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Same answers I give..
I’ve been racing mammoth for 13 years straight and that race is far and away the most well run and, importantly here, flagged race I’ve ever been to. I’m disgusted by the actions of the Zingg family, absolutely tragic loss for them but you simply cannot hold, 2x, mammoth and fox responsible for any part of this.
I just rewatched and uploaded the first couple laps of this years race, on my second lap from start to finish I counted 40 flaggers or medics on the track, they are literally every 10-20 yards. If you, the courts, a jury, or the Zingg family think that this event and this race “lacked” in their flagging, medics and safety, ultimately causing the death of Aiden, then good luck to every other promoter and track across our country.
Damn, that track looks fun as hell!
And, for what it's worth, I didn't see any of those flaggers sitting down or staring at their phones.
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Maybe a new rule in amateur racing that if someone is out cold on the track the other competitors SHALL stop and protect the downed rider until help arrives? It's the right thing to do.
We've all seen amateur riders think they're paid professionals and use downed riders as speed bumps like on TV.
I was used as a speed bump in an organized practice. Good thing I had knee braces on, cracked my Asterisk carbon brace but glad I walked away. My face was in the sand so I never did get to follow up with the kid that did it.
It's hard to tell for sure, and I tried not to double-count the same staffers as you came back to the front section, but I got about 35 track personnel in yellow or orange vests.
At least 15 before you get to the corner in question. Not sure you'll find a better staffed track anywhere in the world.
For the record that is 98%-99% the same track I raced for the first time in 1986 on minibikes
Solved is the wrong word. You are correct, you can't ever fully eliminate the danger in any form of motorcycle racing especially one like motocross.
However, you can minimise risks in a lot of ways. Nowhere over here ever, under any circumstances mixes 125/250/450 bikes with kids. Auto's, 65's, 85's and then youth classes 16-21 are all separate groups to adults. Marshalls have to have clear line of sight to all parts of the track for which they are responsible so any blind spots require a new marshall post to be placed. There's a lot of room for improvement in mx all over the world, we've kinda flown under the radar a bit historically speaking while other motorsports have had to deal with regulation so frankly, if the sport doesn't take this on and do what it can for itself then yeah, someone is going to come in from outside and do it for us and that's likely to be much worse for everyone.
The track looks very wide open and safe. I have to say. If you didn’t finally pass that #639, I was going give you mass shit. Your vid made me want to go race Mammoth now!! Thanks for posting.
Does anybody on here truely know what happened? Seems like a bunch of speculation to me.
lol that was Jamie Ellis, owner of Twisted, I was just being respectful of a very nice man in the industry! It’s the funniest race ever! And as I said, you can’t find a better run event! They have a team of 10 guys sweeping the gate for everyone each moto, tons of medics and flaggers, I’ve unfortunately needed them and had two flaggers and a medic on me before I could stand up! That’s why I’m so upset over this, because you literally can’t find a better staffed race.
my opinion is the track/promoter is at fault if for example a piece of equipment, tractor, rzr ect is on the track during a race, or they altered the track without notifying the riders, those kind of things. Then yes, their fault. If you fall and get hit once or several times causing death, its a racing indecent. It happens, we all know it. As a parent, putting your minor in these situations is arguably your fault. Knowing this sport can cripple or kill and still allowing your child to do it? hmm
Right on! We’ve got to watch out for our fellow fragile vet mxers. What class are you guys in?
When does it get to the point that the other Riders start suing if a rider goes down and leaves a motorcycle on track much less their body shouldn't the Zinggs be responsible for that it create a dangerous situation for the other Riders and what about the person that ran over Aiden I'm sure they're suffering severe mental anguish could they sue for that too this is getting crazy!
No parents should ever have to bury their child I definitely feel for the family but this just isn't right!
Agreed!! I get the grief and all that( my little brother died at 21 years old) it sucks bad!! This year was his 21st anniversary of being dead at 21 years old. My parents and the rest of us will never be the same, so I understand the grief involved.
It’s not like the Zinggs didn’t know the risk involved, being the parents of a pro amateur team green rider and all. It sounds to me like they caught a case of the ambulance chaser lawyer influenza during their anger stage of grief. Realizing that they can at least collect a few mill as a result. What a way to make lemonade out of lemons. Funny how that always happens (They supported and encouraged their kid to risk his life for fun and a possible career and now umpteen million in their pocket is going to “Change the sport” for the better. Yeah, right…
Imagine knowingly subjecting your own kid to one of the most dangerous sports available for their entire childhood then turning around and suing someone for “negligence” when the unthinkable finally happens. If we’re gonna go the “negligence” route then the parents should be liable for child endangerment period! Maybe the Mammoth promoters should turn them in CPS? Short of a dozer or a piece of equipment on the track during a moto they are sadly just using the system to extort money out of mammoth and their insurance which they’ll surely lose then possibly be un insureable as a result. What change for the better! For those that think, oh well they’ll figure it out during discovery. Unfortunately, figuring stuff out during discovery and depositions costs well into the $six figures $ that someone has to pay with real money.
If they want to change the sport for the better drop the suit and create the Aiden Zingg memorial rider safety program. People would throw money at it because it would actually change the sport for the better. Much better than a scumbag attorney greed driven lawsuit,
you explained it better than me! thank you
I couldn't have put it better. I am against the lawsuits on these tracks becuase eventually we wont have any, on the other hand just like you I very recently (less than a month ago) had an INCREDIBLY dangerous sitation happen at a public track open ride.
Rider was down on the backside of a blind double (nothing big maybe 40 footer), no flaggers on the track. His bike was in the middle of the track and he was laying to the right. I avoided landing directly on his bike by maybe 2 inches, another guy jumped straight into his bike then he was down. I circled back around (at which point I fell down trying to stop the other riders coming). This really pissed me off. The guy was clearly unable to get up right away, no flaggers and putting everyone at risk. If you are a public track having people pay $ and sign a release to ride you should at least have fucking flaggers on the jumps.
Any track running a AMA sanctioned event whether it be a Pro or Amateur race should have trained/certified flaggers and they should have radio communication devices. The caution lights are a big plus, PAX Trax has them and they help tremendously. If flaggers are not seasoned or have the proper knowledge to do the job correctly, then the track owner and promotor are putting themselves at risk.
When I rider is down and not moving the race should be red flagged immediately, that is something a track owner can put in place to protect all participants, the flagger and medical staff.
Maybe no riders under 18, riders over 18 have to show proof of there own ,medical insurance, including public liability.
Is this what it's coming to?
Pit Row
If it is the corner furthest from the track, near the timestamp you suggest, it is sort of a blind landing after coming off a jump into a turn. Not a good place to crash. The gopro doesn't give adequate perspective IMO. Your are sweeping to the right to go over a rolling jump and setting up for a left hand turn. If you were down after the rolling jump before the left hand turn (furthest from the start, don't know for sure if "turn 9"), you would need multiple flaggers IMO. 1 flagger to slow the riders down in the sweeper before the turn, another to keep the racers out of the downed riders position. Not a unique situation to Mammoth, probably typical when coming off of high speed sweepers.
With all of this concern about how many flaggers are at a public track and safety of the riders, how does Glen Helen get away with no flaggers on practice days ? Not to mention the 5 year olds on peewees and National pros on the track at the same time…. There have been several deaths at this track and they have refused the help of the Brett Downey Foundation to help with the safety. How do they get passed the lawsuits ? If there was ONE track that needed more safety improvements , it’s Glen Helen…. Makes me wonder who they are insured with and his much they pay.
Yeah it’s pretty wild to see top pros out there with people on klx 125s who just started riding the same day…
It’s always been this way too. There’s a list of lives lost at this track, it’s amazing it’s still open with all the ambulance chasers in California !!
Either way, it IS dangerous and they really need to figure it out, before it’s gonzo !
Maybe Dr Bud somehow pays them off?
That's the way it heading now.
Yup exactly. The very next time I went riding was at another popular SoCal track and I noticed there were literally 0 flaggers on the main track and zero flaggers on the vet track. This was the same day I saw a water truck crossing the track with oncoming traffic.
The main track has massive jumps and plenty of dangerous blind spots and the vet track was packed with riders. Something could have very easily gone very wrong that day.
This actually ended up being the last time I went riding about 5 months ago, when I was riding 1-2x per month. I even listed my bike for sale but chickened out and unlisted it. Things are just getting borderline reckless.
Unless they are planning to donate the proceeds of this lawsuit to the Brett Downey Safety Foundation or something similar, this is simply trying to profit off the death of your child. Nothing more and nothing less. What makes this even more sickening is the fact that the last two high profile cases of profiting from your child’s crash involved lifelong racers and 2nd generation industry guys who have made a living in the motorcycle industry. https://swapmotolive.com/amsoil-swapmoto-race-series-rider-profile-bob-zingg/race-series/racer-profiles/
We all know the risks every time we put on our helmets or enter our children in a race. The Zinggs and Taylors should know this better than nearly anyone.
No matter how great the flaggers are, the fact is that if you fall in the front of 40 amateur riders with varying levels of skill, there is a good chance you might get run over. I got a helicopter ride from exactly this scenario 10 years ago. Was it expensive? Yes, even after insurance. Was it safe to have a whooped out set of rollers immediately following the first turn? Probably not, but no one forced me to race. As a matter of fact, I still race this same track ten years later and accept this risk every time the gate drops. I hope the Zinggs feel great if their lawsuit ends one of the greatest annual race events in the country.
I have a genuine question, so please, don’t jump on me. At what point does a track bear any responsibility? Lack of flaggers? Unsafe jumps/conditions? Trees close to track? Heavy equipment on or near? What are some crazy things you’ve seen that could be avoided? Where, if anywhere, does a line get drawn? Again, a genuine question. Curious of the answers.
Great question! I don't think there's an objective answer.
My feelings are that in general the track is responsible for maintaining a constant state. That way riders are able to evaluate their own level of risk and act accordingly.
If the track starts introducing new risks during an event and without notifying the riders, then riders would not be able to evaluate their own level of risk.
When I was racing seriously in my 20s, I specifically told my family, that if I got seriously injured or died racing, that I don't want them to pursue legal action of any sort.
I knew the risks, and chose to race. But when I was a teenager, I didn't even think about it.
Every racing family should discuss the possibility serious injury and death, and organ donation, it's an uncomfortable subject, but it's also part of life.
I hope the family get the closure they need.
RIDE IN PEACE!
No flagger = no warning = riders riding blind = track failure.
Big double = rider chooses to jump it and crashes = rider failure
Big double = rider chooses to jump it and crashes = rider and bike is sprawled out on track = no flagger to warn others = other riders land on downed rider = race continues for 2 more laps while rider and bike sprawled out on track = track failure
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