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Not everything applicable to a race is in the rule book.
If they state before season or during riders meeting they will place reinforcement systems at 1-2 places on the track and declare those yellow flag then that is fine.
Will be interesting to see the PR. They can't change it without telling anyone of course 😄
Exactly as I suspected, from AMA:
250 Class Race Direction Review
During the race, a warning light, also referred to as the single red lead in light, was displayed in accordance with standard race procedures. When the warning light is shown, riders are alerted of a future obstacle being shut down. However, the presence of the warning light alone does not prohibit riders from executing jumps unless accompanied by additional flag signals or directives indicating otherwise.
After a thorough review by Race Direction, it has been confirmed that all 250 riders remained in compliance with the rules. Since the warning light was displayed and no supplementary signals were issued to restrict jumping, riders were permitted to maintain race pace and execute jumps through the section.
As a result, no penalties have been assessed to any riders in the 250 class regarding this situation.
450 Class Race Direction Review
A separate situation occurred during the 450 Main Event involving a red cross flag being displayed at the finish line stand. At the time of the incident, no corresponding red lights or red cross flags were illuminated in the section leading into the jump.
Following a comprehensive review, Race Direction determined there was no blatant violation of the red cross rule. (1.6.14, e.,6) Riders were already committed to the jump without a visible warning light to reasonably signal the restricted condition prior to takeoff.
Given the absence of illuminated red lights and the lack of advanced visual indication before rider commitment, officials concluded that the circumstances did not warrant penalties.
As a result, no penalties have been assessed to any riders in the 450 class regarding this situation.
You called it brother.
2026 rules are not being observed, honestly this is the biggest bunch of crap Ive ever seen.....
Ignore the red light and ignore the cross flag and let the ama sort it out later.......WTF is this bunch of crap, incompetent bunch of fools....
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Pretty wild. Warning light and no red cross flag = okay to jump. Red cross flag and no warning light = also okay to jump.
As far as this "lead in light" idea goes, the AMA is just making shit up at this point. First of all, 1.6.14 e. states White Flag with Red Cross OR Red Flashing Lights. Notice the word "or" in this rule. The rule does not say that you need both. They seem to be interpreting it as if the rule says "and" instead of "or". The rulebook at it's plainly written states that either the flag or the lights are individually sufficient to perform the same function. Nowhere does the rule say anything about a "lead in light".
Now the part where it gets dicey is when you get down to 3. and it says "Until the rider is clear of the incident". It would be better if the rule said "Until the rider is clear of the section where the light or flag is displayed". The problem with the current wording is that if there is no incident, then they're never not clear of it. So yeah, Pierce Brown was clear of the incident because when he jumped, there was no incident. But this kind of approach to these rules is lunacy. It invites the riders to try to make a judgement call about whether or not to jump when they see a red light or Red Cross flag based on whether or not they see an incident. But the whole point is to warn them of an incident that they may not be able to see. So, the light or Red Cross flag should mean rolling the section of obstacles immediately following the flag or light every time, no exceptions. Anything less renders the cautions pretty much pointless.
Treating the light as a "lead in" and letting riders off if they jump when only one or the other and not both is displayed also invites riders to try to gain an advantage by jumping if they only see one. Red Cross flag but no "lead in" light? No problem - I'm going to jump and if they want to penalize me I can say I didn't have sufficient waring without a lead in light. Red light but no flag? No problem, I can jump because this is only warning me that there might be a flag. This is putting riders in a position where they have reason to second guess the displayed caution. After all, if they roll the section their competition might jump and gets away with it. This sort of reasoning shouldn't have any reason to enter a rider's mind.
How about this: Whenever the Red Cross flag or red light is being displayed you roll the section or you get penalized. If it works well to have a light and a flag in some sections, so be it. But make it clear that either serves the purpose on its own, and it's in force as long as it's displayed, regardless of whether or not there is still an ongoing incident so that you don't have someone looking around and not seeing anything and then disregarding the flag or light and landing on someone they didn't see.
Had anyone heard of a "lead in light" before the AMA used it to justify this decision? If so, has it been clearly communicated to all the riders and teams? These rules need to be clear, simple, unambiguous, accessible, and consistently enforced. Unless they don't give a shit about fairness or rider safety.
Right, why not just use the yellow flag instead of only flashing lights? I guess they want to keep riders confused
“However, the presence of the warning light alone does not prohibit riders from executing jumps unless accompanied by additional flag signals or directives indicating otherwise.”
So why is it stated that the flag or the light indicates a hazardous situation? But apparently the red light was an orange light, but the orange light appears red? This honestly makes sense to you? lmfao
Herein lies the biggest issue...
AMA race Direction isn't going to admit they fucked up. Their rulebook contradicts their findings.
This statement right here gives them an out, directly from the rulebook-
6. Penalties are defined in Section 3.1 Violations and Disciplinary Action. If Race Direction determines that the violation was not blatant or takes place during a sighting or cool down lap, a warning or fine may be issued.
This wouldn't be an issue if they were consistent. They just aren't. I write and review documents similar to this for a living and if I was ambiguous as this is, I wouldn't have a job.
AMA: No penalties in either class because of what the rulebook states about the red lead in lights.
Everyone: Ok cool, show us where in the rule book it states that.
AMA: Trust us.
I give him credit, he was your Huckleberry!
As we esquire things since the AMA is again failing to enforce their own rules, it’s also worth noting that the rulebook specifically references red flashing lights “at the beginning of a triple jump or a series of jumps.” You can’t call the red lights next to the small double the “lead-in lights” and in the same breath say that the small “lead-in” double is not related to the finish line jump. It’s a series of jumps. With a flashing red light. You can’t jump the series.
Yep. I'm confused.
Could anyone tell if the lights are flashing or if they are just on and solid? I couldn't discern on TV. Not sure if there is a difference there.
The AMA’s entire explanation depends on the idea that riders were told in the riders' meeting that a single red light is only a “warning.” That’s the only way their decision makes sense, because the rulebook says a red flashing light >>or<< a red cross flag triggers the no‑jump protocol.
Given the past fiascos regarding red lights and red cross flags, you'd think it'd be worth their time to update the rulebook to reflect the actual rules that will be enforced.
With sports betting now in moto. Can someone take this to court? Just curious is all.
Pit Row
welp, Vital has done its thing and regurgitated the AMA's PR piece which entirely exonerates them of any fault or wrong doing (as always). Think ML or Lew will follow up with, I don't know, some actual questions? Or nah?
Ah, I see what the problem is. We've been subscribed to the "rider safety max package" where we have to have a certain combo of lights and flags in sequence in order to trigger the rulebook mattering, when we really should have been subscribed to the "rider safety ULTRA package" with the platinum add-on to get a single light or flag to trigger "the rulebook matters now" deluxe clause, which is also a separate subscription fee.
I like how you always call out ML on stuff like this, don’t tag him @ML512 for some reason, then he always comes in here and sets the record straight and proves you wrong.
Give it a rest.
Why does a lot of what the AMA does seem to not follow logic or reason? Apparently... A friggin red light means it OK to jump, but be aware of the possibility of downd riders or problems??? Isn't this what a yellow CAUTION light should do? What the actual fuck.
Pretty wild that the "lead in light" thing came about because Honda bitched about Jett Lawrence missing the red cross flag, and then the correction bit Jo and Hunter in the ass.
Go watch ML and Lew's post-race pod, then STFU
Okay. Calling BULLSHIT.
“During the race, a warning light, also referred to as the single red lead in light, was displayed in accordance with standard race procedures”
Show me the words “red lead in light” in the rulebook. Anyone? AMA? Then to say “in accordance with standard race procedures” like…you know…like it has ALWAYS been. Fuck off. Never have we seen this procedure. I will bet Mike P. $1000 that if we argue this in front of a judge that I will win…..easily. All this supposed we said in rider meetings. Nobody knew this. As was pointed out, Brown didn’t know…he just claimed the light wasn’t on. How boss level would he have been if he said…yea, I knew…lead in light but no flag. He didn’t because no rider understood it like that. You have a rule book. Fucking follow it….not just when it backs your decision. If you want to change something? Open the word file and put in a paragraph called lead in lights. Then press release and all the teams and fans know. Not hard.
Fuck my head hurts just reading those rules, the AMA expects these guys to process a decision in 1/00th of a second when they're in full tilt boogie race mode. Come on they aint sitting at a desk lol. If all the red light does is "alert them to be alert" lol. Isn't that the same as a yellow flag ? Why throw something extra in there ? Yellow - use caution potential hazard, white with red cross - don't jump. Sure there's going to be timing problems but that's with any system, there's always going to be the guy that sees it right as he committed, you can't eliminate that scenario with any system. They expect a lot out of these riders, they should pay them more. To me simple is better and they all know what the flags mean. Just use the flags ? 🤷♂️
Edit- To me, RED means stop, always has. Red flag, red light whatever, IMO red should only mean one thing, Stop.
The class of things pertinent here ARE in the rulebook. One document rule. You can't have ancillary material that literally conflicts with the rules in the rulebook and then claim the rulebook governs.
We do have this thing called the Internet where documents can be hosted and revised on the fly; and notifications sent out to interested parties. It's crazy, I know.
So what I’m getting from this is those lights are just to warn riders about a possible upcoming issue, and just because the red lights are on doesn’t mean you can’t jump it.
Of course if there’s a Red Cross flag on the jump which is usually in conjunction with the red lights then you can’t jump.
The lights were added because the riders complained they couldn’t see the Red Cross flag or didn’t have enough time to adjust for it without a pre warning which is essentially what those lights are.
Their explanation doesn't make any sense.
They have it one way for the 250 situation, and the other way for the 450.
It *could* make sense for them to not penalise the 250 riders for jumping with just the lights on, but it doesn't make any sense to not penalise the 450 riders for jumping with a red cross flag.
The response from the AMA here is contradictory, but most importantly does not follow their rulebook.
Shitshow.
Post a reply to: No Flag or Red Cross Violations at Texas: Kellen Brauer