha, willing to bet it’s similar to Prado deal, low/no salary and bonuses. Would still get gear money I am sure. But at this point in his career I am willing to bet he knows another championship is highly unlikely to happen. Smart money would be to learn how to shut up n ride the bike, finish 4-10 with the occasional podium or stars align and win. Cash that big check and sleep on a pile of money at night. 

I'm pretty sure money isn't an issue for Ducati.........

Matt414 wrote:
Do you have access to their financials? What are you basing your statement on? Is Ducati US the same parent company as the Italian based?  Or...

Do you have access to their financials? What are you basing your statement on? Is Ducati US the same parent company as the Italian based?  Or are they separate like many of the Japanese are?  What is their budget for the US based program?  Or are you just guessing at this since you assume since Ducati appears to have money since they cater to high end customers?  Would you think Ford or Ferrari has more free cash to spend?  

Ducati is owned by Audi, they seem to have plenty of money to road race successfully as well. They HATE to lose. It is a pretty safe assumption, perhaps not accurate, but safe.

The Shop

4 hours ago
Matt414 wrote:
Do you have access to their financials? What are you basing your statement on? Is Ducati US the same parent company as the Italian based?  Or...

Do you have access to their financials? What are you basing your statement on? Is Ducati US the same parent company as the Italian based?  Or are they separate like many of the Japanese are?  What is their budget for the US based program?  Or are you just guessing at this since you assume since Ducati appears to have money since they cater to high end customers?  Would you think Ford or Ferrari has more free cash to spend?  

I don't have access to their financials, but unlike you, I know the history of the company. The Castiglioni brothers used to own Ducati, and the...

I don't have access to their financials, but unlike you, I know the history of the company. The Castiglioni brothers used to own Ducati, and the company did very well. The company is now owned by the Audi Group, which is owned by Volkswagen. They have plenty of money. Whether they're spending it is a different question. 

Didn’t the Castilioni Bros own Cagiva?

They did. They also got involved with Ducati as I recall. I don't know if they owned them outright or if they just invested in the company though

3 hours ago
I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James...

I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James Stewart made it work, Ryan Villopoto made it work, Chad Reed made it work, Garrett Marchbanks is making it work. Phil Nicoletti made it work. So when did it get so dangerous - the ‘24 model? 

Fwiw, Prado had never ridden another bike other than a KTM (even in his jr days), when he rode the KX.

I mean, heck, Rick Johnson won the 1984 motocross series on a basically production YZ250, against works Hondas. “But that’s different…” 🙄

“But that’s different…”

Yeah, man. About 40 years difference. Sport's changed a little since then. 

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for...

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

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BossWool2800
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3 hours ago Edited Date/Time 3 hours ago

“But that’s different…”

Yeah, man. About 40 years difference. Sport's changed a little since then. 

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for...

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is...

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

6
Johnny Ringo
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3 hours ago
So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for...

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is...

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what to think

4
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aees
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3 hours ago

How many seasons do the SMX future kids have racing supercross?

aees wrote:

The same.

Still ridden SX less since they have been on SX tracks for years. And of course, not all of them.

At what age do you think they start riding legit supercross tracks?

As soon as they move to 250 they start at latest, so between 14-16. You think they all ride SX first time they get pro license? 😄

Most have access to someone with private SX tracks. 

BossWool2800
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3 hours ago Edited Date/Time 3 hours ago
My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is...

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what...

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what to think

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s the ‘24 chassis, and word is that Febvre was on the production chassis when he won. So what everyone is trying to say is that Chase can’t win or even race, because the bike and management are just too much and are holding him back too much. I’m just not buying it. 

1
aees
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3 hours ago
Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what...

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what to think

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s...

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s the ‘24 chassis, and word is that Febvre was on the production chassis when he won. So what everyone is trying to say is that Chase can’t win or even race, because the bike and management are just too much and are holding him back too much. I’m just not buying it. 

It's not just Chase. It's Chase, Prado, Seewer, Paul's Jonass. Elite riders all capable of doing way better. 

Seewer said the bike turns like a oil tanker. Chase has said he has to ride outside lines because can't get to the inside, and around the bumps due to chassi/suspension.

That chassi seems to work for people with a specific riding style like Febvre and Anderson. AC and Anderson has told they where also struggling with chassi before they left kawi.

You have to be a pretty big kawi-fan at this point to not see there is something wrong with team and bike.

3
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BossWool2800
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2 hours ago Edited Date/Time 2 hours ago
I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what...

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what to think

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s...

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s the ‘24 chassis, and word is that Febvre was on the production chassis when he won. So what everyone is trying to say is that Chase can’t win or even race, because the bike and management are just too much and are holding him back too much. I’m just not buying it. 

aees wrote:
It's not just Chase. It's Chase, Prado, Seewer, Paul's Jonass. Elite riders all capable of doing way better. Seewer said the bike turns like a oil tanker...

It's not just Chase. It's Chase, Prado, Seewer, Paul's Jonass. Elite riders all capable of doing way better. 

Seewer said the bike turns like a oil tanker. Chase has said he has to ride outside lines because can't get to the inside, and around the bumps due to chassi/suspension.

That chassi seems to work for people with a specific riding style like Febvre and Anderson. AC and Anderson has told they where also struggling with chassi before they left kawi.

You have to be a pretty big kawi-fan at this point to not see there is something wrong with team and bike.

Oh my gosh, the panic. The bike is un-rideable, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? Lol

8
prozach
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1 hour ago
I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James...

I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James Stewart made it work, Ryan Villopoto made it work, Chad Reed made it work, Garrett Marchbanks is making it work. Phil Nicoletti made it work. So when did it get so dangerous - the ‘24 model? 

Fwiw, Prado had never ridden another bike other than a KTM (even in his jr days), when he rode the KX.

I mean, heck, Rick Johnson won the 1984 motocross series on a basically production YZ250, against works Hondas. “But that’s different…” 🙄

Motofinne wrote:
Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't...

Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't gone well for him either except a couple of bright spots.

 

Tomac won 4 of his titles on one and the majority or his race wins came on one.  🤷‍♀️

3
Motofinne
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1 hour ago Edited Date/Time 1 hour ago
I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James...

I just don’t see how all of a sudden the KX450 is so bad and “dangerous” that it’s a death trap or cursed or something. James Stewart made it work, Ryan Villopoto made it work, Chad Reed made it work, Garrett Marchbanks is making it work. Phil Nicoletti made it work. So when did it get so dangerous - the ‘24 model? 

Fwiw, Prado had never ridden another bike other than a KTM (even in his jr days), when he rode the KX.

I mean, heck, Rick Johnson won the 1984 motocross series on a basically production YZ250, against works Hondas. “But that’s different…” 🙄

Motofinne wrote:
Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't...

Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't gone well for him either except a couple of bright spots.

 

prozach wrote:

Tomac won 4 of his titles on one and the majority or his race wins came on one.  🤷‍♀️

And left because the team wasn't willing to go the distance for them regarding bike development.
Now it seems like they are finally doing something, but hard work doesn't automatically result in great results if you're lost and not competent enough to turn around the project.

3
30minmotos
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1 hour ago
Motofinne wrote:
Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't...

Are you really bringing in what JS7 did on a carbureted KX450 to this discussion? 😅 And is Garrett Marchbanks actually making it work? It hasn't gone well for him either except a couple of bright spots.

 

prozach wrote:

Tomac won 4 of his titles on one and the majority or his race wins came on one.  🤷‍♀️

Motofinne wrote:
And left because the team wasn't willing to go the distance for them regarding bike development.Now it seems like they are finally doing something, but hard...

And left because the team wasn't willing to go the distance for them regarding bike development.
Now it seems like they are finally doing something, but hard work doesn't automatically result in great results if you're lost and not competent enough to turn around the project.

And he was instantly significantly better on the Yamaha.

2
KurtJ99
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1 hour ago
Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what...

I was in the same camp as you until Sexton got on it and started looking like Ezra Lusk in 03. Now I don’t know what to think

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s...

We could go all day on the Kawasaki chassis from 03 on, but James Stuart still won on that 250. No one can say if it’s the ‘24 chassis, and word is that Febvre was on the production chassis when he won. So what everyone is trying to say is that Chase can’t win or even race, because the bike and management are just too much and are holding him back too much. I’m just not buying it. 

word is that Febvre was on the production chassis when he won

That was MX, not SX. Febvre has won races on bent bars, he's a different rider. We'll find out how the MX comparison holds in a month or so. 

So what everyone is trying to say is that Chase can’t win or even race

He has won and is racing. What most are saying is that he is not a consistent podium finisher now but was expected to be in the championship hunt this year and is miles away from where he was on Honda or KTM, for which he won championships. If you accept that Chase has been successful on the other brands, you have to question why he isn't now. TLDR - it's the team/bike. 

truck
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Fantasy
1 hour ago
So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for...

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is...

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

Jett struggled with setup on new bike too.... they got it figured out and he was fine. No reason to think he's incapable of prolonged struggles if they can't get it figured out or the platform is garbage though. Has coenen ever ridden SX? 

truck
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Louisville, KY US
Fantasy
1 hour ago
So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for...

So RJ didn’t win in spite of the bike and mgmt? RV and JS didn’t win despite of the bike and mgmt? So it’s impossible for Chase, Marchbanks, Febvre, or anyone to win or compete on it? Yeah, okay.
 

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is...

My guy, you've got all the pieces but you aren't putting it together. RJ, RV, RC, JS7... they aren't relevant to this conversation. This conversation is about the current Kawasaki. Bringing up Febvre is a good point, though! How can he win a world championship in the same year that Prado had a year long melt down? Same year, same bike. This year, Febvre isn't as good as last season, but he's not going full Chase Sexton. Maybe there's something going on with Kawasaki in America? Maybe the US operation isn't as well put together as the FIM side. Or maybe it's the bike! The production rules are different between MXGP and AMA, so maybe they can make parts for Febvre's bike that they can't in the US.

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact...

Look point is you could put Jett or Lucas Coenen on that bike and they would win just as much. I’m just not buying the fact that there’s some big dark mystery that’s preventing Chase or anybody else that jumps on a KX 450 from winning. 

Jett struggled with setup on new bike too.... they got it figured out and he was fine. No reason to think he's incapable of prolonged struggles if they can't get it figured out or the platform is garbage though. Has coenen ever ridden SX? 

1 minute ago

Did Steve say that JT had reported that Chase was already not speaking to certain people at Kawasaki? 

I did hear it & that was weeks ago. But it didn’t get discussed further. 

Is it true?

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