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What if they weren’t negligent and it was just a terrible accident and now their name and reputation and source of livelihood is being tarnished?
What is FOX suppose to change?
I completely agree with you, maybe there was no negligence at all. But for everyone to assume there wasn't and this this is a personal attack on the entire industry is a little short sided. For all anyone knows he could have had a relative major crash and was landed on by other riders due to lack of their being a flagger.
Personally, I hope there was no negligence and that it was just a terrible unavoidable accident. However, at the same time if there was negligence, I hope they are made to make some changes to ensure it doesn't happen again.
I agree our sport is dangerous and some people are too sue happy. I also think some tracks are legitimately failing at their duty to help keep riders safe, or even actively engaging in dangerous/deadly behaviors.
I’ve personally seen a few things at the tracks recently that have legitimately put me in doubt if I wanted to continue riding. I watched a EMS cart cross the track on the downside of a jump, blind to oncoming riders (she had plenty of other places to cross) and a rider landed straight onto the cart. The guy was lying on the ground for at least 10 minutes hardly moving. I think in the end he was okay, but this one situation could have very easily changed this dudes life forever, and I wouldn’t blame him if he sued the track for it.
I’ve seen similar occurrences with water trucks doing pretty much the same thing with oncoming traffic.
So yeah it’s dangerous, but it doesn’t absolve tracks of their duties
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It took them 4min to stop the race. For someone that died on track, thats about 3 min to long.
If time matters in this case or not, is to early to tell. But it for sure tells you everything isn't right.
And you can take that from someone that has thrown a few red flaggs in races where there has been serious crashes.
Not sure what you're reading that gives you that idea, but when it's all said and done let's see if they sign the NDA. They might have went into this convinced they were doing it for the sake of change, but in the end it just ends up being a financial transaction and everyone agrees not to talk about it ever again. Civil lawsuits like this aren't a great mechanism to bring about change. If that's the goal there are far more effective ways to go about it. Ambulance chasers can't take a third of "tracks will now have a flagger every 100 feet."
Thanks for sharing this. I’m sorry that you lost your son and the aftermath from that. Wishing you joy and success in the future. 💯👍🏻
This !!!!
Shitty all the way around, but for me the word negligence, makes it sound like they did something on purpose. I bet that was not the case, I have seen guys crash and get ran over hundreds of times, and no one got hurt, shit happens, they knew the risk, they knew the flaggers was not NFL refs. but they lined up anyway.
I don’t see any real way to make motocross safer. Unless we get rid of jumps, and make the bikes slow as shit. We have several hundred pound bikes racing that are fast as shit, with tons of other bikes that are fast as shit on the track at the same time.
My youngest is 12 and races. Doubt I’ll see his kids race, sport will be done by then because the way society is unfortunately. Maybe I’ll get to watch the grandkids one day race motocross online lol
It's not the Vitard way. It's torches and pitchforks or go sit down.
How about strategically placing flaggers with comms in vulnerable, hard-to-see sections of a motocross track?
Stop excusing motocross as being “dangerous” when the danger can easily be mitigated with common sense thinking.
There was no flagger where Aidan crashed. Where Aidan crashed was a remote, non visible section of the course. It took 4 minutes to stop the race. That is not “inherent risk we all accept.” That is negligence.
There is so much to do in US. That view that you have, is part of why the sport isn't getting that much safer quicker. "Nothing to do, we are aware about the risks so why do anything about it".
No one would give their kid a car without seatbelts, airbags or abs in today. Neither let them drive under the influence or without driver license.
Yet, everybody did it ~50 years ago. Things evolve.
Start with mandatory track safety inspections (at change and every other year), and common track design and obstacle guidance. Official area and track managers, divided/setup after how big the tracks are. With official training for them. Can probably come up with 10 things more that would get US on pair with other "developed MX markets" in terms of safety.
Always a controversial topic because the oldies thinks it will kill the sport.
Some countries already have these requirements, since 20 years. Every flagger should be able to see a rider that is laying down. For example first lap incididents with 40 riders, it's hard to see if someone goes down midpack, until riders clear. But when pack clears, you should be able to see the downed rider and all the way until the next flagger position.
And flagger positions are stationary and mapped to track drawings, numbered. Changing track design or obstacles, you have to do a new track safety inspection for that part.
So basic.
As soon as anyone accepts the argument of “not enough Flaggers” you’ve lost. That is completely subjective, period. There is no right answer. Is it 47? 35? 52? Every 10 feet? See how stupid the argument gets?
And once you bring in the subjectivity, now you just need to make a jury feel bad for losing a kid, and boom, there goes the sport.
How about the fact that it was HIS fault for crashing? Same subjective type argument, but doesn’t tug the heartstrings of a jury.
it's a forum where we can openly discuss moto topics isn't it ?
Its subjective because you dont have a system that controls it. But the solution isn't to give up and say it isn't fixable. Because it is, since other countries solved this 20 years ago.
You where going to fast was also subjective, until there was speed limits implemented.
Suing Fox seems delusional. Seatbelts and airbags both increase the chance of living through an automobile crash. Yet, in some situations occupants still die. Could you sue the seatbelt and airbag manufactures?
Pit Row
if no flagger in position on that section of track and he was getting runover for 2 laps??? then they have a case....imho
To everyone saying that motocross is a dangerous sport—you’re absolutely right. It is dangerous. And that’s exactly why every possible measure should be taken to make tracks safer.
Anyone who’s ever raced knows what we’ve all seen: sketchy flagging, not enough flaggers, or inexperienced flaggers—often because promoters don’t want to pay for proper staffing. We’ve all come across blind jumps with little to no flag coverage.
So yes, motocross is dangerous. That’s not an argument against improving safety—it’s the strongest argument for it.
I’m going to get shit for it but I’ll say it because I can.
You know the risks of this sport, and death is a risk. You sign forms when entering into practice days, race days. Suing Fox is definitely delusional. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
At 6 pages, it's been mentioned a few times. More flaggers. Better trained flaggers. More medics on scene. Etc.Etc. Bottom line is that it's going to cost more $$$ to run the show. Are you willing to pay more for your potentianlly added safety. Again as mentioned, a day pass at even the small ski resorts are rarely less than $100+. Got to pay to play.
Did not realize they were Zing graphics. Had a set of those on my KX60 back in 97-99. They know the sport well…
What facts do you want clarity on ?
other countries solved it? Doesn't matter what country you ride in, it's just as dangerous. Motocross deaths are not just isolated to the US
So are they disputing the claim that there was a flagger 18 feet away or arguing that this flagger could not see the location of the crash and did not respond?
4 minutes to stop the race but how long until someone was flagging or on scene alerting the other riders? How long after the crash was he hit? Some amount of time less than 4 minutes obviously. The "4 minutes to stop the race" line keeps getting repeated but lot left to explain in that 4 minutes.
I'm perfectly willing to concede that there may be room for improvement in the response, but I completely reject the notion that a lawsuit is an effective way to promote that change. It bothers me a great deal when people try to muddy the water on this. If safety improvements are the goal, you don't go the route that always ends in NDAs and no admission of wrongdoing. These lawsuits are why everyone circles the wagons every time there's a bad outcome. This is why you don't get a straight answer when things go wrong. You don't get to claim you're doing a thing in the name of safety when the thing you're doing makes it harder to achieve that goal.
For those wanting better trained flaggers, what is the standard you would train flaggers to? Now some poor guy that had the training is on the hook in a lawsuit. A promoter or track owner can now shift the blame claiming the flagger had the training and failed at his job. Was told that many times at work. Since you are trained it's now your responsibility.
Against every rider that rode past him and didn't notify an official, or stop to help?
Of course it matters. Just that you are allowed to mix 50cc and 450cc riders should tell you all you need to know.
no , definitely not the riders...........
A case against the track management ( I would suggest) as they could prove negligence of operational procedures..........
Mammoth has held some big races historically so would need comprehensive insurance coverage which would mean safety procedures/processes to be followed as part of the policy .
all imho ...
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