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OK- what available rider , with your hypothetical skill-set, that would want that job, would you pick? Trey Canard is a rare breed: Former race winning speed, still in good enough physical shape, with no past injuries that keep him from performing his day-to-day-to-day testing duties, easy to work with...Most (all) of these top level guys retire for a reason...
and how can Johnny O'Mara help Jet or Hunta ride, his riding style is nothing like them...
Villopoto is working with the marketing department not the racing department. Just sayin'...
So since Webb is #1 RV can run #2 this weekend right? Or does he run 207 or 615?
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So, because I was off on the number of SX podiums he has, I guess his multiple 450 outdoor podiums don't count, and he sucks and isn't qualified to test. Good to know...
So then the engineers should be the ones making changes, giving advice, etc. by that logic. Broc isn't an engineer or a race winner. So what's the point at all then? if anything, you further drive my point here, not that I fully agree or disagree.
If you're gonna make an argument, at least get your facts straight. It's not my fault you were incorrect. Also, I never said he sucks, so you're 0/2. Not your best day, Sully.
Nobody is qualified to test for Chase other than Chase. It is the teams job to decipher the riders comments and come up with a setting/solution to the issue. No two riders have the same feel or bike setting preference so team test riders are a complete waste of time. Broc may test 5 parts and pick 2 and 3 as the better performing parts but part 4 may have been the direction Chase was looking for but It got bypassed?
Fuck thats a good one..
I feel like the purpose of Broc (or any good test rider) is to be detail-oriented and give feedback on whatever is needed. There are plenty of elite-speed guys that aren't good at picking up on the changes or at least being able to put it into words or make sense of it. In the end, some of it is on Chase because only he rides exactly how he does. But a good test rider can still help in a variety of ways. I think sometimes the star rider can get inside his own head or start really chasing a set up. And having a true test-rider there can maybe help keep things on track. Just my opinion. I don't think a test rider can solve everything 100%, but just a useful tool, almost like a middle-man between the team and the factory rider.
I am completely unqualified to make an assessment. My question was just inquisitive. I tend to agree that Tickle seems to match pretty well with Sexton. More generally, it will be interesting to see if any riders ever negotiate a particular test rider in their contract. Perhaps that has already been done?
The test rider is part of the development team. Think of a test rider like a human Dyno. A machine that evaluates equipment.
The dyno operator likely isn't an engineer or a race winner but still critical. A track builder isn't an engineer or a race winner but still critical in the process.
Here's how a test rider can work... A racer says to the engineer, this is what i'm feeling, the test rider can evaluate those feeling and report their evaluations to the engineers then go back and forth with the test rider to rectify the feeling on track. Then take the options back to the racer... a test rider is critcal in that process... They are part of the engineering team
Test riders are not all former champs. They're often former pros who often hovered anywhere from top 10-20, maybe even further down the results page. However, the key term here is "pro," meaning they're extremely competent on a dirt bike (aka faster than 99% of riders could ever hope to be). But they are usually recruited for two main reasons: 1) They have industry connections; 2) [and much more important] They are excellent at communicating with the R&D department about what is happening on the motorcycle.
To have a former factory rider in his own right like Broc, who is also a former 250 champ, is a privilege for any current racer who is lucky enough to benefit from his expertise. Currently the entire Kawasaki factory effort is lucky to have Tickle on their side.
Other Kawasaki former or current test riders: Sean Borkenhagen (current...?), Ryan Beat (yes the truck racer and bro of Kristen Beat pit reporter), Tyler Bowers...
Honda: Trey Canard, MC
Suzuki: ?
Yamaha: Steve Tokarski, ?
Husky: Hanny, ?
KTM: MooseCan, ?
This thread has completely derailed from the original question. My gut says we hear an announcement from Kawi on Thursday that he is lining up this weekend. If not I don’t think we see him until Pala.
As a runner I can tell you it’s not that simple. You’re forgetting the human element and how we as systems respond to external factors. It’s more than just bike feel bad plz adjust.
I think the solution is extensive communication and a plethora of perspectives. Data is worthless without the ability to interpret and apply 🤷🏼♂️
I think he lines up when 100% healthy. I don’t see him skipping this time, when he’s thinking title next year. He will want race laps…
Keefer thinks putting shims between the triple clamp bolt and the clamp surface makes a difference in feel and performance. I would absolutely say that in some cases he doesn't know what he is talking about.
Keefer knows what he’s talking about and could explain it to a 5 years old so…gotta disagree with ya there.
Some people are amazing testers and articulate the changes in a way the team can understand which is an invaluable skill. The guys building the suspension and components likely haven’t won races either. That doesn’t mean they aren’t the best person for the job.
There’s a reason coaches and trainers at the highest level of every sport aren’t often (see hardly ever) past champions of their respective sport.
Pit Row
Yeah true. And that’s exactly what’s Brocs roll is here. He’s part of the bike development team.
nike is Kawasaki in this analogy. Obviously
Well said. Keefer has a skill of explaining what a bike does and feeling little details. A counter example is sort of like when Barry Bonds tried to be a hitting coach. He can hit the ball as well as anyone that has walked the earth, but he can't tell you why or coach you to do it, which is why that path immediately failed, for him. That is largely because he just has insane amount of talent and he just does it. I think that example can carry over into many things. I'm not convinced that Chase really knows what he wants a bike to do, in real terms. JT's comments a couple weeks ago really gave a look into that. So any good test rider on staff at Kawi is going to still be very valuable at helping him, even if they aren't able to push a bike like he can.
If he does come back this week, hopefully some progress is made. But I do think he also just needs to be in the proper headspace too. Hoping that everything comes together for Outdoors, at least.
The test rider’s job isn’t to develop a race winning bike that Chase can just hop onto. Not only is that unrealistic but he services a much wider range of needs than just testing for one rider.
You did heavily imply that someone with Tickle’s credentials isn’t suitable to be a factory test rider for Chase. You then mentioned Trey Canard at Honda - do you think he’s good enough to be a test rider for Jett?
This reminds me of the (2009?) CRF450R that McGrath absolutely loved due to it's amazing cornering ability, yet a lot of national pros hated it, said it had a stinkbug feel, wasn't balanced, etc. It took them a while to get it set up correctly for other riders. It's a very individual thing based on style, speed, body type, etc. Hope Chase and his crew figure it out soon so he can ride like we all know he can.
what the hell, I look at this thread to see if anyone knows if hes racing or not and its just the same old shit? Isn't there other threads that discuss this crap? No moderators here?
Since this thread is about test riders now, I’ll throw in my hot opinion. I think Kawi picked up Chiz as their test guy on the East coast solely to take the resource away from Suzuki. They knew he would basically help Suzuki for free so they could throw a little money at him and in turn take him away from helping the opposition.
Interesting take - I like it! Conspiracy Theorists Unite!
Not sure if I heard it on Pulp or what but there was some bad feelings between him and Suzuki when he left so it sounds like your theory is probably correct.
Oh really? You've been to the test track to confirm?
Chase's dad needs to take a seat in the grand stands to start with.
Kawasaki cant afford to pay a guy as rich as RV to grind out testing all day at the track, that is literally the last thing he wants to do.
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