Zingg Lawsuit

1/5/2026 1:35pm
rbm33 wrote:
I know this won't be a popular question, but what if the track was actually negligent?  Would anyone that lost a child in this manner say...

I know this won't be a popular question, but what if the track was actually negligent?  Would anyone that lost a child in this manner say, "oh well, it's a dangerous sport".  Just because it a dangerous sport and a sport that we love doesn't make negligence ok. 

Before you flame me, I'm not saying that they were negligent, I'm just saying "What if".

What if they weren’t negligent and it was just a terrible accident and now their name and reputation and source of livelihood is being tarnished? 

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Preston412
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1/5/2026 1:36pm
HonDawg17 wrote:

From what I have been reading, the family was looking for change, not compensation.

What is FOX suppose to change?  

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rbm33
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1/5/2026 1:56pm
rbm33 wrote:
I know this won't be a popular question, but what if the track was actually negligent?  Would anyone that lost a child in this manner say...

I know this won't be a popular question, but what if the track was actually negligent?  Would anyone that lost a child in this manner say, "oh well, it's a dangerous sport".  Just because it a dangerous sport and a sport that we love doesn't make negligence ok. 

Before you flame me, I'm not saying that they were negligent, I'm just saying "What if".

What if they weren’t negligent and it was just a terrible accident and now their name and reputation and source of livelihood is being tarnished? 

I completely agree with you, maybe there was no negligence at all. But for everyone to assume there wasn't and this this is a personal attack on the entire industry is a little short sided. For all anyone knows he could have had a relative major crash and was landed on by other riders due to lack of their being a flagger.

Personally, I hope there was no negligence and that it was just a terrible unavoidable accident. However, at the same time if there was negligence, I hope they are made to make some changes to ensure it doesn't happen again.

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mtbkris2
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1/5/2026 2:05pm

I agree our sport is dangerous and some people are too sue happy. I also think some tracks are legitimately failing at their duty to help keep riders safe, or even actively engaging in dangerous/deadly behaviors. 

I’ve personally seen a few things at the tracks recently that have legitimately put me in doubt if I wanted to continue riding. I watched a EMS cart cross the track on the downside of a jump, blind to oncoming riders (she had plenty of other places to cross) and a rider landed straight onto the cart. The guy was lying on the ground for at least 10 minutes hardly moving. I think in the end he was okay, but this one situation could have very easily changed this dudes life forever, and I wouldn’t blame him if he sued the track for it. 

I’ve seen similar occurrences with water trucks doing pretty much the same thing with oncoming traffic. 

So yeah it’s dangerous, but it doesn’t absolve tracks of their duties 

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The Shop

aees
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1/5/2026 2:18pm

Why not let all the facts come out before we start judging a family that just lost their son. 

zippytech wrote:

Cause that fact is they chose to take him to the track. It started there.

It took them 4min to stop the race. For someone that died on track, thats about 3 min to long.

If time matters in this case or not, is to early to tell. But it for sure tells you everything isn't right. 

And you can take that from someone that has thrown a few red flaggs in races where there has been serious crashes.

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truck
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1/5/2026 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2026 2:40pm
HonDawg17 wrote:

From what I have been reading, the family was looking for change, not compensation.

Not sure what you're reading that gives you that idea, but when it's all said and done let's see if they sign the NDA. They might have went into this convinced they were doing it for the sake of change, but in the end it just ends up being a financial transaction and everyone agrees not to talk about it ever again. Civil lawsuits like this aren't a great mechanism to bring about change. If that's the goal there are far more effective ways to go about it. Ambulance chasers can't take a third of "tracks will now have a flagger every 100 feet." 

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Kenny Banyan
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1/5/2026 3:15pm
The lawsuit disgusts me; we all know the risks.  I even think motocross can't exist with perfectly staffed flagging and safety situations; it would be too...

The lawsuit disgusts me; we all know the risks.  I even think motocross can't exist with perfectly staffed flagging and safety situations; it would be too expensive, so you have to factor that in with where you ride in terms of if you are willing to ride and race where it's not perfect.

One thing to consider is that trauma, especially the loss of a kid, can break apart families and it would just take one parent that wants to sue vs. both parents.  Not saying this is the case, but this may be a good conversation to have with your spouse as to where they stand on track liability.

Just a terrible situation all around.  

 

KennyT wrote:
Yeah we really don’t know what’s going on with the family. It’s one thing losing a child and it’s an even harder traumatic effect when you...

Yeah we really don’t know what’s going on with the family. It’s one thing losing a child and it’s an even harder traumatic effect when you lose them to something you got them into. The heartache, guilt, blame game, what ifs etc 

I lost my 43 year old son around 4 years ago. It was followed by a divorce shortly thereafter to the girl I was with since high school. I’m self employed and my income dropped over 50% for the next few years just from a lack of motivation/depression. At first parents feel they can handle things and then as time goes by the wheels on life can begin unraveling. I see this lawsuit as it’s a time when the family is really beginning to feel the loss and it’s time in their minds to start fighting. Is it right? Of course it’s not the right way to deal with loss. Is it understandable? To most it’s not, to me it is understandable and that is why I will not make  one negative comment about Aiden’s family. 

Sorry for their loss - also sorry for anyone in their lawsuit who are going to face the brunt of a parents grief. 

I hope Mammoth survives along with the parents 

Thanks for sharing this. I’m sorry that you lost your son and the aftermath from that. Wishing you joy and success in the future. 💯👍🏻

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kiwifan
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1/5/2026 3:25pm
shooter88 wrote:

So, actual question that I am genuinely curious about...what is the point of signing a waiver then? 

This !!!! 

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zippytech
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1/5/2026 3:26pm

Shitty all the way around, but for me the word negligence, makes it sound like they did something on purpose. I bet that was not the case, I have seen guys crash and get ran over hundreds of times, and no one got hurt, shit happens, they knew the risk, they knew the flaggers was not NFL refs. but they lined up anyway.

oceantrav
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1/5/2026 3:28pm

I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time. 

My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol 


 

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captmoto
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1/5/2026 4:10pm
soggy wrote:

Great promotion for your track 👍🏻

I’m just being real even if people don’t wanna say it…. Screwing over families like mine that put their entire lives into preserving our sport is...

I’m just being real even if people don’t wanna say it…. Screwing over families like mine that put their entire lives into preserving our sport is wrong… 

Why not let all the facts come out before we start judging a family that just lost their son. 

It's not the Vitard way. It's torches and pitchforks or go sit down.

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1/5/2026 4:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2026 4:35pm
oceantrav wrote:
I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several...

I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time. 

My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol 


 

How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?

Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be mitigated with common sense thinking.

There was no flagger where Aidan crashed. Where Aidan crashed was a remote, non visible section of the course. It took 4 minutes to stop the race. That is not “inherent risk we all accept.” That is negligence.

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aees
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1/5/2026 4:39pm
oceantrav wrote:
I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several...

I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time. 

My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol 


 

There is so much to do in US. That view that you have, is part of why the sport isn't getting that much safer quicker. "Nothing to do, we are aware about the risks so why do anything about it".

No one would give their kid a car without seatbelts, airbags or abs in today. Neither let them drive under the influence or without driver license.

Yet, everybody did it ~50 years ago. Things evolve.

Start with mandatory track safety inspections (at change and every other year), and common track design and obstacle guidance. Official area and track managers, divided/setup after how big the tracks are. With official training for them. Can probably come up with 10 things more that would get US on pair with other "developed MX markets" in terms of safety.

Always a controversial topic because the oldies thinks it will kill the sport.

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aees
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1/5/2026 4:47pm
oceantrav wrote:
I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several...

I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time. 

My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol 


 

How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be...

How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?

Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be mitigated with common sense thinking.

There was no flagger where Aidan crashed. Where Aidan crashed was a remote, non visible section of the course. It took 4 minutes to stop the race. That is not “inherent risk we all accept.” That is negligence.

Some countries already have these requirements, since 20 years. Every flagger should be able to see a rider that is laying down. For example first lap incididents with 40 riders, it's hard to see if someone goes down midpack, until riders clear. But when pack clears, you should be able to see the downed rider and all the way until the next flagger position.

And flagger positions are stationary and mapped to track drawings, numbered. Changing track design or obstacles, you have to do a new track safety inspection for that part.

So basic.

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1/5/2026 4:47pm

As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47? 35? 52? Every 10 feet? See how stupid the argument gets?

And once you bring in the subjectivity, now you just need to make a jury feel bad for losing a kid, and boom, there goes the sport.

How about the fact that it was HIS fault for crashing? Same subjective type argument, but doesn’t tug the heartstrings of a jury.

 

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kiwifan
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1/5/2026 4:57pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2026 4:59pm
I’m just being real even if people don’t wanna say it…. Screwing over families like mine that put their entire lives into preserving our sport is...

I’m just being real even if people don’t wanna say it…. Screwing over families like mine that put their entire lives into preserving our sport is wrong… 

Why not let all the facts come out before we start judging a family that just lost their son. 

captmoto wrote:

It's not the Vitard way. It's torches and pitchforks or go sit down.

it's a forum where we can openly discuss moto topics isn't it ? 

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aees
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1/5/2026 5:14pm
Graybeard wrote:
As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47...

As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47? 35? 52? Every 10 feet? See how stupid the argument gets?

And once you bring in the subjectivity, now you just need to make a jury feel bad for losing a kid, and boom, there goes the sport.

How about the fact that it was HIS fault for crashing? Same subjective type argument, but doesn’t tug the heartstrings of a jury.

 

Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is, since other countries solved this 20 years ago.

You where going to fast was also subjective, until there was speed limits implemented.

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mxjeff575
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1/5/2026 5:24pm

Suing Fox seems delusional.  Seatbelts and airbags both increase the chance of living through an automobile crash.  Yet, in some situations occupants still die.  Could you sue the seatbelt and airbag manufactures?  

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1/5/2026 5:48pm

if no flagger in position on that section of track and he was getting runover for 2 laps???   then they have a case....imho

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rbm33
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1/5/2026 6:07pm

To everyone saying that motocross is a dangerous sport—you’re absolutely right. It is dangerous. And that’s exactly why every possible measure should be taken to make tracks safer.

Anyone who’s ever raced knows what we’ve all seen: sketchy flagging, not enough flaggers, or inexperienced flaggers—often because promoters don’t want to pay for proper staffing. We’ve all come across blind jumps with little to no flag coverage.

So yes, motocross is dangerous. That’s not an argument against improving safety—it’s the strongest argument for it.


 

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DerickYZ
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1/5/2026 6:09pm

I’m going to get shit for it but I’ll say it because I can.


You know the risks of this sport, and death is a risk. You sign forms when entering into practice days, race days. Suing Fox is definitely delusional. This just doesn’t sit right with me.

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tahoefd
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1/5/2026 6:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/5/2026 6:21pm

At 6 pages, it's been mentioned a few times. More flaggers. Better trained flaggers. More medics on scene. Etc.Etc. Bottom line is that it's going to cost more $$$ to run the show. Are you willing to pay more for your potentianlly added safety. Again as mentioned, a day pass at even the small ski resorts are rarely less than $100+. Got to pay to play.

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1/5/2026 6:29pm
Jdog2221 wrote:

Doesn’t the zingg dad make most of his money from the dirtbike industry? 

truck wrote:

Did not realize they were Zing graphics. Had a set of those on my KX60 back in 97-99. They know the sport well…

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1/5/2026 6:36pm

Why not let all the facts come out before we start judging a family that just lost their son. 

What facts do you want clarity on ? 

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oceantrav
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1/5/2026 6:37pm
Graybeard wrote:
As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47...

As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47? 35? 52? Every 10 feet? See how stupid the argument gets?

And once you bring in the subjectivity, now you just need to make a jury feel bad for losing a kid, and boom, there goes the sport.

How about the fact that it was HIS fault for crashing? Same subjective type argument, but doesn’t tug the heartstrings of a jury.

 

aees wrote:
Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is...

Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is, since other countries solved this 20 years ago.

You where going to fast was also subjective, until there was speed limits implemented.

other countries solved it? Doesn't matter what country you ride in, it's just as dangerous. Motocross deaths are not just isolated to the US

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truck
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1/5/2026 6:53pm
oceantrav wrote:
I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several...

I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time. 

My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol 


 

How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be...

How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?

Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be mitigated with common sense thinking.

There was no flagger where Aidan crashed. Where Aidan crashed was a remote, non visible section of the course. It took 4 minutes to stop the race. That is not “inherent risk we all accept.” That is negligence.

So are they disputing the claim that there was a flagger 18 feet away or arguing that this flagger could not see the location of the crash and did not respond? 

4 minutes to stop the race but how long until someone was flagging or on scene alerting the other riders? How long after the crash was he hit? Some amount of time less than 4 minutes obviously. The "4 minutes to stop the race" line keeps getting repeated but lot left to explain in that 4 minutes.

I'm perfectly willing to concede that there may be room for improvement in the response, but I completely reject the notion that a lawsuit is an effective way to promote that change. It bothers me a great deal when people try to muddy the water on this. If safety improvements are the goal, you don't go the route that always ends in NDAs and no admission of wrongdoing. These lawsuits are why everyone circles the wagons every time there's a bad outcome. This is why you don't get a straight answer when things go wrong. You don't get to claim you're doing a thing in the name of safety when the thing you're doing makes it harder to achieve that goal.

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captmoto
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1/5/2026 6:59pm

For those wanting better trained flaggers, what is the standard you would train flaggers to? Now some poor guy that had the training is on the hook in a lawsuit. A promoter or track owner can now shift the blame claiming the flagger had the training and failed at his job. Was told that many times at work. Since you are trained it's now your responsibility.

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OldTech
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1/5/2026 7:12pm

if no flagger in position on that section of track and he was getting runover for 2 laps???   then they have a case....imho

Against every rider that rode past him and didn't notify an official, or stop to help?

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aees
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1/5/2026 8:26pm
Graybeard wrote:
As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47...

As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47? 35? 52? Every 10 feet? See how stupid the argument gets?

And once you bring in the subjectivity, now you just need to make a jury feel bad for losing a kid, and boom, there goes the sport.

How about the fact that it was HIS fault for crashing? Same subjective type argument, but doesn’t tug the heartstrings of a jury.

 

aees wrote:
Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is...

Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is, since other countries solved this 20 years ago.

You where going to fast was also subjective, until there was speed limits implemented.

oceantrav wrote:

other countries solved it? Doesn't matter what country you ride in, it's just as dangerous. Motocross deaths are not just isolated to the US

Of course it matters. Just that you are allowed to mix 50cc and 450cc riders should tell you all you need to know.

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1/5/2026 9:08pm

if no flagger in position on that section of track and he was getting runover for 2 laps???   then they have a case....imho

OldTech wrote:

Against every rider that rode past him and didn't notify an official, or stop to help?

no , definitely not the riders...........

A case against the track management ( I would suggest)  as they could prove negligence of operational procedures..........

Mammoth  has held some big races historically so would need comprehensive insurance coverage which would mean safety procedures/processes to be followed as part of the policy .

 

all imho ...

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